Peak Bane vs. Peak-Suit Vader

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Your proof that Yoda dramatically improved is that he went from struggling with a pillar to moving landing crafts.

There's also this: 😉

Originally posted by Rookwood

Imagine if you were bought free passes to a martial arts Dojo - you train there for ten years (Or how about we say, 30) and you attain a multi-degree Black belt rank.

You become amongst the most skilled and experienced members of that Dojo.

- Then you get called off to war.

You fight in a war for three years, as a sort of Front-line commander - you get involved in firefights, and a large share of close-encounters with the enemy, that require hand-to-hand combat.

You return 3 years later.

- In three years, a person can't age much - but they can sharpen their skillset, and learn much more than they had before.

After those three years, not only would you be a better fighter - you would be a considerably better combatant - with your outlook changed, skillset more geared towards combative efficiency.

- That was the Yoda that existed after the Clone Wars.

Beforehand, he hadn't participated in a war; certainly not like the Clone Wars - he was just a highly skilled and powerful Jedi Master.

- After the War, he wasn't rusty anymore, as he had been before, and his skillset was sharpened, and he was more used to fighting powerful and deadly opponents.

Before the war, in a short duel, he was only able to stalemate an equally-rusty Dooku.

- After the war, in a short duel, he was able to disarm a fully-seasoned Darth Sidious.

- That's the difference.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

How much more do 2 Landing Crafts weigh compared with that One Pillar. Then tell me the magnitude of his so called "improvement."

The "reasoning" your using would suggest a power up of a hundred fold.

You know, when that scene came out, originally, I thought it was one of the stupidest things I had ever seen.

Unfortunately though, it's Canon. 😉

It does somewhat highlight the phenomena though, of Yoda and many of the Jedi, becoming more powerful versions of themselves, compared to before the Clone Wars, TPM, etc.

I'm sure there's a few ways the writers would explain Yoda's power, "Because of this/that, blah, blah" - but essentially, it is Canon, and the Clone Wars did increase Yoda's abilities significantly.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

And this is what all your arguments come down to. No proof. No evidence. No facts.

I think the entire PT is proof enough. 😎

You should try watching it sometime. 😉

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

And yet I've not even heard one person agreeing with you.

Arhael just happened to agree with my quote about (Seen at the first post) the Power-Progression that took place comparatively, between the beginning and end of the Clone Wars. 😉

Originally posted by Arhael
Such logic perfectly applies to Kenobi. In AotC he is acomplished Master, yet, Dooku easily defeated him. However, in next three years he improved as much as Anakin.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

I, are the only "Idiot" here.

Well, you're one of them. There are likely a few others around, with Cerebral Palsy like you - truejedi and Ares834 come to mind. 😆

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

I have no respect for canon. And I never once back my opinions up with facts. I'm sure a lot of things are "obvious" to me - if I weren't such a Tard. I should just leave this forum to people who actually refer to canon sources and make actual arguments based on that.weep

Awww.. now don't say that - I think for a mentally-slow person, you have a lot of things to contribute.

Clone Wars, for example is a nice show you can watch - it's Canon (😉 ) and you could can sit down in your momma's lap and eat your mashed baby-carrots, then drink your sippy-cup, and take a nap in your mother's arms. 😆

Wouldn't that be nice?

Ah, to have the innocence of a child like you do. 😄

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

We don't need that "It's Obvious" bull crap over here thank you.

Originally posted by jmoul
you are not knowledgable enough in Star Wars facts and you need to gtfo.

- I think that speaks for itself. 😎 😆

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

No one said he was as fast as Yoda.

Really? 😉

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, the more midichlorians you have the more you can draw on the Force, i.e. the more powerful you can become.

There are exceptions like weird boosts that people get and all sorts of things that can diminish your power, but thats basically it.

No but what I mean is that it is seperate form availability of force energy.

Midi-chlorians - how well you can harness what is there.

With darkside diluted, not as much would be there.

Okay, well with that issue cleared up it seems that the number of Sith having a direct effect on the ability of any singular darksider are just Bane's musings. I was assuming there was something more than that to it that I had somehow missed. The way Drew wrote the book it seems like Bane was "spat out" by the darkside to bring it back into proper balance, though that's more my thoughts based on context and the whole Sith'ari idea that was dropped in the first novel but never spoken of again.

I love the EU saga, but some of the stories lack clarity in spite of all that they add to the overall picture. Perhaps it is just a matter of characterization, but with the way Bane is portrayed he certainly seems equal to Vader in terms of pure speed at his peak, though I do have to say it's unfortunate that we can't gauge the true scope of his Force powers as almost all of his displays are on a darkside nexus or enhance by orbalisks.

The only manifestation of power that wasn't fed by that was his immense lightning while training for only hours on Korriban. However menacing the locale was, Bane specifically states that all the true power of the darkside had fled because the Sith there had become so pathetic. That itself would certainly aid him against Vader.

My take is that this would actually be a close battle. With orbalisks Bane comes out on top every time. Without, it seems pretty even, though I guess Vader has the edge in sabers even with his synthetic limbs. Kas'im was clearly a great swordsman and trained Bane to follow suit; Vader trained both under masters like Yoda and Mace Windu, as well as later under Sidious. Still conflicted a bit as Obi Wan took peak human Vader and was still the greater swordsman when facing him on the Death Star, and I don't forsee Obi Wan surviving Bane.

All out, I have to say Bane because both Vader and Lumiya point on on multiple occasions that their ability with Force techniques is weakened due to their inorganic limbs and organs.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/darth-vader-vs-darth-krayt/609678/?page=3

^This thread has plenty of comic scans of Vader. And none of it includes any of his TFU feats that Tempest posted. Vader is a TK beast.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Arhael just happened to agree with my quote about (Seen at the first post) the Power-Progression that took place comparatively, between the beginning and end of the Clone Wars. 😉

I don't really know how much Yoda improved from AOTC to ROTS; all I can say is that he did. If he didn't hold back against Dooku, he would have owned him in AOTC.

Originally posted by -kV-
I don't really know how much Yoda improved from AOTC to ROTS; all I can say is that he did. If he didn't hold back against Dooku, he would have owned him in AOTC.

Didn't Yoda only "fall" to Dooku in AotC because he had to protect Obi & Anakin from the crap he was tossing, which I believe was a result of him knowing Yoda was about to take him?

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Didn't Yoda only "fall" to Dooku in AotC because he had to protect Obi & Anakin from the crap he was tossing, which I believe was a result of him knowing Yoda was about to take him?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/darth-vader-vs-darth-krayt/609678/?page=3

^This thread has plenty of comic scans of Vader. And none of it includes any of his TFU feats that Tempest posted. Vader is a TK beast.

Also: in the Force battle, Vader takes a clear majority over Bane.

Originally posted by Arhael
Aren't Sith cowards that don't like taking chances with opponents, if they realize that they have no superiority over them? Didn't Sidious try to run away from Yoda as well?

I was speaking to what -kV- said. It was clear in the films that Yoda did not fail in combat against Dooku or Sidious, and that both with sabers and the Force he was superior to Dooku, hence Dooku running rather than facing him even once he was occupied trying to save Anakin and Obi Wan, and that he was a match for Sidious as well.

Please stop bringing Yoda, Dooku, Sidious, and any others that are not to the topic into this discussion.

No.

My topic. My guidelines b*tch

Originally posted by axel_jovan
jawdrop
Man, Vader's feats are insane.
Come to think about it, it’s time to reconsider Vader's place among top ranking Sith. He definitely deserves the hype.

Also: in the Force battle, Vader takes a clear majority over Bane.

You need to understand that Vader is limited in the use of the Force unlike Bane.

Do you think that Bane is limited in the use of TK based aspect of the Force? No. This guy collapsed a large structure (an ancient Temple) during his fight with Kas'im after gathering his power. If depicted visually, everybody will be amazed by such display of power.

Vader failed against Marek due to his limitations and not because of his skill.

It does not makes sense to elevate Vader to the ranks of TOP SITH with his limitations.

I am not saying that Vader would be easy to overcome but Bane has definite edge like Marek.

Peak Bane could kill Sidious - who Vader can't handle.

So it should be pretty obvious that Bane rape-stomps, here.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vader is great with TK because his limitations do not apply to this particular aspect of the Force. However, Vader's limitations prevented him from advancing in his command of the dark side much further. This is why Sidious found him inadequate after his injuries on Mustafar.

You need to understand that Vader is limited in the use of the Force unlike Bane.

Do you think that Bane is limited in the use of TK based aspect of the Force? No. This guy collapsed a large structure (an ancient Temple) during his fight with Kas'im after gathering his power. If depicted visually, everybody will be amazed by such display of power.

Vader failed against Marek due to his limitations and not because of his skill.

It does not makes sense to elevate Vader to the ranks of TOP SITH with his limitations.

I am not saying that Vader would be easy to overcome but Bane has definite edge like Marek.

I doubt you even looked at those scans,considering that being able to deflect a turbo laser, that was shown to smash down an entire star destroyer is probably one of the most impressive things i have seen in the mythos.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
You mean smashing the very structure of 25 000 year old temple is an impressive feat? wasn't this what you were arguing about in that bane vs Revan thread?

Originally posted by shinkoryu
I doubt you even looked at those scans,considering that being able to deflect a turbo laser, that was shown to smash down an entire star destroyer is probably one of the most impressive things i have seen in the mythos.

Can you single out the feat you mentioned?

Even if true, how does this helps Darth Vader against Darth Bane? As I already mentioned before, Darth Vader's martial skills are not in question. His limitations and weaknesses are.

Vader prepared for combat again. His power over the apprentice, however, was gone. His lightsaber went skittering and sparking across the floor, twisted out of his grip by telekinesis. The Force wrenched him into the air, as he had once lifted the apprentice's father, and a barrage of missiles struck at him with increasing strength. He raised his gloved hands to defend himself, but the battery continued until, with a crash, the apprentice ripped the energy field generator in the center of the room right out of the floor and hurled it at his former Master.

The generator exploded with greater force than he had expected, throwing him and everyone else to the floor. The transparisteel dome shattered. Debris rained everywhere. The sound of the explosion rang in his ears for an unnaturally long time afterward.

He was the first to his feet, striding across the rubble to where Darth Vader lay face-forward, gravely wounded and stripped of his armor in places. Flesh and machinery showed through the gaps. Finally, some real blood was flowing. (The Force Unleashed)

Notice the difference here? Gallen Marek was in much better position to shield himself from the impact of the blast which damaged Darth Vader's armor and the latter found himself in disadvantageous position due to this.

Prior to this event, Gallen Marek managed to briefly stop Darth Vader's onslaught with Force Lightning. And this gave the former the opportunity to regain his strength. Darth Bane can do the same, if he also feels the heat.

Darth Bane, as cunning and intelligent he is, may also focus on damaging Darth Vader's armor to gain advantage. Darth Vader is unlikely to overwhelm Darth Bane in a lightsaber duel; the longer the Darth Bane stays; more options he is likely to explore to hurt Darth Vader.