Peak Bane vs. Peak-Suit Vader

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Feat is undoubtedly impressive; if depicted visually, it would impress anybody.

Vader has outdone that many times in the mythos, crumbling down a 20 story building with his scream, collapsing an entire cathedral in an attempt to kill himself etc etc. All these a way more impressive that smashing the foundations of some old rotting temple.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Vader deflected fire from a turret as depicted in one of the images.

Can you single out the feat you mentioned?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Even if true, how does this helps Darth Vader against Darth Bane? As I already mentioned before, Darth Vader's martial skills are not in question. His limitations and weaknesses are.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Notice the difference here? Gallen Marek was in much better position to shield himself from the impact of the blast which damaged Darth Vader's armor and the latter found himself in disadvantageous position due to this.

Theres a huge difference here, learn to actually spot the difference paki.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Prior to this event, Gallen Marek managed to briefly stop Darth Vader's onslaught with Force Lightning. And this gave the former the opportunity to regain his strength. Darth Bane can do the same, if he also feels the heat.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Darth Bane, as cunning and intelligent he is, may also focus on damaging Darth Vader's armor to gain advantage. Darth Vader is unlikely to overwhelm Darth Bane in a lightsaber duel; the longer the Darth Bane stays; more options he is likely to explore to hurt Darth Vader.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
What a hypocrite you are then. One debate you argue how unimpressive it is,and then in another, you change your stance 180 degrees.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Yes.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Deflecting and shielding yourself from a turret thats been shown to take down star destroyers requires an unimaginable amount of skill and reaction time. So yes, not every tom dick and harry can do this.

As per this statement of yours:

Originally posted by shinkoryu
I doubt you even looked at those scans,considering that being able to deflect a turbo laser, that was shown to smash down an entire star destroyer is probably one of the most impressive things i have seen in the mythos.

Yes, the feat is impressive but Darth Vader isn't the only one who could do this.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Do YOU notice the difference? Galen simply shields himself from the blast, while Vader actually got hit by the massive generator physically and had the whole thing blow up on him.

Theres a huge difference here, learn to actually spot the difference paki.

Now check this example:-

Weakened by the blast, the dome's supports gave way. It collapsed into the superlaser dish, triggering a series of conventional explosions. Stormtroopers converged on the site. Through the dense smoke, two figures were visible from the apprentice's rarefied perspective.

Darth Vader struggled to his feet from the rubble, even more damaged than before. He reached out for support and found only his Master, scowling. (The Force Unleashed)

Darth Sidious took the brunt of this blast and he was perfectly fine. In contrast, Vader's armor sustained further damaged.

If tanking abilities of Gallen Marek and Darth Sidious are not sufficient then consider the example of Darth Malgus:-

http://www.swtor.com/info/media/wallpapers/return-3

Darth Malgus got hit by a Starship Engine during his Force augmented leap towards the position of the Jedi Master Kao Cen Darach. Darth Malgus clearly sustained the impact and the resulting blast without any issue.

Much later on, Darth Malgus tolerated a direct hit from a missile and sustained the resulting blast.

Marek, Sidious and Malgus aren't half-machines and demonstrate better durability then Darth Vader against impact of blasts.

Intended point is that Darth Vader's armor can get damaged by dangerous blasts; this can hinder his performance in the duel or even result in his defeat. You need to accept the fact that Darth Vader's armor is also one of his chief weaknesses.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
And whats to stop vader from doing the same vice versa?

Originally posted by shinkoryu
I can say the same for Vader, considering that Vaders display with TK outmaches anything shown by bane along with the fact that you would have to prove that bane would even know of Vaders weakness with the suit.

Also, it doesn't takes a genius to figure out that Darth Vader is half-machine; a vulnerability to be exploited.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Vader has outdone that many times in the mythos, crumbling down a 20 story building with his scream, collapsing an entire cathedral in an attempt to kill himself etc etc. All these a way more impressive that smashing the foundations of some old rotting temple.

As far as the incident of Cathedral is concerned, how much was Vader was injured by this event? How big was this Cathedral as well?

-----

As far as Temple in Lehon is concerned, I admit that it was unmaintained for a long time.

-----

Also, Darth Malgus met a Jedi on Aldeeran who collapsed two buildings on his position in an attempt to crush him. Very impressive, right?

First off i don't even know why the hell are you bringing Malgus into the debate. This is Bane vs Vader, not Malgus vs Vader in taking hits.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Where did I stated that this feat is not impressive?

[b]Correction: He destroyed the entrance of a (unmaintained) Temple in Lehon. And he performed this feat after he gathered his power and channeled it towards the intended target; which did jack to the opponent by the way who isn't even noted much for his command in the Force. Revan laughs.

[/B]

^ You tried to downplay it here, by calling it unmaintained.

Show me then.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

This turret?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

As per this statement of yours:

Does this turret matches the power of Death Star?

Or do you just have so much TOR fanwankery you actually forgot this fact?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Yes, the feat is impressive but Darth Vader isn't the only one who could do this.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

[B]Now check this example:-

Weakened by the blast, the dome's supports gave way. It collapsed into the superlaser dish, triggering a series of conventional explosions. Stormtroopers converged on the site. Through the dense smoke, two figures were visible from the apprentice's rarefied perspective.

Darth Vader struggled to his feet from the rubble, even more damaged than before. He reached out for support and found only his Master, scowling. (The Force Unleashed)

Darth Sidious took the brunt of this blast and he was perfectly fine. In contrast, Vader's armor sustained further damaged.
[/B]

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

[B]If tanking abilities of Gallen Marek and Darth Sidious are not sufficient then consider the example of Darth Malgus:-[/B]

Malgus and Vaders tanking far outweighs that of galen.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

http://www.swtor.com/info/media/wallpapers/return-3

Darth Malgus got hit by a Starship Engine during his Force augmented leap towards the position of the Jedi Master Kao Cen Darach. Darth Malgus clearly sustained the impact and the resulting blast without any issue.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Much later on, Darth Malgus tolerated a direct hit from a missile and sustained the resulting blast.

Marek, Sidious and Malgus aren't half-machines and demonstrate better durability then Darth Vader against impact of blasts.

And no, its very likely that Malgus actually shields himself from the blast, or there would at the very least be tatters on his cape.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Intended point is that Darth Vader's armor can get damaged by dangerous blasts; this can hinder his performance in the duel or even result in his defeat. You need to accept the fact that Darth Vader's armor is also one of his chief weaknesses.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Darth Vader can summon Force Lightning?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Don't you think that Darth Bane can do better at defending himself from explosions? He is not half-machine.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Also, it doesn't takes a genius to figure out that Darth Vader is half-machine; a vulnerability to be exploited.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Raw power can accompany Force screams. Impressive feat indeed.

As far as the incident of Cathedral is concerned, how much was Vader was injured by this event? How big was this Cathedral as well?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Also, Darth Malgus met a Jedi on Aldeeran who collapsed two buildings on his position in an attempt to crush him. Very impressive, right?

paki?

Its an affectionate name for him.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
First off i don't even know why the hell are you bringing Malgus into the debate. This is Bane vs Vader, not Malgus vs Vader in taking hits.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
^ You tried to downplay it here, by calling it unmaintained.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Yep, and do check the scans paki, instead of skimming through it.

Does it have to match the power of the death star paki? Did you actually watch the Original Trilogy with the same turret series taking down an entire star destroyer?

Only Death Star was capable of one-shotting a Star Destroyer, if I recall correctly.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Or do you just have so much TOR fanwankery you actually forgot this fact?

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Show me another force user deflecting a super turbo laser that could take down entire star ships.

What I gather from this feat is that if a Force-wielder really concentrates, s/he can deflect such firepower with a lightsaber. Few may try though.

Jedi have shown that they may stand a chance against Turrets and other heavy weapons such as AT-AT and vice versa. Revan encountered several Turrets inside Star Forge on his way to the position of Bastilla Shan; Luke deflected firepower of AT-AT. Their might be more examples.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
When something is already damaged, it gets even easier to damage further. Try punching a damaged cracked window compared to a normal window, and see which ones easier to smash.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Marek is a piss poor tank if you actually played the game, considering he got stabbed once and then had his brains knocked out by getting slammed on the wall.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
So did Vader if you actually looked at the scans, other than having his cape getting a little torn.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Marek hasn't. And the final blast of energy destroyed an entire tower, kill every stormtrooper in the entire vicinity and barely further damaged his already damaged armor.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
And no, its very likely that Malgus actually shields himself from the blast, or there would at the very least be tatters on his cape.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
It his weakness that has rarely been exploited, heck, go look at the scans, his control box on his chest gets smashed and it does nothing to actually weaken him.

Their are several ways to hurt him. Two mentioned below.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
You don't need to use FL to interrupt attacks paki. TK works just as much, if not even better than a blast of FL.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Show me where an entire bomber class ship blows up in his face, and him walking out as if nothing has happened. Being "Half Machine" in no way indicates he is less capable of defending himself nor does it mean he is able to take any less damage, in fact, it allows him to take even MORE damage. Its his control box and respitory system thats his real weakness, the only weakness that in the whole mythos thats been exploited by Sidious.

The closest example in the context of durability for Bane is from events in Lehon; Kas'im tanked a Temple shattering TK. Bane, whose command of the Force is relatively superior, should be able to do better.

Also, check this:

Marek showed that advantage can be gained against Vader by hurling potentially explosive objects at him. His clone showed that advantage can be gained against Vader with powerful barrage of FL. Bane can exploit Vader in both ways.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Its his suit, that according to you,is his "weakness", the only thing that is his actual weakness is his control box. Which even Galen Marek clone, and the combined power of the sky, his overpowered lightning and 3 supercharged pylons did jack against.(TFU2 interactive scripted scene)

I am not saying that Vader is easy to beat. Obviously, Vader is expected to put up considerable fight but his chances of success are limited against an opponent like Bane. The latter has more options to hurt Vader then the opposite.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Its an affectionate name for him.

I was thinking you meant Pakistani. 😄

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nevermind.

Its maintainers were extinct prior to Bane's visit to the site.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

By how many hits?

Only Death Star was capable of one-shotting a Star Destroyer, if I recall correctly.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Its been long since I rewatched OT movies.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

It would be convenient to know the source featuring Turret related feat. Otherwise, I am dealing with ambiguity here.

What I gather from this feat is that if a Force-wielder really concentrates, s/he can deflect such firepower with a lightsaber. Few may try though.

It takes an extremely powerful force titan to replicate a feat on this kind of scale, not any force wielder can simply do such a feat, what the hell do you think the artist was telling the audience?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Jedi have shown that they may stand a chance against Turrets and other heavy weapons such as AT-AT and vice versa.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Revan encountered several Turrets inside Star Forge on his way to the position of Bastilla Shan; Luke deflected firepower of AT-AT. Their might be more examples.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Difference here is that Vader can shield himself with the Force. He should be able to prevent his damaged armor from getting further damaged. But somehow he doesn't.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

How is this related to tanking explosions?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Hmm! Still he is not invincible in the context of tanking.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Marek gave himself to the Force; hence, the resulting explosion. Also, Sidious was right next to Marek when this explosion occurred. Vader wasn't.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

He suffers some physical injuries but they are superficial.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Well, Bane isn't explored from this angle if I recall correctly.

The closest example in the context of durability for Bane is from events in Lehon; Kas'im tanked a Temple shattering TK. Bane, whose command of the Force is relatively superior, should be able to do better.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Also, check this:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Marek showed that advantage can be gained against Vader by hurling potentially explosive objects at him. His clone showed that advantage can be gained against Vader with powerful barrage of FL. Bane can exploit Vader in both ways.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Well, it isn't necessary to damage Vader's armor fully or heavily to turn the tide of the battle against him; any sort of explosion or event which disturbs Vader, will be sufficient to grant Bane an opening he needs.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I am not saying that Vader is easy to beat. Obviously, Vader is expected to put up considerable fight but his chances of success are limited against an opponent like Bane. The latter has more options to hurt Vader then the opposite.

The only way Bane is going to beat Vader is through a pure saber combat.

Originally posted by axel_jovan
jawdrop
Man, Vader's feats are insane.
Come to think about it, it’s time to reconsider Vader's place among top ranking Sith. He definitely deserves the hype.

Also: in the Force battle, Vader takes a clear majority over Bane.

I'm getting more and more convinced that Vader's TK may very well rival Yoda or Sidious's.

And that it's only his physical limitations that make him inferior to them.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vader is great with TK because his limitations do not apply to this particular aspect of the Force. However, Vader's limitations prevented him from advancing in his command of the dark side much further. This is why Sidious found him inadequate after his injuries on Mustafar.

If Sidious found him "inadequate" then Vader wouldn't have been his apprentice.

He was disappointed because he wanted an apprentice who would eventually surpass him. And that seemed a lot less likely after his injuries.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You need to understand that Vader is limited in the use of the Force unlike Bane.

Do you think that Bane is limited in the use of TK based aspect of the Force? No.

Didn't you just said above that neither is Vader??

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vader failed against Marek due to his limitations and not because of his skill.

Marek was a force beast who was moving star destroyers and disintegrating an entire Frigate. And Vader still pretty much stalemated him in TFUII.

Vader's limitations are mostly physical and psychological. But his Force TK has always been way more impressive since after his injuries. It wasn't even very long after his injuries he began doing Uber TK feats.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I'm getting more and more convinced that Vader's TK may very well rival Yoda or Sidious's.

And that it's only his physical limitations that make him inferior to them.

People are just now starting to understand this particular aspect?

A lot of these youngsters are really making me feel old.

- Vader's TK does and always has rivaled Yoda's and Sidious's TK. I'm not sure why this wasn't obvious to everyone from the start.

It's the whole point of the thing - he's in a mobile-respirator, so his melee capabilities are restricted - but seeing as how he's the Chosen One, has Midichlorians that go beyond Yoda's and has experience using TK all the time just to move his body, I don't see how everyone wouldn't have picked up on all this much sooner.

People tend to underestimate him because of the quote saying that he's only 80& as powerful as Sidious. But yes, he is very powerful with his TK. He's demonstrated better ability with it than Sidious himself iirc. A good example of how someone can be as good or better than someone at an aspect of the Force despite being less powerful.

absolute aids

Bane is invincible.

Vader stomps