Originally posted by ares834
No one really gives any feats there. At all.Don't get me wrong, I do think Bane wins. But it's not a stomp and I don't see anything to suggest he could blitz Vader.
Originally posted by ares834
I'm a Vader fanboy but even I don't see him beating Bane.
Anyway, you don't really need feats, if you just answered your own question.
Originally posted by Nephthys
In the pouring rain he was able to intercept every drop that was going to hit him with his lightsaber and emerge bone dry 30 minutes later. That's really fricking fast.
That it is.
However, Bane has only successfully blitzed the neophyte Sirak in a duel, and that was only after "charging up" for awhile. Plenty of other Jedi and Sith have also been able to react to Bane's attacks such as Zannah and an untrained Cognus. Considering Vader's speed has been compared to Yoda's, I'm having a very hard time seeing him get blitzed here.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
While I'm flattered that you clearly hold my opinion in such high esteem, I'm not in any better position to determine what is and is not canon. Which is one of the few things that you and I have in common with the moderators here, Ushgarak included.
Wrong. The canon policy of this forum is and I quote 'based on simple personal preference'. Yes, we follow the rules of canonicity, but the moderators decide the canon policy and have the authority to apply it as they interpret it.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
The novelization and all three games occupy the same level of canon.
Yes, you've been fricking stating this again and again. Ok, in that case which do you think should take precedence? We can't just say that all versions of events take place because that's contradictory. So how do you solve this smartass?
Originally posted by The_Tempest
The Wii version of events is corroborated in part in the game, Starkiller's duel with Darth Phobos has basis in supplement material by Dan Wallace and the character has an entry in the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia. The truth is that this issue is not nearly as clear cut as you imply, with each version being corroborated at various points.
In this case then the Phobos sections are clearly canon since they are corroborated. That does not however mean that in cases where there is a clear contradiction that the Wii version trumps the X-box version.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
The overwhelming fact is that while the game was completed first as an Xbox game, that doesn't mean the other games are non-canon.
I'm not hearing any differing arguments from you.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
You wished to disregard the novel because of its early release date, I complied. That left the games. Now, despite the fact that the Wii version was released on the same date as the others and has certain threads in common with the novel, you wish to disregard it as well.
This is not out of mere personal preference here. The fact exists that there is conflicts between the versions and we have to decide how to resolve that. Everything that I have said is backed up by logic and evidence. You haven't even offered a counter-argument.
Also, to be frank, you are the one who wanted to use feats from 3 conflicting sources, so forgive me if I don't get flustered at your accusations of having my cake and eating it too.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Even if I agreed to your contortionist-interpretation, that still leaves Vader with the feats of the Xbox/PS3-version, which still keeps him higher than an unaided!Bane in the Force.
Now that is something I will happily debate you over.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Are you suggesting that, if I looked hard enough, I wouldn't find contradictions between a game not developed by LucasArts (KOTOR II) and newer material? If you're wrong, then by the terms you set here, we can disregard the game.
That is complete different. The Wii version is not newer material. It was released at the same time, yet offers a different version of events to the X-box version. I am arguing a way to determine canonicity between those two versions. This issue with TFU is a unique case, and has nothing to do with Kotor 2. There does not exist another version of Kotor 2 that was created by LucasArts. Your point is irrelevent, and misses the point.
Originally posted by ares834
That it is.However, Bane has only successfully blitzed the neophyte Sirak in a duel, and that was only after "charging up" for awhile. Plenty of other Jedi and Sith have also been able to react to Bane's attacks such as Zannah and an untrained Cognus. Considering Vader's speed has been compared to Yoda's, I'm having a very hard time seeing him get blitzed here.
When was Vaders speed compared to Yodas?
Also, its made clear that if not for the BM, Bane would have blitzed his opponents in ROT.
And I would hardly call Sirak a neophyte.
lol @ you trying to equate KMC moderators with LucasFilm authorities in a desperate attempt to curry a favorable decision.
Because the games were released on the same day and occupy the same level of canon and all receive corroboration of some sort, I'll continue to regard them as equally valid sources from which to draw.
As for the rest, the bottom line is that I don't recognize you or anyone else here as a credible authority to determine canon. You can argue all you want in an effort to save your favorite character's ass here, but my cooperation with this silliness ended a while back.
If you'd like to debate Vader's feats vis a vis Bane's, we can as friends and lovers. But I'll just ignore the rest.
I'm not doing that. I'm merely point out that on this forum the moderators have authority.
And I'll continue to ignore all feats from the Wii version then I guess. awermm
Btw, I'm not trying to save Banes ass. I haven't even looked at the feats you posted in detail, but I'm sure I could poke holes in them.
Originally posted by Nephthys
When was Vaders speed compared to Yodas?
"It happened before he could get out another word. Faster than an eyeblink. Faster than he'd seen anyone move, anyone except Yoda. The lightsaber hadn't been there, and then it was, and the lightsaber was a blur. Vader moved without seeming to move, and the lightsaber sliced into Roan, straight into his chest. Straight into his heart."
BTW, Vader has also blitzed Aurra Sing before.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Also, its made clear that if not for the BM, Bane would have blitzed his opponents in ROT.
Quote?
What I remember happening is Bane charged the Jedi. Rastka then unleashed a flurry of attacks on Bane, but they were deflected by the Orbalisks. Farfalla was shocked that Bane was not cut down and would have been trampled were it not for the BM.
Originally posted by ares834
"It happened before he could get out another word. Faster than an eyeblink. Faster than he'd seen anyone move, anyone except Yoda. The lightsaber hadn't been there, and then it was, and the lightsaber was a blur. Vader moved without seeming to move, and the lightsaber sliced into Roan, straight into his chest. Straight into his heart."BTW, Vader has also blitzed Aurra Sing before.
I doubt Roan Shryne has ever seen Yoda fight before. So I don't really put much stock in that comparison. Which isn't really even a comparison. Who knows who he's actually seen fight.
Originally posted by ares834
Quote?What I remember happening is Bane charged the Jedi. Rastka then unleashed a flurry of attacks on Bane, but they were deflected by the Orbalisks. Farfalla was shocked that Bane was not cut down and would have been trampled were it not for the BM.
Yes. The text notes that if it wasn't for the BM Farfalla wouldn't have survived Banes initial charge, and given that Raskta only got away 'at the last possible moment', it can be argued that this was the case for her as well.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I doubt Roan Shryne has ever seen Yoda fight before. So I don't really put much stock in that comparison. Which isn't really even a comparison. Who knows who he's actually seen fight.
Really? Last time I brought it up you seemed quite impressed.
"A speed comparison to Yoda is high praise. Even I didn't know Vader had that in him."
Why the sudden change of heart?
😛
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes. The text notes that if it wasn't for the BM Farfalla wouldn't have survived Banes initial charge, and given that Raskta only got away 'at the last possible moment', it can be argued that this was the case for her as well.
That was after Rastka had "blitzed" Bane so clearly she had ample time to react to Bane's attack. If she had cut him down like she expected she wouldn't have needed to avoid the attack in the first place. So Bane's supposed near blitz wasn't due to speed but his orbalisks which he doesn't have hear.
As for Farfalla, we've had this argument before. Regardless, Vader blitzing Aurra Sing is more impressive as Sing actually has feats to her name.
Spoiler Ahead
Originally posted by ares834
"It happened before he could get out another word. Faster than an eyeblink. Faster than he'd seen anyone move, anyone except Yoda. The lightsaber hadn't been there, and then it was, and the lightsaber was a blur. Vader moved without seeming to move, and the lightsaber sliced into Roan, straight into his chest. Straight into his heart."
I read Dark Lord: The rise of Darth vader (I own it, too, actually but I need to find it) and If I recall correctly, he died from blunt-force damage sustained from fighting Vader - but Vader did not stab his lightsaber into his heart or anything.
Is the excerpt you provided taken from one of Roan's nightmares or something?
Also, it's been well documented that Vader is slow as molasses - he's not as fast as his Pre-suit self; not as fast as RotJ Luke, and not as fast as Yoda.
And also - regardless of what happened in ROT with Bane - by the final book, he's fast enough to dodge and block every raindrop in a pouring storm - for 10 minutes.
Not only is he faster than Vader - that feat by the end of tenure as a Dark Lord possibly surpasses Yoda's speed - and certainly surpasses them both in stamina and endurance.
Bane has the solid edge, here.
Originally posted by RookwoodAlso, it's been well documented that Vader is slow as molasses -
Where has that been well documented??
I seriously doubt it considering Lucas himself has stated him to be 80% as Powerful as The Frigging Emporer.
I doubt he would be anything close to 80% if he was "slow as molasses."