Peak Bane vs. Peak-Suit Vader

Yep. People seem to think that old people being able to use the force to remain fit is the rule and not the exception, and this is not the case. The like of Vader and Old Ben are as slow as their physical condition, force or no force, and George has onfirmed this multiple times. Not every old force user is a count dooku or yoda, who are not only great force users but have trained extensively in this use of the force. Vader is a shadow of his former self, his mech suit is far more hindrance than simply just frail bpody, and he didnt really rtrain extensively on his force speed, instead focusing on strength. The vader we see in originl trilogy is hiow slow he really is.

So among the powerful Jedis and Siths hes among the weaker ones with a saber, and somebody like Bane would be able to blitz him.

Originally posted by ares834
Except I wasn't responding to that.

Anyway, what feats does Bane have that suggest he could blitz someone of Vader's caliber?

TUF events are of questionable canon, TUF feats and pwoers are of definite N canon status, as it is a videogame that was designed to show the forc ein a unrealstic ways and the developers have stated that they was exaggerated, much like clone wars cartoon. Almost every character that appears in other media is shown doing stuffs they can never do outside of it.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Where has that been well documented??

Also, it's been well documented that Vader is slow as molasses - he's not as fast as his Pre-suit self; not as fast as RotJ Luke, and not as fast as Yoda.

So you're saying he is as fast as RotS Anakin, RotJ Luke (who blitzed him) and as fast as Yoda?

Where has that been shown?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

I seriously doubt it considering Lucas himself has stated him to be 80% as Powerful as The Frigging Emporer.

- Yeah, in Force ability, Moron.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

I doubt he would be anything close to 80% if he was "slow as molasses."

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lucas also responded to a question about why the fight Vader and Kenobi were so unimpressive in ANH by suggesting that Vader's cybernetics hindered him iirc.

In comparison to their former selves. I think most people agree ROTS Anakin is above OT Vader in Sabers at least.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Also, it's been well documented that Vader is slow as molasses - he's not as fast as his Pre-suit self; not as fast as RotJ Luke, and not as fast as Yoda.

So you're saying he is as fast as RotS Anakin, RotJ Luke (who blitzed him) and as fast as Yoda?

Where has that been shown?

When did I say he's as fast as Anakin or Yoda?? Learn to read.

As for Luke, I have no recollection of him Blitzing Vader. Unless your really using the Temporarily Rage Enhanced Luke as evidence.

Being slowER than ROTS Anakin and Yoda does not make one slow in comparison to everyone else.

Originally posted by Rookwood
- Yeah, in Force ability, Moron.

Oh look, Rockwood is back to his childish debating routine.

He never said "In Respect to Force TK ONLY!"

He was talking about why Vader couldn't overthrow the Emperor in comparison to how Powerful he could have been if not for his injuries.

So it's obviously to do with power applicable for combat purposes.

Originally posted by Rookwood
He was weighed down by armor that weighed hundreds of Lbs, you Idiot. doh

So was Grievous. Didn't seem to slow him down.

Originally posted by Darth _Sadow1
How is TFU not canon? If it is an actual game that was approved by Lucas Arts, it is automatically canon unless another Lucas Arts title disproves it....

It has multiple endings and you can kill Luke, Han, Chewie and Leia?

Hey its you!

Greetings fight fan. 😄

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
It has multiple endings and you can kill Luke, Han, Chewie and Leia?

That's only in the alternate dark side ending, which is of course not canon. It is however a valid alternate version of events which Starkiller has seen in visions.

Originally posted by Rookwood
And also - regardless of what happened in ROT with Bane - by the final book, he's fast enough to dodge and block every raindrop in a pouring storm - for 10 minutes.

Not only is he faster than Vader - that feat by the end of tenure as a Dark Lord possibly surpasses Yoda's speed - and certainly surpasses them both in stamina and endurance.

Bane has the solid edge, here.

It's not from Dark Lord. The quote was from a different book, had a different Roan and was from the perspective of Ferus Olin.

Anyway, once again I don't think Vader will beat Bane. And certainly not in sabers but at the same time I don't see him getting stomped and certainly not blitzed.

ares834
Anyway, once again I don't think Vader will beat Bane.

Be a role model for the Bane faction and explain why, my son.

Even if you guys wanted to use all the stuff from tfu and the other stuff that he couldnt do in the movies, at best you can argue that vader beats him in just one areA - TELKINESIS, BUT EVen that is doubtful and at very least bane will rival him. However, bane on the other hand has extreme speed feats, can use force storm, not to mention the sith sorcery he apparently uses in the third book. and this is when we cripple bane without orbaliskjs. So how does vader, who by comparison is basically a one trick pony, comapres in the lsightest?

Okay, enough is enough. STOP DEBATING THE CANONOCITY OF TFU AND STAY ON TOPIC. If you are citing Vader's feats, realize that TFU is meant to be greatly exaggerated in terms of Force capabilities, and not just for Starkiller. So, from here on, no more debating that point.

Easy, my son.

For what it's worth (and it's worth a lot, I know), I personally find TFU's powers to be out of place with higher canon. But then I think that about anything bar the films and the 3D series.

That said, canon is canon and inconsistencies among feats is an enduring problem for this franchise.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
When did I say he's as fast as Anakin or Yoda?? Learn to read.

Originally posted by Rookwood

Also, it's been well documented that Vader is slow as molasses - he's not as fast as his Pre-suit self; not as fast as RotJ Luke, and not as fast as Yoda.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Where has that been well documented??

If you question/disagree with what I posted, Dumbass, it means you take the opposite position of my statement.

So I say, he's not as fast as Anakin, Yoda, etc - and you ask where that's been shown, showcasing either that you haven't watched the trilogies, or you're just a complete idiot.

You learn to read.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

As for Luke, I have no recollection of him Blitzing Vader. Unless your really using the Temporarily Rage Enhanced Luke as evidence.

Oh, **** - what a stretch - using a combat-related feat to demonstrate my point about Luke's speed in a duel.

Yes, stupid ****, I'm really using the scene of where Luke blitzed Vader in a duel - to exemplify Luke being faster than Vader in a duel.

Are you in a room with enough oxygen to supply your brain - or do you need to move to a more-ventilated room?

If you got a laptop - take it outside in the fresh air, and type out there.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Being slowER than ROTS Anakin and Yoda does not make one slow in comparison to everyone else.

But it does make him slower than Bane, which is crucial here.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Oh look, Rockwood is back to his childish debating routine.

He never said "In Respect to Force TK ONLY!"

He was talking about why Vader couldn't overthrow the Emperor in comparison to how Powerful he could have been if not for his injuries.

So it's obviously to do with power applicable for combat purposes.

Dumbass.

Vader's armor weighed him down so much - that he needed to use the Force constantly - just to merely move.
This means Vader relying on exerting TK on himself almost constantly.

So he's always weighed down, and never at "full strength" because of his body and the armor over it.

So when he's constantly exerting Force energy just to do regular things that say, Obi-wan or Luke, wouldn't need to exert any Force power to do - Vader needs needs it just to walk - let alone run or blitz anyone.

Thanks to that predicament - he would rarely ever be at "full strength".

This is especially worse for Vader, if the theory about many of his Midichlorians being burned out after Mustafar are true - because then he would have even less "organs" to draw the Force through - thus making his constant strain of Force-usage even more taxing.

So unfortunately for Vader - being 80% of Sidious, doesn't do jack for his speed - because of his taxing and cumbersome situation.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

So was Grievous. Didn't seem to slow him down.

The core of Vader's body - was Flesh.

That means, weakened, burned, flesh and muscles, straining to constantly lift up limbs and armor, made of metal that weighed hundreds of Lbs.

So then the Force is utilized almost constantly to make this work, draining him.

- Grievous' body on the other hand, is a metallic-frame, with a brain, and a gut-sack.

- But, the core frame, is metal - so when arms and legs move, all the stress and strain is directed to the center, which is just as durable and strong, naturally, as the limbs moving under it's power.

So when Grievous' frame, because of it's design and composition, is perfectly capable of moving under it's own power, without strain or stress to itself in the process - and more importantly, no strain to Grievous's muscles (unlike Vader) because he has none - then he's essentially free to move as fast as he wants, because his, essentially, metal-body, will never tire.

Add to the fact that Grievous' arms (unlike Vader's) are designed to move cyclically and spin at incredible speeds (generating the 26 swings per second).

Vader's body is essentially weighed down - making him incapable of moving at pure speeds as great as Zonakin or Yoda - and constantly draining himself of the Force, just to be able to move under his own power.

Grievous, for obvious reasons, is not bound to these stipulations, and is a different can of worms (no pun intended) altogether.

Ares has provided a credible argument against the myth of Vader's lethargy; TFU's novelization also has a scene wherein, during the final battle, Starkiller is astonished by Vader's speed. He may or may not be faster than Bane, but there you are.

The only problem is in the movies, Vader never tries. Against Obi-Wan, he wants to show off how in control he is. Against Luke, he doesn't want to kill his son. Even the second time, he doesn't want to kill Luke. If he did, he could easily TK Luke. The only times we see of him try is in the EU, where everything is exaggerated.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I seriously doubt it considering Lucas himself has stated him to be 80% as Powerful as The Frigging Emporer.

I doubt he would be anything close to 80% if he was "slow as molasses."

The most commonly stated claim regarding Vader's strength; and yet I have no luck in finding the actual quote or interview of Lucas - funny.

Agreed with S W Legend.

Originally posted by Rookwood
If you question/disagree with what I posted, Dumbass, it means you take the opposite position of my statement.

You are very stupid.

Originally posted by Rookwood
So I say, he's not as fast as Anakin, Yoda, etc - and you ask where that's been shown, showcasing either that you haven't watched the trilogies, or you're just a complete idiot..

When did I say he's as fast as ROTS Anakin or Yoda Dumbo??

I was arguing against saying Vader is Slow Just Because You Say So!

Originally posted by Rookwood
Oh, **** - what a stretch - using a combat-related feat to demonstrate my point about Luke's speed in a duel.

Yes, stupid ****, I'm really using the scene of where Luke blitzed Vader in a duel - to exemplify Luke being faster than Vader in a duel.

Are you in a room with enough oxygen to supply your brain - or do you need to move to a more-ventilated room?

If you got a laptop - take it outside in the fresh air, and type out there.

Yeah and Padawan Obi-Wan matched Maul in a rage enhanced state, and Savage Opress was overpowering Dooku and Ventress together in a similar state.

What's your point?

Oh that's right your too dumb to make one.

Oh and for the record Vader was clearly not going all out against his son. But that's not something I'd expect you to pick up on.

Originally posted by Rookwood
But it does make him slower than Bane, which is crucial here.

No it doesn't.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Vader's armor weighed him down so much - that he needed to use the Force constantly - just to merely move.
This means Vader relying on exerting TK on himself almost constantly.

Where did you make this up from?

I like how your making all these bull crap claims without once quoting a source.

Originally posted by Rookwood
So unfortunately for Vader - being 80% of Sidious, doesn't do jack for his speed - because of his taxing and cumbersome situation.

If he was as slow as your making out he would not be even close to 80% of the Emperor.

Originally posted by Rookwood
The core of Vader's body - was Flesh.

Doesn't matter. The mechanical limbs would have A LOT of strength to move around fast.

Otherwise by your absurd theory I'd have to assume ROTS Anakin moves his mechanical arm very slowly because it weighs so much.

So just stop this bull crap now Dumbo!

Working over the weekend; probably won't get to reply for a while.