Originally posted by Silent MasterThor broke Mjolnir hitting Ulik. Thor with a small portion of the OF broke Mjolnir on Bor. It might be other times as well, I have to see.
When has Mjolnir been broken by "less force"?BTW, can you prove that the forging process was the same, that they had the exact same enchantments on them and that the skyfather's used the same amount of power?
According to the logic of Silent, you must prove it was a different forging process (and if that's makes a difference with Uru metal).
Also where is it stated in comics that the enchantment affects the durability of the hammer?
Originally posted by h1a8
He lifted it when both Thor and Herc fought switching roles. Or was that a fake Mjolnir?
Billy is brave, noble, etc. What characteristic that Thor and Cap have that Billy or Freddie don't have?Parker is selfish and arrogant. I don't know much about Balder (did he try to lift Mjolnir before?)
You mean Hercuthor and Thorcules? 😬
Billy is a good kid but is too naive and innocent to be worthy of Mjolnir. He doesn't have a warrior's heart like either Thor or Steve. Parker's not selfish and arrogant. He has moments where those traits show themselves, but as a whole, he's a great human being. Balder is esssentially the most noble, most liked, and adored Asgardian. Literally everyone - including the animals and nature itself (barring mistletoe) - loves him. He's a formidable warrior, but he's considered to be the shining light of Asgard. And he can't lift Mjolnir by his and others own accounts.
Originally posted by h1a8
I say it does mean he can break Mjolnir though.
How so? You can't prove Serpent = Odin (especially when it was shown already that Odin > Serpent) nor that their enchantments were equal.
Originally posted by h1a8
Same material and enchanted by a skyfather and writer's intentions and Mjolnir has been broken by lesser force before. Follower of Jake
Skyfathers aren't made equal, especially Odin and Serpent. Fraction, the guy who wrote Fear Itself, also clearly showed us that Odin was beyond the likes of the Serpent power wise in spite of him not being able to be the one to perma-kill him. lol @ "follower of Jake", though. 👆
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I'm a little confused.If Thor and Hercules are both of equal strength,
and Thor and Hercules are both sons of Skyfathers with equal godly rank --
why [b]shouldn't
Hercules be able to lift Mjolnir?He's effectively the Greek equal and counterpart of Thor, right?
Or are the "worthiness" enchantments by Odin still harder to get past than that?
And if even Hercules is unworthy, what happened in the case of Storm and Beta Ray Bill? [/B]
Because lineage, strength, and power aren't the prerequisites for lifting Mjolnir? Hercules has his moments of being a noble selfless hero, but nine times out of ten, he's a drunk womanizing braggart with questionable moments of honor. He's an awesome character, don't get me wrong, but he's not worthy like Bill or Captain America is.
Storm just had a bastardized copy of Mjolnir not the real thing.
Originally posted by h1a8
Thor broke Mjolnir hitting Ulik. Thor with a small portion of the OF broke Mjolnir on Bor. It might be other times as well, I have to see.According to the logic of Silent, you must prove it was a different forging process (and if that's makes a difference with Uru metal).
Also where is it stated in comics that the enchantment affects the durability of the hammer?
...
When did Thor break Mjolnir hitting Ulik? Bor was stated by the writer - seeing as how you're all over writer's intent - to be harder than Mjolnir. That's a crazy feat for Bor. It was also broken by the Destroyer Armor, Perrikus (who had been amped), shattered by Thor's own internal energies, and warped by Molecule Man.
Thor is able to crush normal uru. He can't do the same to enchanted uru, let alone uru enchanted by Odin.
facepalm
Originally posted by h1a8
Thor broke Mjolnir hitting Ulik. Thor with a small portion of the OF broke Mjolnir on Bor. It might be other times as well, I have to see.
OF Thor isn't an examples of "less force"
According to the logic of Silent, you must prove it was a different forging process (and if that's makes a difference with Uru metal).Also where is it stated in comics that the enchantment affects the durability of the hammer?
IOW, you have nothing to indicate they are of the same durability. BTW, Thor has crushed normal Uru in his hands before
Originally posted by h1a8
Correct. Well writer had Nul breaking adamantium with less effort and the enchanted Uru hammer with far more effort. And it didn't seem as if the writer wrote Mjolnir>>>the enchanted Uru hammer's.
Matt Fraction wrote Odin being > Serpent and Thor being > the Worthy (barring Nul whom he still BFRed with a single blow and not being 100%).
This writer intent argument would be nice if you actually read these stories.
Originally posted by zopzopI can see that or the hammer could have just missed all together and it was just an illusion too. Given it was in mephisto realm it is very possiable he held the hammer then again when Loki planted the sword that could kill off Bor's hand maidens I thought Mephisto couldn't weld it either i have to look back
That was what I was saying when I saw that. But that doesn't explain where the hammer was inbetween the time Thor threw it and it traveled back to his hand.Even if the slagging was an illusion, the grasping and holding it must have been real. Otherwise the hammer would have returned to Thor's hand. It didn't return until Mephisto himself threw it back to Thor.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Please don't twist my words. You wouldn't like me when you twist my words.
It's hard sometimes to tell when you're serious.
Certainly no one should be misrepresented as a general rule; I'd like to think I'm fairly good at avoiding doing that in most if not all cases.
I didn't think what I wrote was twisting what you said;
rather just stating it in the most generic format.
I certainly wasn't trying to misrepresent, only trying to make the point that, sometimes, what we see on panel ISN'T what's really happening.
That old 1978 showing of Hulk crushing Mjolnir, for instance, is something that is shown on panel.
Except, it isn't.
Going by that panel and the other panels of that scan, you might think "Whoa! Either Marvel writers REALLY gave Hulk props back in the day, or they were smoking something! Hulk CRUSHED THOR'S HAMMER!"
He didn't. That's actually an imaginary sequence occurring in Hulk's own mind, with Doc Samson "there" as an observer.
If you just went by what is shown "on panel" via that scan, you might come to the wrong conclusion.
Originally posted by -Pr-
How is melting debatable when he does it on panel?
The above is your actual, action-specific question.
It was being debated just a few posts before me.
And the REASON it was being debated is because you left out 1 important consideration when you asked that:
Mephisto is a master of deceit, lies, and illusion.
You can't always trust what you see with him.
I remember a story entitled "Mephisto versus The X-Men", for instance.
For whatever reason, Meph decided to harass the team.
Got them on edge and warned he would be coming for them.
They decided to patrol the grounds, splitting up of necessity, but with strict orders to contact the rest of the team to try to deal with Meph if any single person encountered him.
Mephisto targeted Rogue. He offered her what she really wanted: The chance to be touched intimately. Her power had not been eliminated, though, so she could still read his thoughts when they kissed a moment later. She discovered a large portion of his hidden plan.
He intended to take the souls of the X-Men even after accepting Rogue's willing sacrifice. Mephisto told Rogue he did not think her power would be so effective. Not only could she read his thoughts, the contact also apparently weakened him. But he could teleport away and pick off the OTHER X-Men if he couldn't get her ...
Rogue races to save her teammates. She reasons that her power enables her to temporaily to take everything that makes a person a person, that she can therefore effectively take and safekeep the souls of her teammates for a time by physically touching them, at least until she can stumble upon a way to permanently protect them from Meph.
Her plan almost works; she's strong enough to overpower or trick her allies despite resistance from the most formidable because she takes them one by one. She manages to outrace Mephisto at every turn and at one point even launches him through the roof of the X-Mansion with a powerful double uppercut.
The X-Men are safe! The day is won ...!
Except, of course ... it's not.
Mephisto lied. Rogue DID read his thoughts. But only part of them.
The part of them that he ALLOWED her to read. Everything she got was correct except that her power could only affect Mephisto to the point he WANTED her power to affect him. Meph WANTED Rogue to do precisely what she did. Because her desperate attempt at true heroism insured that she would collect their souls for him. And then Meph simply took her and claimed them all. Which he could NOT have done without Rogue's help. Because he could claim but one unoffered soul by some divine law known only to Marvel Comics, but, of course, he didn't tell Rogue that when it would have helped. And he was going along with Rogue punching him out of the estate. She WAS stronger than normal by that point, but, as Mephisto pointed out himself, he is the embodiment of human evil. Physical strength alone can't destroy that, or him.
At any rate, Mephisto is a liar, deceiver, master illusionist, and actor.
Whereas seeing a thing on-panel is usually sufficient proof in the average case, it is often NOT a good guide in dealing with him.
Maybe he can lift the hammer, maybe he did.
Maybe not.
Given who he is, it IS indeed debate-able.
Certainly, if he DID employ the level of subterfuge typical in his stories, the little bit we saw represented by the scans posted in this thread isn't much in the way of proof.
Taking such an action at face value ignores who Mephisto is and what he does.
Carver was right to raise the objection.
Originally posted by Silent Master
The Hulk's personality is basically that of a 3 year-old throwing a temper tantrum, he’ll never be worthy. And for some reason that seems to upset the Hulk’s fanboys. 😇
Originally posted by janus77
He doesn't need to be "worthy", he just smashes Odin, rips his beard right-off his face and shoves it in Thor's mouth to shut him up. Then picks up the hammer and throws it into Eternity's bum hole... Never to be recovered.
The Hulk then wakes up and proceeds to cry for the next 12 hours when he realizes it was just a dream.
Originally posted by janus77
Hulk doesn't ever need to lift it. Thor's always kind enough to let Hulk borrow it... And knock Thor out.
😂
Thor knows Hulk needs it. Hulk's been jealous for so long it causes him pity.
Get back to me when that one dimensional character makes Galactus shart in his pants hee hee.