@ Brosmash
Power levels does mean something. Goku hit Frieza with the Kamehameha times TWENTY (the Kamehameha times 3 had enough power to destroy earth) and Frieza tanked the attack. Moon busting doesn't mean a thing to a DBZ character durability just like planet busting doesn't either. The issue come into play when they are blasted by someone more powerful than them.
Well, consider this. Frieza has 5 forms.
1st Form(tiny one in the chair)
2nd Form(Bigger version of 1st form, looks like King Cold)
3rd Form(That big...weird looking thing)
4th Form(When he gets small again and gets more "streamlined"😉
100%(he gets stronger and more muscle mass without sacrificing speed.)
Now, 1st Form Frieza has a power level of 530,000.
2nd Form's power level jumps to over 1,000,000.
3rd Form isn't stated.
Final Form has him roughly around 10,000,000. He jumps up to 60,000,000 at 50%, and 120,000,000 at 100%
Now considering 1st form is only 530,000, and it was that form that he used to easily destroy Planet Vegeta... I think his math is solid.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Where did you get the "less than a third of their power" from?
Roshi destroyed a planetary body (i.e. the moon) with a power level of about 139 and Both Goku and Piccolo start off the show roughly 3 times that strong.
Although, I suppose... you're right... since those are base levels I'm referring to and they both reach an excess of 1,300-1,400 on the PL system... so sure... I suppose "less than a third of their power" was inaccurate. I meant roughly less than a tenth. 😐 Happy now?
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Again, where are you pulling these numbers from?
And again.. Math...
As KingD has pointed out to you by now Frieza has an "official" power level of 120 million at 100%. His first form blows up planet Vegeta and everyone on it, and it's a form that maxes out at 530,000. So, at his max first form Frieza would STILL only be using about .44% of his total power... I think we can all agree that incinerating a planet, while sitting in a hover-chair, laughing is ass off, and using a single finger to do it is far from going "all out".... 🙄
So consider this.... Roshi busted a moon, at 139.
Typical assessments for how many moons would fit in the Earth are in about the 49-50 range... but we'll give you 50 just to be nice.
So if we say that Roshi's moon busting attack was his total max on destructive capability.. (which is again... quite generous to you since we never see a cap and what he *couldn't* do), and 50 moons equal 1 Earth. Then, these characters would only have to be in the PL range of 6950, to destroy the Earth. (This is again being incredibly generous seeing the difference that even 1,000 makes in fights etc but whatever).
So we know that Frieza doesn't need more than about 7000 to dust a planet.
Which is 1.3% of his first form's max power, and .00583% (which is *actually* .00579% if we don't round up to 7,000 and *ACTUALLY ACTUALLY* only .00567% if we don't give you the benefit of the doubt on that extra moon) of his 100% forth form max power total... So you were right again, annnnnd that's even WORSE than I assumed off the top of my head!
You're not helping your case by making me to the actual math here. 😬
Originally posted by Bro SMASHOh you don't have to! That's the beautiful part about this whole math thing (you should try it out some time)! You necessarily HAVE to believe that Frieza and Goku are attacking eath other with less than .005 percent of their respective power by the time they start fighting.... just by numbers alone. Tell me... can you throw a microsecond punch using less than .005 percent of your full strength?.... Cause that's what you're argument tends to lend itself. I guess that's what we were watching Frieza do the whole time he fought Goku. 🙄 😂
And I didn't say Freiza held back during the entire fight. He DID held back at certain parts, like at the beginning.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Talking out of my ass? You're the one who's pulling all of these random numbers out of nowhere (seriously, a "hundreds of times stronger"?). And Goku always stops a planet busting blast with his own blast. Don't know which part about Freiza you're talking.You need to grow up and stop throwing insults. You sound like an obsessed fanboy right now.
Yes... If you think that these characters are fighting each other using less than a fraction of a PERCENT of their actual limit then you are INDEED sir... absolutely talking out of your ass.
You can't just arbitrarily *decide* that one of the main premises/tropes that the series INTRODUCED itself with as relevant simply does not matter because you don't agree with it. Power levels matter, and if you think that these characters are intending to kill each other using less than 1% of their power, then you sir, ARE an idiot. I *would* be less insulting if I hadn't already felt offended *by* your absurd argument. Frankly, it's insulting to anyone who watched the show and didn't buy into the plot holes more than they did the plot.
Obsessed fanboy? Hardly. Fan who actually watched the show, understands the concepts of tropes, comprehends the matter of plot holes, and has a basic grasp of grade-school mathematics? Youbetcha.
Now.... GTFO. 😎
Originally posted by NemeBro
It requires a thousand times the energy to destroy the moon than it takes to destroy Earth, last I heard.And only fools actually combine math and the power level system to powerscale.
Originally posted by carver9
@ BrosmashPower levels does mean something. Goku hit Frieza with the Kamehameha times TWENTY (the Kamehameha times 3 had enough power to destroy earth) and Frieza tanked the attack. Moon busting doesn't mean a thing to a DBZ character durability just like planet busting doesn't either. The issue come into play when they are blasted by someone more powerful than them.
Power levels are only good in seeing who can beat up who. That's it. It's not like Marvel's power grid or anything. And you really can't say for sure if a character has moon busting durability. Seeing that their durabilities do increase, it's possible but there's no clear evidence confirming it.
Originally posted by jinzin
Math... 😕Roshi destroyed a planetary body (i.e. the moon) with a power level of about 139 and Both Goku and Piccolo start off the show roughly 3 times that strong.
Although, I suppose... you're right... since those are base levels I'm referring to and they both reach an excess of 1,300-1,400 on the PL system... so sure... I suppose "less than a third of their power" was inaccurate. I meant roughly less than a tenth. 😐 Happy now?
And again.. Math...
As KingD has pointed out to you by now Frieza has an "official" power level of 120 million at 100%. His first form blows up planet Vegeta and everyone on it, and it's a form that maxes out at 530,000. So, at his max first form Frieza would STILL only be using about .44% of his total power... I think we can all agree that incinerating a planet, while sitting in a hover-chair, laughing is ass off, and using a single finger to do it is far from going "all out".... 🙄So consider this.... Roshi busted a moon, at 139.
Typical assessments for how many moons would fit in the Earth are in about the 49-50 range... but we'll give you 50 just to be nice.So if we say that Roshi's moon busting attack was his total max on destructive capability.. (which is again... quite generous to you since we never see a cap and what he *couldn't* do), and 50 moons equal 1 Earth. Then, these characters would only have to be in the PL range of 6950, to destroy the Earth. (This is again being incredibly generous seeing the difference that even 1,000 makes in fights etc but whatever).
So we know that Frieza doesn't need more than about 7000 to dust a planet.
Which is 1.3% of his first form's max power, and .00583% (which is *actually* .00579% if we don't round up to 7,000 and *ACTUALLY ACTUALLY* only .00567% if we don't give you the benefit of the doubt on that extra moon) of his 100% forth form max power total... So you were right again, annnnnd that's even WORSE than I assumed off the top of my head!
You're not helping your case by making me to the actual math here. 😬
That's the point, jinzin 😐 I thought it was agreed a long time that math doesn't work with the power levels.
Answer me this; how much energy does it actually takes to destroy a moon?
Originally posted by jinzin
[B]Oh you don't have to! That's the beautiful part about this whole math thing (you should try it out some time)! You necessarily HAVE to believe that Frieza and Goku are attacking eath other with less than .005 percent of their respective power by the time they start fighting.... just by numbers alone. Tell me... can you throw a microsecond punch using less than .005 percent of your full strength?.... Cause that's what you're argument tends to lend itself. I guess that's what we were watching Frieza do the whole time he fought Goku. 🙄 😂
I said nothing about a "microsecond" punch. Come on, dude...😐 Besides, you should realize that Frieza was holding back and it wasn't until later when he got serious and was beating Goku, forcing him to use the Spirit Bomb. There's no way to measure how much he was holding back.
Originally posted by jinzin
[B]Yes... If you think that these characters are fighting each other using less than a fraction of a PERCENT of their actual limit then you are INDEED sir... absolutely talking out of your ass.You can't just arbitrarily *decide* that one of the main premises/tropes that the series INTRODUCED itself with as relevant simply does not matter because you don't agree with it. Power levels matter, and if you think that these characters are intending to kill each other using less than 1% of their power, then you sir, ARE an idiot. I *would* be less insulting if I hadn't already felt offended *by* your absurd argument. Frankly, it's insulting to anyone who watched the show and didn't buy into the plot holes more than they did the plot.
Obsessed fanboy? Hardly. Fan who actually watched the show, understands the concepts of tropes, comprehends the matter of plot holes, and has a basic grasp of grade-school mathematics? Youbetcha.
Now.... GTFO. 😎
Unlike you, I'm not the who's coming up with all these different measurements. If these measurements aren't in the anime/manga, then it's pointless.
You also keep forgetting that the characters don't want to use up too much of their energy during fights, that's why they don't start off at doing their strongest attacks. Do you really think it's smart to start off the fight charging up a planet destroying attack when an opponent can either interrupt you or dodge it? Because it's not.
"Youbetcha"? You had to actually redo the math because you WERE talking out of your ass, with a very insulting tone too. Maybe if you weren't so quick to jump on the defense on the DBZ characters, you wouldn't sound like a fanboy.
Originally posted by jinzin
I guess you *could* adjust the numbers to that but even then, arguing that DBZ characters aren't dishing and tanking planetary busting power is asinine beyond words
No...it isn't. It's never been proven that they can "tank" planetary busting power.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
That's the point, jinzin 😐 I thought it was agreed a long time that math doesn't work with the power levels.
There's you *deciding* you know better once again.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Answer me this; how much energy does it actually takes to destroy a moon?
Shown on panel... How are you seriously asking me this question? 🤨
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I said nothing about a "microsecond" punch. Come on, dude...😐
Originally posted by Bro SMASHNo one is arguing he *wasn't* holding back... That much is clear the moment we are told Frieza has transformed states, it's clear the moment it's understood even in his final form he goes from 1% power to 100.
Besides, you should realize that Frieza was holding back and it wasn't until later when he got serious and was beating Goku, forcing him to use the Spirit Bomb. There's no way to measure how much he was holding back.
What's being argued is that Frieza wasn't holding back planetary busting power just because the collateral damage doesn't measure up. It's a plot hole.... Just like when Hulk hits Rulk and doesn't send him flying off the planet with the hurricane of the force of his arm alone.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Unlike you, I'm not the who's coming up with all these different measurements. If these measurements aren't in the anime/manga, then it's pointless.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHThe problem is that you *think* these characters would need any effort AT ALL to be able to destroy a planet. Uh no. Piccolo blew up the moon again with a single wave of his hand in an instant without powering up while wearing his weighted clothing... mid saiyan saga Piccolo is not Frieza and to think that Frieza being afraid of expending planetary busting energy is even a remote thought in his head when he nuked planet Vegeta with a single finger in his first form.... Like I said, you're being insultingly ignorant.
You also keep forgetting that the characters don't want to use up too much of their energy during fights, that's why they don't start off at doing their strongest attacks. Do you really think it's smart to start off the fight charging up a planet destroying attack when an opponent can either interrupt you or dodge it? Because it's not.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHI had to redo the math because I was giving you a MASSSSSSSIVE benefit of the doubt as the numbers end up showing.
"Youbetcha"? You had to actually to redo the math because you WERE talking out of your ass, with a very insulting tone too. Maybe if you weren't so quick to jump on the defense on the DBZ characters, you wouldn't sound like a fanboy.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHYeah... because every character in DBZ is attacking one another with a power LOWER than the one Roshi used in his early Dragon Ball appearances.... 🙄 This is so utterly stupid it doesn't even deserve a response.
No...it isn't. It's never been proven that they can "tank" planetary busting power.
And.... understanding how DBZ works doesn't make one a fan boy... having to ask a DBZ fan how much power it takes to destroy a moon when we already have panels, numbers, and proof provided however? That *does* make you an idiot.
Well the DBZ characters has only shown resistence to ki attacks, against other type of attacks they were actually able to be hurt.
They can be burned,, cut, and beaten physically which aren't planetary attacks.
They can be burned (yes, if you're close in PL you can be burned).
http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2957-14/dragon-ball/chapter-308.html
Or cut
http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2959-3/dragon-ball/chapter-310.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2959-4/dragon-ball/chapter-310.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2959-5/dragon-ball/chapter-310.html
And the the moon busting feat was rejected twice through out the entire series. How can they fight if one ki blast can destroy the moon? They can't even see the moon, so how can they align their blasts with object. Several times it's been shown that DBZ characters can't see very far distances. Remember the Freeza fight with Goku when freeza knocked him into the water and he couldn't see? Both moon feats didn't make sense.
As for this fight, I give it to Hiei for having vastly more physcial power than Trunks or Zoro, both who's strength I don't think could even rival Toguro's which is only B class.
Originally posted by dvampire
Well the DBZ characters has only shown resistence to ki attacks, against other type of attacks they were actually able to be hurt.They can be burned,, cut, and beaten physically which aren't planetary attacks.
They can be burned (yes, if you're close in PL you can be burned).
http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2957-14/dragon-ball/chapter-308.html
Or cut
http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2959-3/dragon-ball/chapter-310.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2959-4/dragon-ball/chapter-310.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2959-5/dragon-ball/chapter-310.html
And the the moon busting feat was rejected twice through out the entire series. How can they fight if one ki blast can destroy the moon? They can't even see the moon, so how can they align their blasts with object. Several times it's been shown that DBZ characters can't see very far distances. Remember the Freeza fight with Goku when freeza knocked him into the water and he couldn't see? Both moon feats didn't make sense.
As for this fight, I give it to Hiei for having vastly more physcial power than Trunks or Zoro, both who's strength I don't think could even rival Toguro's which is only B class.
They can only be hurt, cut, beaten or battered by someone with a similar power level or higher. The only exception we see to this is when the characters literally reduce their PL defensively like with the Vegeta example already posted.
Even in your "examples" we have Goku burnt by the blast of a character above his own power. Annnddd...... Him dodging and kicking some rocks... not really sure what that was supposed to prove... especially considering that Frieza was moving them using his own energy which is again... above Goku's anyway. 😬
Kid goku was pushing around 60 ton boulders... teen Goku tossed a 100+ ton Piccolo... Goku kicked Frieza through islands. I don't think physical strength or stopping power in striking are things DBZ characters lack despite forum myths.
Originally posted by jinzin
Wasn't agreed by me.... Or Akira Toriyama for that matter. Goku definitively proved with Kaio-ken that power levels are in direct relation to speed, strength, power and durability. Simple as that.There's you *deciding* you know better once again.
That's a trait specific to Kaioken, not a common trait for power levels. That's a big difference.
Originally posted by jinzin
139 or less (to some undetermined number).... That much power...Shown on panel... How are you seriously asking me this question? 🤨
I'm talking about in real-life.
Originally posted by jinzin
[B]You don't have to... Once more this is an issue concerning common sense. The DBZ fighters throw punches and attacks operating on levels past the speed of sound in some cases, exceeding the speed of light in others. These characters are attacking each other using power AND speed... Can you throw a fast punch using .005 percent of your strength? No. You can't. No one can.
Wait..."exceeding the speed of light"? Are you serious? 🤨 No, you gotta be joking. There are no "lightspeed" feats in DBZ.
Originally posted by jinzin
[B]No one is arguing he *wasn't* holding back... That much is clear the moment we are told Frieza has transformed states, it's clear the moment it's understood even in his final form he goes from 1% power to 100.What's being argued is that Frieza wasn't holding back planetary busting power just because the collateral damage doesn't measure up. It's a plot hole.... Just like when Hulk hits Rulk and doesn't send him flying off the planet with the hurricane of the force of his arm alone.
So he's using planet destroying powers without actually destroying the planet? 🤨
Originally posted by jinzin
Except for that they ARE in the manga. 😐
Roshi busted a moon at 139.
Frieza's power maxes at 120 million.
This isn't hard to figure out.
That's power levels. I'm talking about stuff like "a hundred times stronger" or "less than a fraction". Where can you find any of this in the manga?
Originally posted by jinzin
The problem is that you *think* these characters would need any effort AT ALL to be able to destroy a planet. Uh no. Piccolo blew up the moon again with a single wave of his hand in an instant without powering up while wearing his weighted clothing... mid saiyan saga Piccolo is not Frieza and to think that Frieza being afraid of expending planetary busting energy is even a remote thought in his head when he nuked planet Vegeta with a single finger in his first form.... Like I said, you're being insultingly ignorant.
I don't "think" they could. I KNOW they would need effort to destroy a planet (the only who doesn't is probably Buu). The moon is not the same as a planet so that's a bad comparison.
So what if Frieza destroyed Planet Vegeta with a blast from his finger? It'd be really silly to assume he didn't use a lot of energy to do it.
Originally posted by jinzin
I had to redo the math because I was giving you a MASSSSSSSIVE benefit of the doubt as the numbers end up showing.
It's not like it matters in the end.
Originally posted by jinzin
Yeah... because every character in DBZ is attacking one another with a power LOWER than the one Roshi used in his early Dragon Ball appearances.... 🙄 This is so utterly stupid it doesn't even deserve a response.
Have you ever thought that they're trying hold back enough energy so as they won't use up too much of their power during the fight? Seriously, you make it seem like they have to use their strongest blasts right away. Doing such a thing would drain their energy. It's simple.
Originally posted by jinzin
And.... understanding how DBZ works doesn't make one a fan boy... having to ask a DBZ fan how much power it takes to destroy a moon when we already have panels, numbers, and proof provided however? That *does* make you an idiot.
You clearly didn't understand me but I cleared that up already.
Pretty much any Z fighter starting from late in the Frieza Saga through the continuation of the series could have destroyed a planet with rather minimal [if any] effort. Heck, even Saiyan Saga Vegeta(PL=18,000) was capable of destroying the earth.
Fast-forward to the Frieza Saga, and base form Frieza(PL=530,000) remarked that he destroyed the planet Vegeta along with all of its inhabitants "easily":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14599730/DB296-02.jpg.html
Fast-forward to the Cell Saga, and Cell stated that he'd gathered enough energy to destroy the entire solar system:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14600011/350704.gif.html
ie. destroying a single planet would've been child's play.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
That's a trait specific to Kaioken, not a common trait for power levels. That's a big difference.
The only way power scaling *doesn't* work in DBZ arguments is if you want to take what's actually suggested by the on panel material and admit that not only does a higher power level mean better stats, but that it means MUCH better stats by a ridiculous degree far beyond what the ratio indicates.
The only reason we throw you all the bones we do in these arguments is because everyone wants quantifiable data rather than just admit that DBZ characters are light speed planet dusters who are littered with plot holes like EVERY superhero.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHIn a thread about anime characters, where it takes a PL of 139 to blow up a moon. 😐
I'm talking about in real-life.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Wait..."exceeding the speed of light"? Are you serious? 🤨 No, you gotta be joking. There are no "lightspeed" feats in DBZ.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHYES! Now you're gettin' it! It's called a plot hole.
So he's using planet destroying powers without actually destroying the planet? 🤨
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
That's power levels. I'm talking about stuff like "a hundred times stronger" or "less than a fraction". Where can you find any of this in the manga?
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I don't "think" they could. I KNOW they would need effort to destroy a planet (the only who doesn't is probably Buu). The moon is not the same as a planet so that's a bad comparison.
The moon is not *much* different to an energy beam indifferent to what it is it's hitting...
Taking one more adjustment for Namebro's sake.
This is once again giving a benefit of the doubt to DBZ haters in that ki-blasts do more or less damage to inanimate objects contingent on density and mass... Which is not suggested anywhere in DBZ to my knowledge barring Gods and magic.
The earth is roughly equivalent to the mass of 80 moons. Most approximations are anywhere between 74 to 82 so we'll compromise at 80.
Which means going off of Roshi's feat of moon busting at 139; to adjust for mass one would need about 11,120 on the PL system.
Adjusting for the density difference between earth and the moon we need to note that the moon is about 3/5 the density of Earth.
Our final assessment is that one would need a power level of about 17,792 to be able to level the Earth assuming that the Earth can stand up to a ki blast any better than the moon.
Concerning Frieza, this is STILL only 3.35% of Frieza's first form max...
Annnnnnnd.....
still only .014% of his forth form 100% max power. 😐
So we know they can level something the *size* of the Earth at 7,000
and we know they can smash a body with the mass/density of earth at about 18,000....
And we ARE talking in terms of "vaporizing" here.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHJust THAT... THAT'S THE POINT. Asking me "so what if your point happened" ignores why I brought it up... I brought it up because it DID happen... Effortlessly.
So what if Frieza destroyed Planet Vegeta with a blast from his finger?
Originally posted by Bro SMASHIt *would* be silly wouldn't it? Good thing no one's doing that here. Did he use a lot of energy? Of course! It was enough to blow up a planet filled with the strongest warrior race in the universe, and it had to go through one of their most powerful warriors to get to the planet...
It'd be really silly to assume he didn't use a lot of energy to do it.
What I *am* arguing is that it was not a lot of energy... FOR FRIEZA.... less than .014 to .005 percent of his full power depending.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHOh I wholly agree. I wasn't aware before but now I see, you have as much an aversion to math as you do common sense and logic
It's not like it matters in the end.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHUsing their strongest blast at the start of the fight *would* cause a drain on their energy. What you don't seem to understand is that Frieza would need NOWHERE NEAR his "strongest blast" to dust a planet.. as stated, shown, and proven.
Have you ever thought that they're trying hold back enough energy so as they won't use up too much of their power during the fight? Seriously, you make it seem like they have to use their strongest blasts right away. Doing such a thing would drain their energy. It's simple.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHThe only thing that's clear here is that you are possibly the biggest troll I've seen here in years... I forgot I was talking to the guy who thought Kenshiro could pose a threat to Frieza unless Frieza got "serious"... 😂
You clearly didn't understand me but I cleared that up already.
Originally posted by Galan007
Pretty much any Z fighter starting from late in the Frieza Saga through the continuation of the series could have destroyed a planet with rather minimal [if any] effort. Heck, even Saiyan Saga Vegeta(PL=18,000) was capable of destroying the earth.Fast-forward to the Frieza Saga, and base form Frieza(PL=530,000) remarked that he destroyed the planet Vegeta along with all of its inhabitants "easily":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14599730/DB296-02.jpg.htmlFast-forward to the Cell Saga, and Cell stated that he'd gathered enough energy to destroy the entire solar system:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14600011/350704.gif.html
ie. destroying a single planet would've been child's play.
X'actly!
Originally posted by jinzin
No there isn't, higher power equals better everything...
No it doesn't. If that was the case, an ASSJ's speed would increase along with his power, but it doesn't. That just shows you that power levels don't work the way you say it.
In a thread about anime characters, where it takes a PL of 139 to blow up a moon. 😐
Yeah. It just shows how different power levels work from the way you're claiming.
Wrong. Piccolo blew up the moon (again) in an instant. Radditz sidestepped that attack at point blank range. Done.
Wrong. The attack Piccolo used on Radditz wasn't even the same one.
YES! Now you're gettin' it! It's called a plot hole.
But that's not a "plot hole". That's something only you came up with. Stuff made up by a viewer/reader doesn't mean it's a plot hole.
You... *do* understand the concept of mathematics no?
That's not what I'm talking about. I understand you using mathematics but that doesn't mean that that's the way it works in the series because there's hardly any consistent measurements of speed, strength, and power and there's no darn way it's like in real-life.
Just THAT... THAT'S THE POINT. Asking me "so what if your point happened" ignores why I brought it up... I brought it up because it DID happen... Effortlessly.
No, it wasn't "effortlessly". If you're going by that scan, Frieza was only talking about when he fought King Vegeta, not when he destroyed the planet.
It *would* be silly wouldn't it? Good thing no one's doing that here. Did he use a lot of energy? Of course! It was enough to blow up a planet filled with the strongest warrior race in the universe, and it had to go through one of their most powerful warriors to get to the planet...What I *am* arguing is that it was not a lot of energy... FOR FRIEZA.... less than .014 to .005 percent of his full power depending.
But you can't argue that because there's no evidence to back it up. You really have no idea how little energy it zapped from him so that is pointless to talk about.
Oh I wholly agree. I wasn't aware before but now I see, you have as much an aversion to math as you do common sense and logic
So the numbers *wouldn't* matter would they?
I already said power levels are meaningless before you even got here. Perhaps you should try to reading next time.
Using their strongest blast at the start of the fight *would* cause a drain on their energy. What you don't seem to understand is that Frieza would need NOWHERE NEAR his "strongest blast" to dust a planet.. as stated, shown, and proven.
Once again, it's not "shown or proven".
The only thing that's clear here is that you are possibly the biggest troll I've seen here in years... I forgot I was talking to the guy who thought Kenshiro could pose a threat to Frieza unless Frieza got "serious"... 😂 [/B]
You know what...I'm getting real sick and tired of you! You couldn't even keep a consistent argument back then and here you are stumbling over your own argument like last time. You really got no room to call anybody else a troll when you're acting like a complete douchebag over a discussion about anime/manga characters unprovoked, so how the heck can you talk about anybody else? You can't! All you've been doing is acting like an obsessed DBZ fanboy troll yourself! Heck, you don't even know what trolling is! You're just spouting that out like some of those idiots from GameFAQs.
So I'll tell you what, you learn how to respond to my post like an adult and maybe I'll consider responding back.
Well we're getting a bit off topic. Frieza's 100% final form was 120 Million. And we have to assume his cyborg form was either slightly less, or slightly more considering he wasn't in his 100% form, but was more than likely enhanced beyond it with the cybernetics.
And Trunks killed him with just a bit of flash and not all that much effort.
And even though numbers are all over the place, Trunks still easily killed a legit planet buster who made Goku sweat several times before he unlocked the first level of his ultimate power.
That puts him solidly in first place.
Next we have Hiei, wielder of the Dragon of the Darkness Flame, and 2nd in command to one of the 3 most powerful beings in the YYH-verse. She also acknowledges how powerful Hiei himself is. And beings in the S-Class(which Hiei is a part of, albeit in the lower to middle range), can bust mountains as a result of a fight, can sink islands and peninsulas, etc... Puts him in second considering his speed/durability/strength/energy powers/etc...
And Zoro, while awesome, brings up the rear. There's no real debate about that.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
No it doesn't. If that was the case, an ASSJ's speed would increase along with his power, but it doesn't. That just shows you that power levels don't work the way you say it.
Once more (though this is more for onlookers rather than yourself as I know you'll never grasp this concept)... That's an exception to the rule specifically because ASSJ is a form that massively increased the bulk to the body of it's user. The bodies were not those of changelings, so the strain on the BODY had an effect on the BODY. Their power output, strength, and durability went up with their power. None of the Saiyans had the time to adjust to the bigger bodies they were using.. If they did, the wouldn't be effected by the size of the body... Kind of like Broly. As we've gone over before.
Don't you think it's funny that the only example you can think of is ALSO the only one that has a tremendous physical effect on the body of the person using it? Probably not, because you're an absurd little man with a lot of empty space where your brains *should* be.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Yeah. It just shows how different power levels work from the way you're claiming.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHPiccolo used the special beam canon and was shocked that Radditz dodged it, because it's an attack boasted for speed and power. Radditz dodged a> light speed attack. Unless you now think Piccolo could have peppered Radditz with faster attacks and just chose... not to... despite the fact that Radditz was faster than him and Goku... Which... considering your blundering in this thread wouldn't be surprising one bit.
Wrong. The attack Piccolo used on Radditz wasn't even the same one.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
But that's not a "plot hole". That's something only you came up with. Stuff made up by a viewer/reader doesn't mean it's a plot hole.
Superman got knocked out by an exploding gas station.
Silver Surfer's been knocked out by Mexican farmers with a hammer.
Hulk doesn't typically punch people across nations in fist fights.
Batman's dodged light speed attacks along with every other street level... This is plot hole city, welcome to the world of the modern superhero!
Ooooorrrrrr you can tell me again about how DBZ characters try to kill each other using less than 1 percent of their power. 😂
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
That's not what I'm talking about. I understand you using mathematics but that doesn't mean that that's the way it works in the series because there's hardly any consistent measurements of speed, strength, and power and there's no darn way it's like in real-life.
The bottom line is that power level increases are FARRRRR more potent than the ratio/geometric increase indicates, as suggested by the proof of Goku being used as a measuring stick against the farmer.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHYes it WAS effortlessly. Even if we ignore the anime for nothing but the manga, and ignore the multiple representations of Frieza killing the planet with a single finger, there's still the fact that Frieza didn't have to transform for the destruction of the planet either.
No, it wasn't "effortlessly". If you're going by that scan, Frieza was only talking about when he fought King Vegeta, not when he destroyed the planet.
Even if we were *all* ludicrously stupid like yourself and forced ourselves to believe that Frieza needed *full power* at form 1 to destroy planet Vegeta, it would STILL only be using .44% of his total power.... .44% of 100%..... Yes. Effortlessly. 😐
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
But you can't argue that because there's no evidence to back it up. You really have no idea how little energy it zapped from him so that is pointless to talk about.
It might be pointless to talk about it with *you* since you're a ridiculous human being who thinks that Frieza would even have to bat an eyelash at Kenshiro... but most people would grasp this concept just fine. 😉
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I already said power levels are meaningless before you even got here. Perhaps you should try to reading next time.
Lol 😂
Well you may have said that... but since everything you say is endlessly incompetent and entirely inaccurate I decided to clear up the air here.
Power levels are only meaningless to someone like you who doesn't understand the first thing about mathematics, common sense, percentages, staying awake in the classroom, the notion that you shouldn't sniff glue and sharpies, etc ... But to people that watched/read DBZ and understood what they were looking at.. Yeah, they matter. As stated by Akira.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Once again, it's not "shown or proven".
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
You know what...I'm getting real sick and tired of you! You couldn't even keep a consistent argument back then and here you are stumbling over your own argument like last time.
I've been consistent since day one.
Power levels matter. Akira says so. Akira proves so. Akira based the first chapter of DBZ on insisting so... Your defections to plot holes, bad examples, insanity, and willful stupidity doesn't change that.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
You really got no room to call anybody else a troll when you're acting like a complete douchebag over a discussion about anime/manga characters unprovoked, so how the heck can you talk about anybody else? You can't! All you've been doing is acting like an obsessed DBZ fanboy troll yourself! Heck, you don't even know what trolling is! You're just spouting that out like some of those idiots from GameFAQs.So I'll tell you what, you learn how to respond to my post like an adult and maybe I'll consider responding back.
Truth be told, I'm only HOPING you're a troll because my faith in humanity forces me to REFUSE to believe that you're actually this preposterous. I mean, I could be absolutely wrong, and you're not a troll.... but then, as with the rest of this "argument", it doesn't look good for you.
Oh, I eagerly await your response... I mean, I heavily doubt it will be any more than the "nu-uh" argument you've provided so far but your retorts are... at the least, *very* entertaining! 🙂
