trunks (dbz) vs hiei (yu yu hakusho) vs zoro (one piece)

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
What's the matter, jinzin? You're saying you need OTHER people to see your "proof" for you now?

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I thought one of the main of problems with me was ignoring the proof given to me and now when I asked you directly for it, you're backing off? That's not exactly a good stance for someone in your position.

Someone in *my* position? I have half a dozen people in this thread with coherent arguments, credibility, and common sense that agree with me. All of whom have displayed superior DBZ knowledge compared to yourself.
You have what now?..... Ummmmmm...... a screen name that denotes your level of intellect I guess.

I've *already* "cited" numerous examples to support my argument... A number of them were clarifications of the ones you were inaccurately using for the purposes of this debate. Perhaps you meant that I should post scans, which is something else entirely (again, reading comprehension FTW?).

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
So what is it, jinzin? Are you gonna actually show proof of all those things you just said about me? Or are you gonna cowardly back down from something that should have been easy for you?

Proof that you're an idiot? Aside from what's *already* in this thread? I don't need much... And yes, it's quite easy for me...

There's a link for power levels by 2 official sources. Nothing fan-based or subjective there but you can take your pick. Data Books or Akira's own designations.
http://dragonball.neoseeker.com/wiki/Official%20Power%20Levels

Both sources define Nail as having a 42-43000 PL. Both Define base form Frieza as 530,000-540,000. And both define Master Roshi at 139 even.

This is really the only example I'll go into detail right now with you and frankly, it's far more than you deserve, but, it's also far more than enough to dismantle what little pea-brained argument you've come up with so far.
So here we go.

When the fight begins we see Nail clearly powering up his energy for an all out attack against Frieza. We even have Frieza, on panel, define Nail's power level max as well as his own first form PL if the "proof" for power levels wasn't enough for you.
nail powers up
http://www.mangatoyou.org/Dragon_Ball/286/04/
http://www.mangatoyou.org/Dragon_Ball/286/05/

We have Frieza who says he'll only use one arm to fight, allow Nail to hit him with his first attack without putting up *any* defense whatsoever. Frieza asserts that the power level is indeed what he thought (which is to say nothing) right before casually ripping Nail's arm off.
http://www.mangatoyou.org/Dragon_Ball/286/07/

And finally, we have Nail trying one last futile effort against Frieza using a blast at point blank range. Frieza not only notes that Nail's wasted a lot of energy in the attack, but ALSO notes that there's NO WAY the attack would work against him.

http://www.mangatoyou.org/Dragon_Ball/291/06/
http://www.mangatoyou.org/Dragon_Ball/291/07/

And so there you go. Nail, a character who measured roughly over 300 TIMES the Power Level of Roshi's strongest attack failed to do ANYTHING to a form 1 Frieza who was not putting up any defense.
Not only did Nail fail in a physical attack but ALSO in an energy based one, completely, and utterly.

http://www.mangatoyou.org/Dragon_Ball/286/10/
We also have Frieza make note twice that Nail has used a "lot" of energy, so aside from the common sense it would take to read this little scuffle, we have on panel statements that indicate Nail wasn't holding back.

Nail at a power level of 42,000 would NECESSARILY HAVE TO hold back to using less than .33% of his overall power (that's holding back 99.7% of his power in his attacks) to attack him with a power level even SLIGHTLY less than Master Roshi's max level attack. But we have on panel evidence that proves he wasn't holding back at all! Ergo, Nail couldn't inflict damage on a casual and defenseless Frieza, therefor Roshi would do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to him. Thus we can say without any shadow of a doubt that you're INDISPUTABLY a god-damned MORON!

Oh and here's one more example of a fighter landing an attack on Frieza with his back turned... Yep.... Nothing.. just like Roshi would manage to do.
http://www.mangatoyou.org/Dragon_Ball/298/05/
http://www.mangatoyou.org/Dragon_Ball/298/06/

Now, I *could* flood this thread with more scans and more examples, but frankly you're asking me to prove one of the baseline premises of the ENTIRE SHOW and while that may certainly be *easy* it would also be entirely too time-consuming to do when I've already raped your argument and left it's lifeless looking corpse for dead.
And... You and I both know I'd be doing nothing but wasting more of my time (more than I have already), since you're nothing but a damned troll, or an utter idiot. Either way...

Can't fix stupid. 😉

I said that power levels are good in knowing who can beat up who.

And carver, before I address that, I want to know for sure if that is indeed an accurate translation.

@jinzin

❌

I'm a bit disappointed, jinzin. I wasn't asking for any of that (all which was totally irrelevant). I'm talking everything you said about me in this post here:

Originally posted by jinzin
As stated, I feel insulted by your constant trolling and/or willful ignorance despite the sheer amount of proof being provided for you. Not a single person has come in here to overrate a character and your insistence otherwise just goes to show how utterly bereft you are of a single shred of decency and/or a brain with a frontal lobe.

In DBZ power levels matter. Power scaling matters. Your arbitrary decision to claim that they don't is an insult to anyone who has read/watched the material in question and understood what they were looking at. Your insistence that Roshi could harm Frieza is without a shadow of a doubt one of the most moronic things that I've ever seen uttered in a DBZ related thread and that's considering some pretty mind-numbing competition. This isn't me being personal, this is me telling you that you're being an absolute idiot if you think that's actually the case.

Idiot- An idiot dolt, or dullard is a mentally deficient person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way.

Yep, I think that DEFINES you in this argument. Perhaps I'd be less apt to insult you if you were less apt to ignore the countless arguments presented before you instead reaching for your "nu-uh" retort. 😐

The stuff about my "trolling", "ignorance", the "proof" against my claim (you failed to prove that any one of these were moon-busting), where I said both power scaling and power levels didn't mean anything.

Back up all of your accusations of me.

You've not questioned the validity of any other scan here. Why would you question that one? I'm pretty sure Krillin and Vegeta said as much in the anime as well regardless.

Originally posted by KingD19
You've not questioned the validity of any other scan here. Why would you question that one? I'm pretty sure Krillin and Vegeta said as much in the anime as well regardless.

Don't worry, it's all fair...if you see what I'm talking about.

Astner's scan was taken directly from the published English manga... As was mine:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14638944/db26_037.gif.html

So yeah, it's 100% accurate.

If that's REALLY the case, then carver, I'm afraid you just shot yourself in the foot.

Vegeta says right there that he'll "weaken his defenses".

Now what have I basically been saying this whole time? Frieza putting up a defense against moon/planetary attacks.

This really didn't help your case at all.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
If that's REALLY the case, then carver, I'm afraid you just shot yourself in the foot.

Vegeta says right there that he'll "weaken his [b]defenses".

Now what have I basically been saying this whole time? Frieza putting up a defense against moon/planetary attacks.

This really didn't help your case at all. [/B]

What that scan means is that normally, Krillin wouldn't be able to hurt Vegeta. He has to consciously make himself weaker for him to be hurt. And their power levels are much closer than Roshi and Frieza.

So the point stands that Roshi's attack wouldn't hurt Frieza unless he weakened himself. It's logical to say that it's not even possible for Frieza to lower his self enough that it could hurt him, considering how powerful he is.

Normally, Vegeta would be prepared to defend himself against attacks like that. That's why Krillin says he's not strong enough, as he wasn't under the impression that Vegeta won't resist it until Vegeta said "I'll weaken my defense". In otherwords, he lets his defense down, just like what I've been saying this whole time.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
[b]Normally, Vegeta would be prepared to defend himself against attacks like that. That's why Krillin says he's not strong enough, as he wasn't under the impression that Vegeta won't resist it until Vegeta said "I'll weaken my defense". In otherwords, he lets his defense down, just like what I've been saying this whole time. [/B]

No, that's just wrong.

Because Vegeta plainly told Krillin to try and hurt him so he could employ the Saiyan healing/empowerment trance. If he wanted to get hurt, he'd have no reason to try and defend against an attack. Krillin's weak, but he's not stupid, and neither is Vegeta. That's just logic.

What he meant was that he'd weaken himself to the point that Krillin could hurt him enough to cause him to jump in power level.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Don't worry, it's all fair...if you see what I'm talking about.

Answer the question. The scan is accurate unless you think Roshi is more powerful than Krillin.

Originally posted by KingD19
No, that's just wrong.

Because Vegeta plainly told Krillin to try and hurt him so he could employ the Saiyan healing/empowerment trance. If he wanted to get hurt, he'd have no reason to try and defend against an attack. Krillin's weak, but he's not stupid, and neither is Vegeta. That's just logic.

What he meant was that he'd weaken himself to the point that Krillin could hurt him enough to cause him to jump in power level.

No, he didn't. He said "I'll weaken my defense", not that he'll weaken his power level. There's a difference. You're making way too much out of what Krillin said.

Vegeta wouldn't have been referring specifically to his defense if he actually meant his "power level". But no, he just said "his defense", because it won't work unless he lowers that.

Oh and carver; your description was too inaccurate (Krillin never said he couldn't hurt Vegeta, nor did Vegeta say he was gonna lower his power level).

Originally posted by KingD19
No, that's just wrong.

Because Vegeta plainly told Krillin to try and hurt him so he could employ the Saiyan healing/empowerment trance. If he wanted to get hurt, he'd have no reason to try and defend against an attack. Krillin's weak, but he's not stupid, and neither is Vegeta. That's just logic.

What he meant was that he'd weaken himself to the point that Krillin could hurt him enough to cause him to jump in power level.

This...brosmash, I don't know what to say about you.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

@jinzin

❌

I'm a bit disappointed, jinzin. I wasn't asking for any of that (all which was totally irrelevant). I'm talking everything you said about me in this post here:

The stuff about my "trolling", "ignorance", the "proof" against my claim (you failed to prove that any one of these were moon-busting), where I said both power scaling and power levels didn't mean anything.

Back up all of your accusations of me.

Loooooove your constant use of backtracking bullllll!

Oh, we've SEEN you say power scaling and power levels don't mean anything, in fact that is in part what makes you an absolute idiot in this thread ✅. But, just because you insist on something ad nauseam doesn't make it true ❌. So you can keep blabbing on about them not mattering but that's not what Akira Toriyama says, that's not what the story says, and that's not what a single battle in the history of DBZ barring circumstantial evidence would even remotely suggest.... In short... What I've provided is actually EXACTLY what you asked for.

It's proof that power levels work the matter in which has been claimed.
It's proof OF the power levels being cited for examples.
It's proof that someone HUNDREDS of times more powerful than Roshi could ever DREAM of being, failing to put a scratch on Frieza.
It's proof that you are willfully ignorant DESPITE the multitudes of examples and proof presented before you.
Your continued resistance to the relevance of power levels only serves as further proof that you are either completely ignorant, or a an absolute troll.

Your argument necessarily facilitates that you believe Nail attacked Frieza with less than .33% of his power level in any one of his attacks, because it would HAVE to be in order to be even *slightly* weaker than Roshi's moon buster.
If that's your argument, then you're ignoring the on panel evidence that prove otherwise which makes you ignorant, an idiot, and/or a troll. And yeah, your likely all three of those.

jinzin, I'm still waiting.

Or are you just all bark and no bite?

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
If that's REALLY the case, then carver, I'm afraid you just shot yourself in the foot.

Vegeta says right there that he'll "weaken his [b]defenses".

Now what have I basically been saying this whole time? Frieza putting up a defense against moon/planetary attacks.

This really didn't help your case at all. [/B]

And I knew this would eventually BE what your argument came down to because you are too stupid to avoid such a trap....

This is EXACTLY WHY I provided that second example of Vegeta blasting Frieza from behind...

There's a MASSIVE difference between a character not putting up a defense to an attack, and a character actively lowering their natural defenses. Vegeta was actively lowering his level to allow himself to be met by Krillins, hell, that's exactly WHY Krillin makes a point of addressing how he's not strong enough to hurt Vegeta in the first place.

But of course you interpret it differently....

Like I said... Can't fix stupid. 😐

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
jinzin, I'm still waiting.

Or are you just all bark and no bite?

This thread makes my head hurt. I think I should lower my intelligence to keep up.

Originally posted by jinzin
And I knew this would eventually BE what your argument came down to because you are too stupid to avoid such a trap....

This is EXACTLY WHY I provided that second example of Vegeta blasting Frieza from behind...

Oh, really? So that was a moon busting blast?

If not, then be quiet.

Originally posted by jinzin
Trololololol 😄

Just like I thought. You can't prove anything you just accused me of. Just full of crap.

Brosmash,

Who is more powerful, Nail or Roshi?

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Oh, really? So that was a moon busting blast?

If not, then be quiet.

Dragonball Z characters are fully capable of insane Ki/Chi manipulation.
They've used it for physical augmentation, flight, explosive attacks, telepathy, telekinesis. They HAVE the ability to concentrate the power of the attack so that it's focused on it's target instead of wasted on useless collateral damage. The anime exemplified this perfectly when random blasts would go off target and blow up planets around the planets they were fighting on.

If that attack was not a concentrated effort and only allowed to result in collateral damage the effect would have been many many many times more powerful than Roshi's moon buster. But as I said before, you don't have any grasp on what the concept of a literary device like a trope even *is* soooo... yeah.... Can't fix stupid.

Again, to believe otherwise necessitates that you believe Vegeta attacked him with .01% of his full power, even though he was clearly attempting to KILL him.... Again, all this goes back to the Nail example and what *IT* proves... About the series, AND about you being an idiot. 😐

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Just like I thought. You can't prove anything you just accused me of. Just full of crap.

Trolololololololol!!! 💃 💃 💃 🤣 🤣 🤣 💃 💃