Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
Well... if you don't even know it, then I guess it's futile to talk about this with you. I thought you have more knowledge of DB/DBZ than this.Have a nice day.
Just like I thought, you don't even know what the discussion is.
Originally posted by carver9
He thinks Roshi moon busting attack would work on Frieza. Sad thing is, Roshi admitted with ALL his power, he can NOT beat King Piccolo...that's why he tried to contain Piccolo with an outside power source. If he admits he can't do a got darn thing against KP, what is he going to ddo to Frieza.?
You know, I'm really not in the best condition to argue so I'm gonna end it right here and be as blunt as possible.
Yes, I do think Roshi's moon busting attack would hurt Frieza. There's no evidence or even hints that he can just stand there and take it without at least putting up some kind of defense and until there is, I'm sticking to that because so far, it's not been proven.
Another thing is, most people who argue for DBZ seem to always have this narrow-minded view of what makes a DBZ character "stronger" than another. Character 1 stronger than Character 2 doesn't mean Character 2's strongest abilities are completely ineffective against Character 1. Being stronger could mean faster speed, stronger strength, better powers, and powerful beams (because that's what the fight is mostly centered around anyway), not JUST durability. If anything, their durability should be compared to the other character's, not just the destruction of their blast. And it's been shown from time to time that weaker characters CAN harm stronger characters (such as the thing with Gohan vs. Nappa or Vegeta, base form Goku vs. Frieza, Vegeta vs. Cell) so it makes sense to think that Frieza, a character that was dying from a planet destruction and has never shown any moon-destruction durability, just MIGHT be harmed by a moon-busting attack (like Roshi's Kamehameha, his strongest attack). Plus, it's already known that DBZ characters' can't always take what they can dish out. Now am I saying that Roshi can beat Frieza? No, I'm not. So what's your excuse to start tripping, besides trying to exaggerate the character? Because that's likely all you're doing anyway. You can't MAKE me agree with your exaggerations.
Another thing is, why can't you guys stay on the subject about a DBZ character's abilities without bringing up another to change the subject? This has ALWAYS been in a problem when DBZ is being discussed. There's a whole conversation about one character's many abilities and as soon as one of them questioned enough, somebody just HAS to ask "Do you think [insert character] can beat/hurt him?" and that changes the WHOLE thing into a different conversation. I'm really getting tired of that because it's not the same subject. It wasn't even suppose to be a "vs." thing so it shouldn't be changed into one. What is the point of it anyway? To overrate your character? And if that is all you're thinking about, then you're not paying attention to the subject. You want to talk about a character's durability, talk about what he can and can't withstand instead of about WHO shot the blast at him. That's why in my last few posts, I didn't give a direct answer because I knew that's where you guys were heading.
And one more thing, stop trying to turn it personal. Me and carver don't always agree when it comes to DBZ (despite the fact that we're both fans) but at LEAST he didn't resort to name-calling and I'll keep having my respect for him as long as he doesn't do that. But jinzin, you really need to grow up. If you're trying to make a point, throwing insults is NOT the way to do it. To do so makes you seem very much like a trolling fanboy. It's ridiculous.
That's all folks. 🙂
Oh and just to clear up one more thing carver; Roshi said that he can't beat King Piccolo with all of his power. It just means that he's not strong enough to beat King Piccolo, not that King Piccolo can withstand his strongest attack.
Like, when Goku conceded that he couldn't beat Cell, that doesn't mean that Cell could shrug off the Spirit Bomb.
Originally posted by carver9Yeah, if I'm not mistaken King Piccolo's PL=260, which means he was 87% more powerful than Roshi--- yet by Roshi's own accord, he didn't stand a chance against KP. And like I've been saying: final form Frieza is over 43,000,000% more powerful than Roshi, and has already withstood a Kamehameha from a x20 kaioken amped Goku(PL=60,000,000) without being massively affected (not to mention that Frieza also survived a spirit bomb shortly thereafter.)
He thinks Roshi moon busting attack would work on Frieza. Sad thing is, Roshi admitted with ALL his power, he can NOT beat King Piccolo...that's why he tried to contain Piccolo with an outside power source. If he admits he can't do a got darn thing against KP, what is he going to ddo to Frieza.?
Hell, back when Goku's PL was only a meager 32,000 /w/ a x4 kaioken, he unleashed a planet-busting++ Kamehameha against Vegeta, and guess what? VEGETA SURVIVED THE FULL FORCE OF IT W/O EVEN BEING MOMENTARILY KO'D!
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14626996/chap233i13.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14626997/chap233i14.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14626998/chap234i04.jpg.html
That said, to think Roshi can cause any sort of damage to Frieza with a moon busting Kamehameha, when not even Saiyan Saga Vegeta was so much as briefly incapacitated by a planet-busting++ Kamehameha, is, well, idiotic considering final form Frieza was over 300,000% more powerful than Saiyan Saga Vegeta!
It really shouldn't be this hard to understand.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHThis makes no sense. Roshi obviously knew what he was capable of and would've factored that into his assessment... Unless you think he would have held back his Kamehameha against KP.
Oh and just to clear up one more thing carver; Roshi said that he can't beat King Piccolo with all of his power. It just means that he's not strong enough to beat King Piccolo, not that King Piccolo can withstand his strongest attack.Like, when Goku conceded that he couldn't beat Cell, that doesn't mean that Cell could shrug off the Spirit Bomb
Using the spirit bomb as an analogy is faulty as it is not comprised of energy exclusively from Goku, but rather, energy from ALL living things across the entire planet/galaxy/universe.
There are so many holes in your 'arguments' that it's making my head spin.
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, if I'm not mistaken King Piccolo's PL=260, which means he was 87% more powerful than Roshi--- yet by Roshi's own accord, he didn't stand a chance against KP. And like I've been saying: final form Frieza is over [b]43,000,000% more powerful than Roshi, and has already withstood a Kamehameha from a x20 kaioken amped Goku(PL=60,000,000) without being massively affected (not to mention that Frieza also survived a spirit bomb shortly thereafter.)Hell, back when Goku's PL was only a meager 32,000 /w/ a x4 kaioken, he unleashed a planet-busting++ Kamehameha against Vegeta, and guess what? VEGETA SURVIVED THE FULL FORCE OF IT W/O EVEN BEING MOMENTARILY KO'D!
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14626996/chap233i13.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14626997/chap233i14.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14626998/chap234i04.jpg.htmlThat said, to think Roshi can cause any sort of damage to Frieza with a moon busting Kamehameha, when not even Saiyan Saga Vegeta was so much as briefly incapacitated by a planet-busting++ Kamehameha, is, well, idiotic considering final form Frieza was over 300,000% more powerful than Saiyan Saga Vegeta!
It really shouldn't be this hard to understand.[/B]
Agreed with this.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHYes, I do think Roshi's moon busting attack would hurt Frieza. There's no evidence or even hints that he can just stand there and take it without at least putting up some kind of defense and until there is, I'm sticking to that because so far, it's not been proven.
Like Galan said, Saiyan saga Vegeta survived Goku's kamehameha 4x kaioken, which is obviously much more powerful than Roshi's Kamehameha. Don't tell me that Roshi's energy output is still higher than Goku, while Roshi has 139 PL and Goku has 32000 PL (when he blasted Vegeta with kamehameha 4x kaioken).
Originally posted by carver9
And if power levels didn't mean anything...why did Vegeta have to lower his power level so that Krillin can damage him.?
I want brosmash to answer this scan. Krillin who is far more powerful than Roshi admits he can't hurt Vegeta and Vegeta pretty much agrees and lower his power level so that Krillin can damage him. Unless you think Roshi is more powerful than Roshi, this is all the evidence we need.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHAt this point... the discussion is whether or not Roshi can hurt Frieza.. yeah... he can't.
Just like I thought, you don't even know what the discussion is.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHOh yes scarecrow, we've noticed. *If you only had a brain.*
You know, I'm really not in the best condition to argue.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Yes, I do think Roshi's moon busting attack would hurt Frieza.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHYes... Yes there is.
There's no evidence or even hints that he can just stand there and take it without at least putting up some kind of defense and until there is, I'm sticking to that because so far, it's not been proven.
And that just a handful of examples from Frieza alone against characters who have titanic strength compared to Roshi. I *could* go on, but I don't really need to. The "proof" you're looking for happened in the first chapter of DBZ when Radditz stood there hands at his sides and let Piccolo blast him. Radditz is nowhere even CLOSE to Frieza's power and Piccolo was roughly 3 times stronger than Roshi at base level.
Not ONLY this, there's also the fact that Frieza survived a planetary explosion that was likely many times the size of earth, while beaten, battered, blasted, and cut in half, and the explosion didn't do much of anything to Frieza... 😐
Again, to think ROSHI of all people could harm him is beyond stupidity, it's out and out insanity... But then again, you ARE the guy who thinks Kenshiro stands a chance in hell against Frieza too so it isn't exactly surprising.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Another thing is, most people who argue for DBZ seem to always have this narrow-minded view of what makes a DBZ character "stronger" than another.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHUnless they're remotely close to one another in power, it most certainly does!
Character 1 stronger than Character 2 doesn't mean Character 2's strongest abilities are completely ineffective against Character 1.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHNail could not take a blast from Nail with his arms behind his back and be absolutely unscathed. Frieza COULD and Frieza DID, so no, you're wrong like usual.
Being stronger could mean faster speed, stronger strength, better powers, and powerful beams (because that's what the fight is mostly centered around anyway), not JUST durability. If anything, their durability should be compared to the other character's, not just the destruction of their blast.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHGohan only managed to harm Nappa after Nappa had already run through the Z gauntlet, by increasing his power to 3/4's of what Nappa's was and even THEN he only barely managed to hurt Nappa... Think about what all that means.
And it's been shown from time to time that weaker characters CAN harm stronger characters (such as the thing with Gohan vs. Nappa or Vegeta, base form Goku vs. Frieza, Vegeta vs. Cell)
So no.. out of all of those examples, the closest on you have to helping your argument is Gohan and Nappa... in an attack where Nappa was BARELY effected, and certainly not life-threatened, and the distance between him and Gohan is a grain of sand compared to the desert of of distance between Frieza and Roshi. 😐
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
so it makes sense to think that Frieza, a character that was dying from a planet destruction and has never shown any moon-destruction durability, just MIGHT be harmed by a moon-busting attack (like Roshi's Kamehameha, his strongest attack).
Originally posted by Bro SMASHFrieza doesn't HAVE to take what he can dish out. He only has to take moon busting force to unravel your argument, and since he was in the worst shape he could have been in and still be alive AND survived a planetary explosion without any further evidence of damage, I'd say it's pretty much settled that surviving a moon buster isn't even worth discussing.
Plus, it's already known that DBZ characters' can't always take what they can dish out.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHYou think Roshi can hurt Frieza, it's all the reason a man needs.
Now am I saying that Roshi can beat Frieza? No, I'm not. So what's your excuse to start tripping,
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
besides trying to exaggerate the character? Because that's likely all you're doing anyway. You can't MAKE me agree with your exaggerations.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Another thing is, why can't you guys stay on the subject about a DBZ character's abilities without bringing up another to change the subject?
Originally posted by Bro SMASHExcept that it doesn't. Since everything being discussed is relative and... power levels matter.. Despite what your stupidity would lead you to believe.
This has ALWAYS been in a problem when DBZ is being discussed. There's a whole conversation about one character's many abilities and as soon as one of them questioned enough, somebody just HAS to ask "Do you think [insert character] can beat/hurt him?" and that changes the WHOLE thing into a different conversation.
Originally posted by Bro SMASHAs stated, I feel insulted by your constant trolling and/or willful ignorance despite the sheer amount of proof being provided for you. Not a single person has come in here to overrate a character and your insistence otherwise just goes to show how utterly bereft you are of a single shred of decency and/or a brain with a frontal lobe.
I'm really getting tired of that because it's not the same subject. It wasn't even suppose to be a "vs." thing so it shouldn't be changed into one. What is the point of it anyway? To overrate your character? And if that is all you're thinking about, then you're not paying attention to the subject. You want to talk about a character's durability, talk about what he can and can't withstand instead of about WHO shot the blast at him. That's why in my last few posts, I didn't give a direct answer because I knew that's where you guys were heading.And one more thing, stop trying to turn it personal. Me and carver don't always agree when it comes to DBZ (despite the fact that we're both fans) but at LEAST he didn't resort to name-calling and I'll keep having my respect for him as long as he doesn't do that. But jinzin, you really need to grow up. If you're trying to make a point, throwing insults is NOT the way to do it. To do so makes you seem very much like a trolling fanboy. It's ridiculous.
That's all folks. 🙂
In DBZ power levels matter. Power scaling matters. Your arbitrary decision to claim that they don't is an insult to anyone who has read/watched the material in question and understood what they were looking at. Your insistence that Roshi could harm Frieza is without a shadow of a doubt one of the most moronic things that I've ever seen uttered in a DBZ related thread and that's considering some pretty mind-numbing competition. This isn't me being personal, this is me telling you that you're being an absolute idiot if you think that's actually the case.
Idiot- An idiot dolt, or dullard is a mentally deficient person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way.
Yep, I think that DEFINES you in this argument. Perhaps I'd be less apt to insult you if you were less apt to ignore the countless arguments presented before you instead reaching for your "nu-uh" retort. 😐
What's the matter, jinzin? You're saying you need OTHER people to see your "proof" for you now? I thought one of the main of problems with me was ignoring the proof given to me and now when I asked you directly for it, you're backing off? That's not exactly a good stance for someone in your position.
So which is it, jinzin? Are you gonna actually show proof of all those things you just said about me? Or are you gonna cowardly back down from something that should have been easy for you?
