Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet vs Dawn of Time Anti-Monitor...

KMC. The only place on the internet where 2 completely different comic book scenes + random unrelated handbook entry that doesn't even mention those two scenes + rampant conjecture = on-panel multiversal feat.

The convoluted nature of this sort of reading to interpret an on-panel feat leaves something to be desired since you can't even rely on what you see within the four corners of the page itself. In other words, if you have to struggle this hard to interpret a few pages of literature with pretty pictures, you're probably doing it wrong. And Marvel has designated the Ultraverse to be Earth-93060. More importantly, Silver Surfer and Living Tribunal call the Ultraverse a universe on-panel.

^
So I take it you disagree?
Anyway I accounted for it typically being referred to a universe "generally speaking". Really trying to get the focus to be on universal structure. That's why I included the bio to lend some sort of understanding towards the differences.

I guess you were talking about Mr.M when mentioning "2 different scenes" because the scene in those scans happened moments before the split. I'm in no way tyring to "mix up or confuse" anything.

If anyone can provide evidence of ALLUltraforce alternates coming from only Earth 93060, then I'll happily switch my stance.

^ I was talking about you trying to tie together Ultraforce/Avengers and Black September: Infinity.

In Black September Infinity, Amber went back in time aided by the time and reality gems, to the scene of Nemesis' destruction so it does tie in. It was the followup tale of her helping to stop the subsequent waves which were released.

^ And considering all that happened there was the repeated warping of one universe over and over again (instead of multiverses), and the danger threatening that single universe (instead of multiverses), you'd think it'd properly inform you of the universal scope of the Infinity Gems.

Somehow, you did the opposite. Using an unrelated ubiquitous handbook entry that didn't even comment on those two scenes and your own guesswork. It's a theory, sure. Just one that is too convoluted and dubious for me to take seriously.

^
The first wave (the one that destroyed/rewrote) had already passed. Of course it would be somewhat asinine for the author to have every wave thereafter produce the same exact affect. As a result, those waves were only shown to be able to warp the realities.

Once again, the purpose of the handbook was to give a understanding/definition of multiverses, universes, alternate earths etc. which happens to be correct BTW, and can therefore be linked to such situations (in terms of the alternate descriptions). It's fine if you can't, or don't want to correlate the meaning to be applied to the Ultraverse. You've pretty much insinuated that with your posts on the issue.

Originally posted by Sundipped
The first wave (the one that destroyed/rewrote) had already passed. Of course it would be somewhat asinine for the author to have every wave thereafter produce the same exact affect. As a result, those waves were only shown to be able to warp the realities.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Once again, the purpose of the handbook was to give a understanding/definition of multiverses, universes, alternate earths etc. which happens to be correct BTW, and can therefore be linked to such situations (in terms of the alternate descriptions). It's fine if you can't, or don't want to correlate the meaning to be applied to the Ultraverse. You've pretty much insinuated that with your posts on the issue.

^
Let me ask you a couple of questions:
Where do you think the alternates came from?
All from Earth 93060 which is a single earth within the Ultraverse?

I made it clear earlier that the Ultraverse is commonly referred to as a universe. Get over it. The view was subjective but still in accordance with the definitions. That is if you want to apply it to the Ultraverse. Personally, despite the references to the term "universe", I don't see why the same rules given in the bio, wouldn't coinside with the what the Ultraverse represents. You can make a case and say Ultaverse=/=Prime Marvel Multiverse but meh. They both contain alternate versions of characters so they must be somewhat similar in terms of structure. I'm under the impression that every time the word "reality" was mentioned it meant an alternate universe like in the case where the time gem travelled to (alternate earth: location Los Angeles) that had an alternate Warstrike present. For all we know, the word "multiverse" may have never been mentioned at all ever during the Malibu/Ultraforce runs before Marvel bought em out. It's also possible that it wasn't thouroughly differentiated throughout it's history but at the same time could still be synonomous to being vaguely described as a collection of more than one primary earth/universe.

And why do you keep adding a s on multiverse. A multiverse is the collection of alternate earths, divergent realities, etc. I'm only discussing what I'm alluding to as one multiverse.

At the end of the day, you can think whatever you want and frankly this isn't something that needs to be dragged out. It was just a concept thrown out there for those who want to dwell on it if desired. It's becoming circular jibba - jabba.

Originally posted by Mr Master
My bad I should've added something more.
Anyway, it's late in NY, so I'l just address what I can.

Those portals in Asgard-Space and the rest are inter-dimensional,
but they're also a natural Nexus that connects the 8 Worlds.
616-Reality is Not part of that natural network.

4 of the 8 Worlds are literally on Asgard's greater land mass.
Asgard-Vanaheim-Alfheim and Nidavellir
The rest: Jotunheim-Svartalfheim-Hel-Niffleheim and Muspelheim
are lone pocket-dimensions themselves intrinsically connected via
those Nexuses that apply to those 8 Worlds solely. (very important to know)
616 is the only entire Universe out of all this though.

As for the flames taking out the 616 reality.
I wish they were that bad ass but it was probably just planet Earth
since the flames at best affected that Pocket-Dimension (Asgard-Space)

The statements were majestic but the action was limited to a Pocket-Realm.

a natural nexus? if by that you mean the nine worlds are separate dimensions that are a singular unit, than i agree, but i don't know how that helps your case....there is also a portal on earth to niflheim.

as far as the flames--you have proof it was JUST the planet earth? it was mentioned many times that it was the nine worlds that were threatened. midgard is one of them.

so you're fine with eternity representing just a small part of the larger nine worlds? you agree that the other nine worlds are far older than eternity? makes no sense to me....

and if asgard is a truly different universe, why is it thor has so many designations--earth 9997 thor, earth 21993 thor, etc... or dormammu of earth 938, or dormammu or earth 9997.... each is designated as EARTH. so many things don't seem to make sense looking at it the way you are.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
wat

I'm not even sure how one could argue, much less prove, that Asgard/Asgardian Space/The Nine Realms aren't a part of the 616 Marvel Universe. It is its own dimension, sure, but apart of another numerical designation altogether?

I'm legitimately baffled.

Although this argument seems to be winding down, I think more emphasis should be placed on these entire/non-cropped pages...

Not only was Nemesis' final creation a mere "few thousand miles across" and "a few meters deep", but it was also extremely unstable...

"The sketch's structure was brittle, though, too many conflicting elements. When your Topaz made physical contact with your Loki, elements from two wildly different continua-- the structure snapped.":

"The feedback from the enforced closure of the sketch stunned Nemesis.":

So if Nemesis was barely able to hold together an America-sized reality, how in the heck am I supposed to believe that she was able to hold together two entire multiverseS, as some are suggesting? 2 multiverses >g_infinity 1 multiverse >g_infinity 1 universe >g_infinity 1 planet >>> a singular continent(Nemesis' creation.)

If I struggle to bench-press 200lbs, I damn sure won't be able to bench-press 10,000lbs. Just saying...

^
Remember the gems were screwing with her head.
Anyway, what happened afterwards with the waves blows that out of the water and indicates the power to disrupt at least 1 "uni/multi"verse with limited gems. That's what stands out to me and what I choose to look at.

^^ 👆

@Galan ... Hey there G. Yea we touched that in the thread good friend.

Nemesis wasn't holding together Two Multiverses.
Evidently her initial Creation Wave remade Two Universes (616-Ultraverse)
when the writer states she "Obliterated Two entire universes,
not with destructive force but with pure Creative Energy"

It's exactly the way she remade the Ultraverse at the end,
she Obliterated everything then remade it in one swoop.
Although it was much more than that cause Both MultiverseS were Folded together,
and that had to get fixed,
and the only one making things right at the end was Nemesis' Creation Force.

But that's another discussion.

Anyway, after the re-making of the two universes,
then Nemesis' madness had her Creating withIN the Ultraverse
the america-sized reality and that's where she failed since
she needed a "blank canvas." Even after it collapsed she kept trying anyway,
and Broke down All the Walls between Realities in the
Prime Multiverse and the Malibu Mulitverse and we know this is a fact
cause every Alternate Avenger and every Alternate Ultraforce appeared.

Hm, I don't think I'm reading it the same as you are(scale-wise), but this really isn't something that needs to be argued any more than it already has.

^^ Well, I mean G check it:

The Two Universes (616-Ultraverse) remade in one swoop with "Creative Energies"

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16038941_Nem3.jpg]

Proven On Panel ...
This "Creative Energy/Force" remakes via Obliteration/Re-Creation in one shot:

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16038942_Nem4.jpg]

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16038943_Nem5.jpg]

-----------------------------------

This is Both the Malibu Multiverse and the Prime Multiverse Folded together:

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16038939_Nem1.jpg]

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16038940_Nem2.jpg]

I submit, I don't think this was a pre-mediated act on Nemesis' part
but rather a consequence of her continuing to create withIN the Ultraverse.

But G, this madness of meshed infinite UniverseS had to get fixed right?
The only power that put everything back was Nemesis' Creative Energies/Force.

It's annoying that the writer didn't included that specific.

Well, at-least they gave us this, it shows that the final Wave remade even Dimensions
that exist Between Realities, like the Prime Multiverse's Crimson Cosmos:

"This World between Worlds ...
a Wave of energy unknown suddenly sweeps across him
from Everywhere and Nowhere at once ...

... through All That Is or Ever Was ... As Reality ends."

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Two Universes (616-Ultraverse) remade in one swoop with "Creative Energies"

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16038941_Nem3.jpg]

In Ultraforce/Avengers(issue #2) we were shown what Nemesis had actually created-- which was an America-sized reality that she could barely manage to hold together:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16038551/1.jpg.html

Originally posted by Mr Master
Proven On Panel ...
This "Creative Energy/Force" remakes via Obliteration/Re-Creation in one shot:

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16038942_Nem4.jpg]

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16038943_Nem5.jpg]

...Which only serves to demonstrate what the gems' energies [left unchecked] are capable of-- not what Nemesis purposefully did with said energies. No one is arguing the former; it's the latter that is being questioned.

Again, though, this topic has already been beaten to death. You have your opinions, and I have mine. No need to continue the circle.

Originally posted by leonidas

a natural nexus? if by that you mean the nine worlds are separate
dimensions that are a singular unit, than i agree, but i don't know how
that helps your case....there is also a portal on earth to niflheim.

Originally posted by leonidas

as far as the flames--you have proof it was JUST the planet
earth? it was mentioned many times that it was the nine worlds that
were threatened. midgard is one of them.

Imo, the hyperbole doesn't match the fire's on panel fury.

Originally posted by leonidas

so you're fine with eternity representing just a small part of the
larger nine worlds? you agree that the other nine worlds are far
older than eternity? makes no sense to me....

Originally posted by leonidas

and if asgard is a truly different universe, why is it thor has so
many designations--earth 9997 thor, earth 21993 thor, etc... or
dormammu of earth 938, or dormammu or earth 9997.... each is
designated as EARTH. so many things don't seem to make sense
looking at it the way you are.

So ie. the reason we have a Dormy 9777, or 691 is because that
Dormy deals solely with those said realities from outside it within his Pocket.

Originally posted by Galan007

As has already been mentioned: that scan is from the last page
of Avengers/Ultraforce(issue #1.)

In Ultraforce/Avengers(issue #2) we were shown what
Nemesis had actually created-- which was an America-sized reality
that she could barely manage to hold together

That was after the seeming Obliteration of Two UniverseS:

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16038941_Nem3.jpg]

Which is actually the way her "Creative Energies" Re-create.

So, both Universes were Warped/Re-made.

Originally posted by Galan007

That release of energy was caused by Nemesis' 'death' at the hands of the negro-blade:

...Which only serves to demonstrate what the gems' energies [left
unchecked] are capable of-- not what Nemesis purposefully did with
said energies. No one is arguing the former; it's the latter that is
being questioned.

You also kinda ignored the Two MultiverseS Folded together,
and Nemesis's Creation Wave blasting through realities between
realities in the Prime Multiverse, in fact, through All There ever was or is.

Originally posted by Mr Master
You also kinda ignored the Two MultiverseS Folded together,
and Nemesis's Creation Wave blasting through realities between
realities in the Prime Multiverse, in fact, through All There ever was or is.

Also, what issue is it from?

Originally posted by Galan007

I didn't ignore anything. I chose not to comment on that scan
because ODG has already addressed it, and I share his sentiments regarding it.

^^

Originally posted by Galan007
Also, what issue is it from?