Matukai, The 2nd Most Powerful Lightside Force organization

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
If you want to talk about versatility, the Zeison Sha have both the highest degree of specialization in the telekinetic aspects of proficiency as well as versatility.

The Zeison Sha were mastered of using their melee weapons the same way a jedi mastered using his lightsaber.
The Zeison Sha were powerful combatants without their disc blades, and without usage of telekinetic abilities.
Thousands of random Zeison Sha Warriors, and ones that weren't notables, had surpassed even some of the most powerful Jedi in their telekinetic skills on average. Some of these most powerful Jedi telekinetic users are. Yoda, Revan, Nomi Sunrider.

Also you forget this. What Dorsk 81 did was a teamwork effort..... And one that succeeded. Dorsk 81 utilized the channeled Force powers of all available Jedi of Luke Skywalker's Jedi Praxeum, used telekinesis to push seventeen Imperial I-class Star Destroyers out of the Yavin system. And even though he did that. The massive amount of Force energy claimed the Jedi's life. Dorsk 81 died because he was not a powerful telekinetic/force user. Which is why he couldn't withstand the force energy.

Heck The Zeison Sha Warriors used their telekinetic force powers to form a giant telekinetic shield over the yanibar colony, to protect the colonist from the seasonal extremes of the planet.
Most of the yanibar colony owe their lives to the vigilance of powerful Zeison Sha Warriors. Even the Zeison Sha Warrior's description in the Star Wars Role-playing game hero's guide said the exact same thing🙂

The Zeison Sha Warriors themselfs managed a giant telekinetic force shield over their colony. And because of the vigilance of powerful Zeison Sha Warriors, the yanibar colony owe their lives to their warrior protectors.

That's how the Zeison Sha developed their telekinetic force powers, just by simply surviving their planet's harsh ecosystem.

Dorsk 81's telekinetic telekinetic display can be replicated by the Zeison Sha Warriors. The Zeison Sha's Elite Warriors can telekinetically replicate the same display of telekinesis caused by the Jedi praxeum's massive combination of force energy, just with minimum effort.

Yoda has taken loaded Separatist transports (full of droids) and made them hit each other. And did it again. After force pushing an army of droids. And telekinetically lifting an army of droidekas. And then continuing to fight in a battle.

Seriously, you have nothing to back up your claim other than suppositions and bullshit. I am hereby ignoring you.

Here is my own opinion on this matter... Now I could call you all low-life geeks but beleave it or not i'm not a ass whole (cough).

I think instead of fighting over the same thread over and over. You guys should all join a chat and debate everything until eventually you all agree with each other.

Now in my personal choice... I would get off the F***ing computer. Never say the words Star or Wars in my life ever again. Hit the club and get laid. I don't know whats holding you all back. A little zip remover some hair care products and a F***ing bath and you might be able to find someone.

Originally posted by Hacker
Here is my own opinion on this matter... Now I could call you all low-life geeks but beleave it or not i'm not a ass whole (cough).

I think instead of fighting over the same thread over and over. You guys should all join a chat and debate everything until eventually you all agree with each other.

Now in my personal choice... I would get off the F***ing computer. Never say the words Star or Wars in my life ever again. Hit the club and get laid. I don't know whats holding you all back. A little zip remover some hair care products and a F***ing bath and you might be able to find someone.

Pwned-

There's also the Jensaarai. A order formed by a Jedi who fell to the darkside and started trying to teach his disciples some Sith ways, but he died before they got into those aspects so the end result is sort of a mish-mash, not Jedi/not Sith organization of more militant lightsiders.

They even have some unique-to-them powers, like TK 'ballistakinesis'.

And they too wear armor.

They'd be high up in the Lightsider order ranks.

Originally posted by Pwned
No evidence.

Yoda has taken loaded Separatist transports (full of droids) and made them hit each other. And did it again. After force pushing an army of droids. And telekinetically lifting an army of droidekas. And then continuing to fight in a battle.

Seriously, you have nothing to back up your claim other than suppositions and bullshit. I am hereby ignoring you.

Here's the Star Wars Role-playing game hero's guide info on the Zeison Sha Warriors. EVIDENCE 1.

The most talented Force-Users among the Zeison Sha become warriors. They use their telekinetic powers to their fullest and are experienced masters of the discblade weapon. Many of the beings from the Yanibar colony owe their lives to the vigilance of powerful Zeison Sha Warriors, and many in galaxy at large who have encountered Zeison Sha traveling the stars can attest to their prowess.

"Many of the beings from the Yanibar colony owe their lives to the vigilance of powerful Zeison Sha Warriors"
What that means is the Zeison Sha Warriors shielded the yanibar colony from the seasonal extremes of the planet, even though they didn't have the technological means to do so.

The refugees and friends of the Jedi that landed on Yanibar, had no technological means to shield themselves from the seasonal extremes of the planet. And even though they didn't have any technological means to shield themselves, the refugees who became Zeison Sha Warriors, shielded the refugees and their future colony.

How hard could that be to understand?

And i wonder how i don't have evidence concerning the average Zeison Sha Warrior surpassing some of the most powerful Jedi, in terms of telekinetic force power?

EVIDENCE 2

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Telekinesis

Among the most skilled users of telekinesis were the Zeison Sha. Neither Jedi nor Sith, their skilled use of telekinetic force use was developed over decades of simply surviving their planet's harsh environment, surpassing even some of the most powerful of Jedi in their skills.

"The average Zeison Sha Warrior surpassed some of even the most powerful jedi in their telekinetic skills" that's a proven fact. Since most of these Zeison Sha Warriors weren't notables.

EVIDENCE 3
Star Wars Knights The Old Republic II The Sith Lords.

Zeison Sha Warrior armor, description.
The Zeison Sha Warriors were unmatched in telekinetic force powers as well as powerful combatants.

If you still belligerently contradict me even though the evidence said backed up what i said..... I hereby factify you as a blindfolded smoking Jackass🙂.

"The average Zeison Sha Warrior surpassed some of even the most powerful jedi in their telekinetic skills" that's a proven fact. Since most of these Zeison Sha Warriors weren't notables.

Corollary to this: Since they surpassed some, there were others that they didn't surpass.

Also, as they were a much, much smaller organization, they'd have much fewer notables.

Also-also, telekinesis is just one factor of combat. Even one who is inferior at telekinesis can still be overall much more powerful and dangerous due to blade skill, precog skill, illusion casting, and similar.

If you still belligerently contradict me even though the evidence said backed up what i said..... I hereby factify you as a blindfolded smoking Jackass.

Oh, you're just ignoring all the other evidence and you know it 🙂

You can't actually back up your conclusion that they're more powerful overall, you just hear they're good in TK and assume that makes them overall based on nothing.

This is why the Zeison Sha are not the first, second, or third stronger Light Side organization, and nor are the Matukai 🙂

I am sorry there have been telekenetic Savants in the Jedi rankings IE Vader, Satile Shan.

I think making a broad stroke stating one group is more powerful than another is a joke.

Weakness is found in the the organization, not in the collective reasoning that the jedi are weaker light side users than the zeishan shaw of them mutaki.

If they had anyone as powerful as revan the Jedi would have gone to them trying to recruit. had they anyone with the ability to use the force in battle meditation with the number of minds and souls affected as Bastilla shan they would have recruited.
It seems to me if the mutaki or the zeishan shaw or any other force users were as powerful as you state the Dark siders ie sith empire would have wanted them wiped out or turned.

I have not read enough because i doubt there is much source material on those two sects to make amble argument but that stated in itself shows them to be a minor player at best in the galaxy.

Would the ability with tk save them or shield them from Vitiates wrath?
Could they hold their own against the sith empire or dark council. Could they out play the Jedi in force abilty?
the question before mine was if the premise of the force was solely in based on use of tk the example you provide is on average they are with tk more powerful, but it did not nor did you ever by proof of reasoning state the articles you provided suggest that they were more powerful than all the Jedi. Yoda speak "if so powerful in the force you are , why in books of roleplaying games are you most limited to in scope?"
The most powerful lightsiders are the ones who combine ability will grit and determination.
Example Obi wan was headed to the agri corps, why he wasn't particularly strong in the force, he was determined and athletic and a great dualist, it was his perseverance that impressed qui gonn and averted the calamity of his not becoming a Jedi apprentice and knight, and eventually master.
He was and I think i can say this factually very much inferior to anakin skywalker in force abiltiy, but he was wiser and more in control, he was a strategist and athletic, it was his cooler mind that prevailed not his midichloreant count.
Therefore this argument is ridiculous as to who was more powerful, obviously the republic trusted the strength of the jedi the guardians of peace and justice for over a 1000 years, not the mutaki or zeishan sha

Originally posted by Salthasha

If they had anyone as powerful as revan the Jedi would have gone to them trying to recruit. had they anyone with the ability to use the force in battle meditation with the number of minds and souls affected as Bastilla shan they would have recruited.

Vitiates is long dead.
The Jedi did try to recruit the Zeison Sha children.
They were very unsuccessful in their attempts.

Why separate a child from their parents?
They heard they were "Baby Snatchers" and the thought of their children not being able
to communicate and have normal lives ...

To answer your Zeison Sha question,because nobody has the balls to write or step outside
the Jedi and Sith box.....the dark council wasn't all that great nor was this Vitiate.

There is very limited knowledge on these other Force organizations because they believe
in more important things besides destiny power and the balance.
Until we get bold writers to step out the box then maybe we'll know who.....

my money's on the Zeison Sha.

I like the Dark Empire's technology and the Old Republic,it's just the Force has a way choosing
who will take down who in order to keep the balance.

If The Force chose the Zeison Sha to take down this Vitiate,then Vitiate's time is up...
The Jensaari another group with good potential.
Hell even the Followers of Palawa.

Instead it chose a nameless male or female Jedi Knight......
Maybe in another 5 or 10yrs they will do him like Revan and the Jedi exile....

Originally posted by juyomaster34

To answer your Zeison Sha question,because nobody has the balls to write or step outside
the Jedi and Sith box.....the dark council wasn't all that great nor was this Vitiate.

The Jedi and Sith 'box' moves around generation to generation, and it's actually a wider box than the Zeison Sha's box, who were a buncha planet-bound paranoids who didn't look out enough to notice the Jedi weren't evil, not even Luke's Jedi.

Instead it chose a nameless male or female Jedi Knight......

Or, occasionally, redeemed Sith.

Which, I think, says a lot. The force seems to make it's call pretty regularly.

Agreed.....imo/I think the Zeion Sha just wants to be left alone....
free to choose their own destiny,their on lives....

Exactly. Where they are, they're the big fish in a small pond. On their world, no-one's going to mess with them and they can do what they want.

Originally posted by Q99
Corollary to this: Since they surpassed some, there were others that they didn't surpass.

Also, as they were a much, much smaller organization, they'd have much fewer notables.

Also-also, telekinesis is just one factor of combat. Even one who is inferior at telekinesis can still be overall much more powerful and dangerous due to blade skill, precog skill, illusion casting, and similar.

Oh, you're just ignoring all the other evidence and you know it 🙂

You can't actually back up your conclusion that they're more powerful overall, you just hear they're good in TK and assume that makes them overall based on nothing.

This is why the Zeison Sha are not the first, second, or third stronger Light Side organization, and nor are the Matukai 🙂

Some of the most powerful telekinetic jedi are, Yoda, and Revan. And the Zeison Sha have been said to have surpassed some of the most powerful jedi in their skills. (Some of those most powerful telekinetic jedi are Jedi are Revan and Yoda)

And looking at the fact that the Zeison Sha are the most powerful in telekinesis (Which can be used for offense and defense) says they are the most powerful Light Side Order. Lets sight some specific examples on why?

1 The Zeison Sha Warriors have the telekinetic power to pull down ships. Proven by both Bodo Baas & Khem Val.

2. The Zeison Sha Warriors were said to have surpassed some of even the most powerful jedi in their telekinetic skills. (Offensively & Defensively) HENCE the word (Surpassed)

3. Somehow the Zeison Sha Warriors survived on a planet that was just as hot as Venus itself with no food, water, or technological help... and yet they not only survived but also prospered. The Zeison Sha Warriors made something out of nothing.

4. Zeison Sha Warriors have the telekinetic ability of Force Flight. So nothing is really stopping one of them from going up to a star destroyer sized ship and pulling it down while using force flight.

But since the Zeison Sha use the Force primarily for self defense... that's 1 of 2 reasons why none of the Zeison Sha hunt the empire.

5. The Zeison Sha never suffered any casualties during the great jedi purge, due to their telekinetic power & survival skills. Which is what they are known for. And the many beings that encountered the Zeison Sha traveling the starts can attest to that prowess.

6. The Zeison Sha Warriors telekinetically shielded the entire colony from the seasonal extremes of yanibar on a daily routine, hence how they developed in telekinesis.

Lets sight some specific example on the Matukai's superiority comparison to the Jedi.

1 The Matukai adepts have the body maneuverability and proficiency to do feats such as tumbling, running, leaping, and complex martial sequences at the astonishing speed of whirlwind blur. (Complex martial sequences) which are "Punching, Kicking, and flipping"

2. The Matukai apprentices have body empowering robes.

Kotor II proved the Matukai's apprentice robe is physically empowering when it specifically noted.... "The Matukai's robes were designed to help the wearer achieve a physical & spiritual balance"

3. The Matukai adepts have developed their negligible force connection into a tireless energy that not only gives immediate replenishment after refreshment, but also physical empowerment and unlimited stamina.

4. The Matukai adepts cannot be killed by the most lethal poisons & illnesses... In fact Matukai adepts are immune to them.

5. Matukai adepts have the weapon maneuverability speed of a virtual whirlwind. "Which is a moving helicopter's propeller"

6. The Matukai adept's robe physically empowers the wearer by 2%.

7. Their have been no dark side Matukai since the order's founding in 4,000 BBY. The Matukai's code is more stronger then that of any code, which is..

Through exercise, discover the Force.
Through the Force, discover tranquility.
Through tranquility, discover vitality.

If you have any proof of there being dark side matukai, speak now? If not cease with your argument in that aspect.

It's real ignorant that you tried to Judge the Matukai's and Zeison Sha's full power based off the abilities they were given in a board game. Just xD.

Who are the strongest Dark side organizations?

Originally posted by Salthasha
Would the ability with tk save them or shield them from Vitiates wrath?
Could they hold their own against the sith empire or dark council. Could they out play the Jedi in force abilty?
the question before mine was if the premise of the force was solely in based on use of tk the example you provide is on average they are with tk more powerful, but it did not nor did you ever by proof of reasoning state the articles you provided suggest that they were more powerful than all the Jedi. Yoda speak "if so powerful in the force you are , why in books of roleplaying games are you most limited to in scope?"
The most powerful lightsiders are the ones who combine ability will grit and determination.
Example Obi wan was headed to the agri corps, why he wasn't particularly strong in the force, he was determined and athletic and a great dualist, it was his perseverance that impressed qui gonn and averted the calamity of his not becoming a Jedi apprentice and knight, and eventually master.
He was and I think i can say this factually very much inferior to anakin skywalker in force abiltiy, but he was wiser and more in control, he was a strategist and athletic, it was his cooler mind that prevailed not his midichloreant count.
Therefore this argument is ridiculous as to who was more powerful, obviously the republic trusted the strength of the jedi the guardians of peace and justice for over a 1000 years, not the mutaki or zeishan sha

The Zeison Sha could defeat the empire if they truly desired it.

The Zeison Sha have the telekinetic power to pull down ships and shield entire cities. The Zeison Sha can also fly while doing this (Force Flight)

The Zeison Sha have the highest survival rate as a order. They even number somewhere in the thousands.

The Zeison Sha's telekinesis is not limited to levitation/offense... it can be used for defense as well. And since they have surpassed some of even the most powerful jedi in their skills. (Yoda) (Revan) That means the Zeison Sha Warriors are the most destructive in telekinesis. (Offensively & Defensively)

Heck the 2 Reasons why the Zeison Sha aren't helping the Jedi are.

1. The Jedi forgotten about the Zeison Sha on Yanibar.

2. When the Zeison Sha Warriors returned to the galaxy to help those in need... The Jedi decided to make a trip to Yanibar and take more then half of their children. This is the reason why the Zeison Sha became Isolationist instead of being on the offensive.

The Zeison Sha Warriors would have destroyed the empire's troops and killed some of the most powerful Sith Like. Naga Sadow, Freeden Nadd. And Ajunta Pall, i'm unsure about the rest.

As for the Jedi.... there's really nothing to say. Since the Zeison Sha Warriors can lift and throw ships at people... that says the Jedi's chances of defeating the Zeison Sha are low.

The Zeison Sha are the most powerful Light Side order.

The Matukai are completely better then the jedi, since they were originally a order of non force sensitives & negligible force connections.... turned into tireless energies.

The Matukai might as well be tied with the Zeison Sha, since their goal is to make their bodies just as strong as the force energy that channels them. "A.K.A a Physical and Spiritual Balance (Intangibility)

The Jedi are guardians of the peace and defenders of the republic, due to the fact George Lucus thought only about the Jedi and Sith as orders. Not the Zeison Sha & Matukai. George Lucus's mistake was letting people add their ideas into his universe, because of that mistake.... his word doesn't mean anything anymore.. Since his workers made more powerful Characters, as well as Light & Dark side orders. Unknowingly contradicting him in the process.

That's my answer.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Who are the strongest Dark side organizations?

The Sith are the 2nd most powerful Dark Side order.

The rankings for Sith based off of power, achievements, and nobility are.
1st Marka Ragnos
2nd Darth Nihilus.
3rd Tulak Hord. (Marka Ragnos's grandfather)
4th Darth Vitiate.
5th Freedan Nadd. (Freedan Nadd killed over 10,000 jedi not with a Lightsaber, but a Blaster pistol)
6th Ajunta Pall.
7th Darth Sion.
8th Naga Sadow.
9th Darth Zannah.
10th Darth Vader.
11th Darth Sidious.
12th Exar Kun.
13th Darth Bane.
14th Darth Tyranus.
15th Darth Malak.

Originally posted by juyomaster34
Vitiates is long dead.
The Jedi did try to recruit the Zeison Sha children.
They were very unsuccessful in their attempts.

Why separate a child from their parents?
They heard they were "Baby Snatchers" and the thought of their children not being able
to communicate and have normal lives ...

To answer your Zeison Sha question,because nobody has the balls to write or step outside
the Jedi and Sith box.....the dark council wasn't all that great nor was this Vitiate.

There is very limited knowledge on these other Force organizations because they believe
in more important things besides destiny power and the balance.
Until we get bold writers to step out the box then maybe we'll know who.....

my money's on the Zeison Sha.

Great, this dumbass is back.

Gotta ignore the thread again, it seems.