I doubt Bane's TK is on Sidious's level to just toss the brothers around together. He probably can one on one though.
But without his superior force powers Sidious likely would have been overpowered by the combined might of both brothers in the Saber combat. As would Bane.
Oh and if Maul goes Jar Kai on Bane the way he did against Sidious in the final fight, then I see a repeat of the Bane vs Kas'im Saber duel. Without Orbalisk of course.
Originally posted by Arhael
Or Maul Force chokes him or either brother knocked him down with a Force blast. 😉Dooku's feats come from film and CW, where you will never see Sidious do that either.
No, he doesn't.
Neither did Palpatine, so what? In Drew's books 6 year old child can vaporize with TK. Dooku never did that either, so he is below untrained child?
I know you're 'mocking me', but perhaps the responses from others will have shown you how positively adorable that suggestion is.
Dooku has appeared in novels and comics outside of the and he has never demonstrated offensive Force powers of that lethality.
Oh yeah, remember when Maul moved fast enough to appear to wield 12 lightsabers at once! Oh wait. No, no that didn't happen. 😬
Palpatine has actually. In terms of raw power, sure.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I doubt Bane's TK is on Sidious's level to just toss the brothers around together. He probably can one on one though.But without his superior force powers Sidious likely would have been overpowered by the combined might of both brothers in the Saber combat. As would Bane.
Oh and if Maul goes Jar Kai on Bane the way he did against Sidious in the final fight, then I see a repeat of the Bane vs Kas'im Saber duel. Without Orbalisk of course.
Bane has casually torn through the defenses of Sith Lords and disintegrated metal with a wave of his hand. I would say that his TK is at least on Sidious' level.
I doubt it.
You mean, the duel Bane won? 😉
Dooku has appeared in novels and comics outside of the and he has never demonstrated offensive Force powers of that lethality.
Oh yeah, remember when Maul moved fast enough to appear to wield 12 lightsabers at once! Oh wait. No, no that didn't happen. 😬
I, also, remember Mandalor being challenging for Maul and even landing some hits past his defenses. So slow for a Force sensitive. Oh wait, Maul fought at equal speed with Palpatine.
Originally posted by Arhael
So did Sidious. And the only one, where his Force disintegrates anything is DE, which you are eager to bring up in defense of your point. In film though Sidious' lightning didn't even leave any burns on Windu. Force is portrayed differently throughout c-canon, you can deny it as much as you want, it still remains so.
Wrong, Sithisis. He also turned the acolytes who resurrected Darth Maul into charred skeletons (yes, Maul has never stayed dead).
Originally posted by Arhael
I don't remember Yoda moving "fast enough to appear to wield 12 lightsabers at once" either. So what? It means he is slower? Pointless argument really.I, also, remember Mandalor being challenging for Maul and even landing some hits past his defenses. So slow for a Force sensitive. Oh wait, Maul fought at equal speed with Palpatine.
Yoda has sufficient speed feats to counteract Bane's though. Thats the difference from Maul.
Palpatine was going easy on him. He outright says he doesn't plan on killing him. Maul has not demonstrated speed equal to Sidious' elsewhere in the mythos.
Besides which, the CWC doesn't use Force speed at all, so whatever.
Originally posted by NephthysPalpatine was going easy on him. He outright says he doesn't plan on killing him. Maul has not demonstrated speed equal to Sidious' elsewhere in the mythos.
Mind, considering he's Sith, it's very likely he wasn't holding back save for the final blows, on the basis that if Maul didn't survive he wasn't worth using anyway.
Wrong, Sithisis. He also turned the acolytes who resurrected Darth Maul into charred skeletons (yes, Maul has never stayed dead).
Yoda has sufficient speed feats to counteract Bane's though. Thats the difference from Maul.
Palpatine was going easy on him. He outright says he doesn't plan on killing him. Maul has not demonstrated speed equal to Sidious' elsewhere in the mythos.Besides which, the CWC doesn't use Force speed at all, so whatever.
Originally posted by Q99
Mind, considering he's Sith, it's very likely he wasn't holding back save for the final blows, on the basis that if Maul didn't survive he wasn't worth using anyway.
Perhaps. But given that the fight starts with Sidious overpowering them and them seemingly unable to do anything about it until he lets them go, I don't think so.
Originally posted by Arhael
You did your home work. Well done!
Doesn't deny the fact that in main canon TK doesn't disintegrate and lightning doesn't even leave any burns, though.And Maul has sufficient speed to counteract Sidious. No difference.
Funny how you claim that Yoda is fast enough for Bane, when in fact he's got no speed feats apart from actual fights with Dooku and Sidious, where he had no speed advantage.Not sure if serious or just mocking.
In any case Yoda had not demonstrated speed equal to Sidious elsewhere in the mythos as well. Either you apply your speed theory to every character or just cut this shit.
Other than Sidious in DE. Or Plagueis in his book. Force Destruction is a dark side power that is described as TK powerful enough to vaporise opponents (Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II manual).
Does he though? As I've said, Sidious was clearly going easy on him.
Yoda was able to defeat Dooku even though he had a speed boost on Vjun, and in a training session was able to dodge the attacks of multiple Jedi Masters without a lightsaber. Finally as you said, he was able to keep up with a Sidious who blitzed 3 of the Jedi's top bladesbeasts.
Arhael makes a convincing point: Though I'm not sure how one would navigate discrepancies between various mediums, they do exist and (contrary to what Nebarissome would have you believe) do not owe to the idea that the Force users of the prequel and original trilogies are somehow collectively weaker in the Force to such an extensive degree.
The Force Unleashed was constructed from the beginning around the premise of "kicking ass with the Force" (Blackman's words, not mine) and using the Force in ways never before seen. Yet Starkiller, for all his power, still struggled with Vader and was no match for Palpatine, despite displaying powers in excess of theirs.
The fact that every Tom, Sith, and Harry in Karpyshyn's books can sneeze and make ships 'splode doesn't necessarily confer superiority. TCW is itself an exercise in that.
If we think like that then this forum cannot function. Legitimate feats would get thrown out based off of what media they appeared in. How are we to function if we cannot compare characters across media forms? Should we only create threads of characters who appear in the same format? Or should our debates now include arguments such as 'Well Bane's feats come from a Karpyshan novel, which is notoriously high-end Force wise. Maul might not have shown powers equal to him, but because of he's in a weaker series, I'd say he'd be about equal to Bane in a Karpyshan novel.' That's ridiculous and would lead to wildly speculative arguments that have no possibility of an actual verifiable evidence.
The Force Unleashed was conceived as kicking ass with the Force, but to do that they simply created a character who kicks a lot of ****ing ass with the Force. Karpyshans characters are supposed to be incredibly powerful. All of this is consistent with canon if we just accept that the characters..... really are just that powerful. Theres no actual discrepancy there until we think there should be one.
I already acknowledged the extraordinary difficulty in trying to navigate that, but let's be honest: it's not like that sort of thing hasn't been going on for ages now.
Starkiller and The Force Unleashed is a prime example of that. We see Vader labor around like a geriatric against geriatrics in the original trilogy, but here he's collapsing buildings, throwing big ass platforms like frisbees, and generally being a badass to an exponentially greater degree. Starkiller drags capital ships out of orbit, flexes his arms and disintegrates them entirely, and so on.
Feat-to-feat, he'd waste Bane... but no one likes to say that.
Star Wars: The Clone Wars mortally injured the notion that "lol Obi-Wan is teh 4th best Jedi in the PT!" by seeding the series with rivals who, despite their paltry exposure, compete with him on some level.
Didn't see your edit.
Nephthys
The Force Unleashed was conceived as kicking ass with the Force, but to do that they simply created a character who kicks a lot of ****ing ass with the Force. Karpyshans characters are supposed to be incredibly powerful. All of this is consistent with canon if we just accept that the characters..... really are just that powerful. Theres no actual discrepancy there until we think there should be one.
...And the movie!era characters aren't supposed to be "incredibly powerful"? Look, there's no two ways about it: Lucas conceived the Rule of Two as a means of strengthening the Sith. Each successor is greater than his or her predecessor, Bane himself articulates that. Per Lucas, this is what Emperor "I wanna fvcking live forever" Palpatine himself was even trying to do: find someone more powerful than he was. Per the Rule of Two, Bane is supposed to be the weakest of his order. Lucas describes the prequel era as "the golden age" of the Jedi with respect to combat and yet you might not guess it from their performance in AOTC compared to other eras.
Zamp has long exhorted that authorial intent be considered. The danger, of course, is that he and others want to apply that only selectively. If we applied that across the board, the characters he (and you) support would be knocked down a few pegs.
Originally posted by SebastianisI
I used to think Pwoer was one of us. One of teh guys. A friend. or Even something more maybe. But since finding out that he doesnt play KOTOR I have started to see him for who he really is: a noob and a CWC fanboy that should be shunned. SHUNNED!
LOL who the heck are you? I'm not into gaming. And I do have plenty of PT and OT era EU novels, comics and other canon sources.
Originally posted by NephthysPalpatine was going easy on him. He outright says he doesn't plan on killing him.
Oh come on. That was right at the end when he's won that he says that. Don't make excuses for Maul's great performance.
I could argue Maul wasn't fighting at his best until Opress died. Because he outright said he wanted to serve Palpatine at the beginning of the fight.
Originally posted by Q99
Mind, considering he's Sith, it's very likely he wasn't holding back save for the final blows, on the basis that if Maul didn't survive he wasn't worth using anyway.
This is incongruous with what is depicted in the episode.
First, as Nephthys the Infidel has already observed, Sidious begins the fight by pinning them to the palace windows. The importance of their apparent helplessness and his apparent relaxation simply can’t be overstated—one need only review the previous episode, “Shades of Reason,” and see the sort of telekinetic damage Savage can unleash simply by tensing his arms.
The Zabraks in question are not without impressive telekinetic displays: Savage has shoved starships and unleashed seismic waves of power (“Witches of the Mist”); Maul has collapsed caverns while ragdolling a Jedi Council Master and has chucked shuttles while wounded (“Revival”); to say nothing of their respective comic book feats. We see the brothers struggle to free themselves and are only released when Sidious lets them go.
Second, when Sidious kills Savage, he allows Maul to comfort Opress in his dying moments, uninterrupted and unmolested. It has been suggested that Sidious may have been interested in witnessing the dispersion of Talzin’s magicks, but he doesn’t actually pay any attention until Savage has breathed his last.
Third, he specifically tells Maul that he has been replaced—he has no interest in securing Maul’s allegiance or enlisting him as an apprentice. Therefore, he has no imperative need to gauge Maul’s abilities by unleashing his full might.
I’m still hesitant to claim that he was “toying” with the Zabraks in the sword clash, but there is little doubt that Sidious could have ended that fight whenever he wanted through the Force, which he is seen to clearly enjoy a colossal advantage over both of them.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yeah, especially because nothing suggests that considering Sidious was the one leaping around flooring them with kicks.
Nice try. He never once floors Maul with a kick.
He does floor Opress with a kick once. But let's not forget Opress knocks him off the balcony first.
Like it or not Maul proved he alone has the ability to hang with Sidious in Sabers.
Having said that I was seriously impressed with Sidious's TK. To continually ragdoll both brothers together like that... Well let's just say he's more powerful than I ever knew!
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I already acknowledged the extraordinary difficulty in trying to navigate that, but let's be honest: it's not like that sort of thing hasn't been going on for ages now.Starkiller and The Force Unleashed is a prime example of that. We see Vader labor around like a geriatric against geriatrics in the original trilogy, but here he's collapsing buildings, throwing big ass platforms like frisbees, and generally being a badass to an exponentially greater degree. Starkiller drags capital ships out of orbit, flexes his arms and disintegrates them entirely, and so on.
Feat-to-feat, he'd waste Bane... but no one likes to say that.
Star Wars: The Clone Wars mortally injured the notion that "lol Obi-Wan is teh 4th best Jedi in the PT!" by seeding the series with rivals who, despite their paltry exposure, compete with him on some level.
Only by neanderthals like Arhael who can be safely ignored. I've already had this argument with him, and sadly you are no more convincing than he is.
Which is why we don't argue based off of choreography which has obvious limitations to it. Vader has a wide range of feats from novels and comics supporting his power as being closer to his Force Unleashed version than his lame movie version, most of which came out before TFU. It isn't as if TFU is some insane aberration warping Vader's power-level or anything.
In telekinesis perhaps he has an edge, but to say he would waste him is overstating it.
Good for them?
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Didn't see your edit....And the movie!era characters aren't supposed to be "incredibly powerful"? Look, there's no two ways about it: Lucas conceived the Rule of Two as a means of strengthening the Sith. Each successor is greater than his or her predecessor, Bane himself articulates that. Per Lucas, this is what Emperor "I wanna fvcking live forever" Palpatine himself was even trying to do: find someone more powerful than he was. Per the Rule of Two, Bane is supposed to be the weakest of his order. Lucas describes the prequel era as "the golden age" of the Jedi with respect to combat and yet you might not guess it from their performance in AOTC compared to other eras.
Zamp has long exhorted that authorial intent be considered. The danger, of course, is that he and others want to apply that only selectively. If we applied that across the board, the characters he (and you) support would be knocked down a few pegs.
🙄
Nice going turning the discussion into a ****ing OT>All argument. Yeah, that's never getting old. I'm not even going to bother dignifying this. Suffice to say that in the movie!era, the majority of these omfgubar! characters are Jedi who don't attack with the Force offensively and Sith apprentices, who while powerful, do not measure up to the truly great Sith Lords such as Plagueis, Vitiate, Bane and Sidious, and the latter himself. Besides which, the CW characters get plenty of powerful feats, just not as good as the very cream of SW. No matter how much you ***** and moan, simply being alive in that era does not entitle them to be among the top tier of the mythos.
