Star Brand vs Infinity Gauntlet

Originally posted by Mr Master
While we continue to play a game of "show & tell."

You're telling me everything but you're showing me nothing. 🙂

Zop, my friend, I'm still waiting on anyone showing the Starbrand doing anything.

The most I found is that it was so powerful it was able to destroy a City:

I don't remember Quasar "laughing" at anything.

Let me know when you find something the Starbrand's done of significance my friend.

The Starbrand, OUTSIDE the Nexus, was NEVER a threat to reality. (single or otherwise)

Perhaps on paper, but Never On Panel!

And?

Did Quasar tank getting nullified?

No.

The only reason it even destroyed a city wasn't because he willed it, it was because he tried to transfer the Starbrand tattoo to an inanimate object and that's what caused the explosion! He didn't want the power and didn't trust anyone else with it so he tried passing it off on something that wasn't alive and it got ugly fast.

Quasar did indeed laugh off NULLIFICATION once he became aware that he had the Starbrand. He didn't tank it because he only had A MILLIONTH of the original power of the Starbrand :

So ONE MILLIONTH of the Starbrand allowed Quasar to reconstruct himself from NULLIFICATION! Strangely Abraxas and others weren't able to accomplish this feat.

One MILLIONTH of the Starbrand described as "unfathomable" by the Possessor and by Quasar as beyond all reckoning.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I don't remember Maelstrom withstanding the NEWB wielding IG Thanos.

I remember Mael being obliterated, then re-appearing. How/WTF is anyone's guess.

"What If's" are Non-Canon to 616.

I don't care how Gruenwalfd supposedly saw it,
if On Panel neither Maelstrom nor this silly Starbrand did anything of significant consequence.

[b]Maelstrom with All his Amps plus Oblivion's backing was STALEMATED by Infinity!

It's not my fault, Gruenwald was on shrooms
and forgot he literally placed Oblivion/infinity Eternity/Death as EQUALS!

Thanos IG shitstomped Eternity in ONE move!

That's all there is to say about that.

What has Infinity/Eternity done? Hmm. Combined they stomped Magus' Incomplete Gauntlet.

But why go there when you asked for specifics, as in "How many realities have they busted? Created?"

I don't know if you can put a number on how many,
but we do now they Obliterate and Create Entire UniverseS All Day, Every Day!

Chaos/Order are more low key, but they bfr'd Galactus out of their Universe like he was a gnat,
they owned the Ib-Betweener.

This isn't gonna work cause as Conceptual Abstracts that work for reality,
their agenda is to maintain balance, and help ensure the Universe endures.
So it isn't gonna be common place to see them affecting reality negatively
but rather to perform the function they were created for. They're power is in their existence.

Eternity/Infinity on the other hand play that other function and it was witnessed!

So what has the Starbrand done again? (without assistance from the Nexus)

We have killing a weakened Man-Thing, and several other Nexus guardians,
and destroying a City on some world in the New Universe.

We have also have a claim by the LT
... she may be a "Potential Peer to the Abstracts ...
but could NEVER withstand the power of the LT" [/B]

He definitely saw it at about Anomaly Maelstrom's level. Nothing more, nothing less! The Handbook even takes GRUENWALD'S side!.

All of those abstracts you mentioned are NOT beyond the power of the Ultimate Nullifier, yet ONE MILLIONTH of the Starbrand's power restored Quasar after he had been nullified and destroyed MULTIPLE times over!

ONE MILLIONTH.

And the same LT that stated she would not be able to withstand his wrath, was the one that threatened her with a cosmic posse! He was bluffing out his @$$ and he knew it. It was proven when he was the one to back down first and suggest they fight through proxies.

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, that makes sense to me logically--quasar might have figured it out for himself but he had his memory wiped of when he met thanos. anywho, this is from the next issue where quasar actually travels beyond the multiverse and into the greater OMNIVERSE. funny thing zop--only the starbrand could get him home! it appears that its powers extend across the entire omniverse! 😂

anyway, here's a scan that (imo) shows the gauntlet on thanos's hand.

http://imageshack.us/f/703/quasar31p03.jpg/

maybe it's lacking the usual colours for whatever reason, but i think those are certainly intended to be the gems. that scan, along with the time that particular reality apparently diverged, and the mention in the editor's notes about quasar forgetting about the ig, is enough to have me believe that thanos was indeed empowered by the ig in that alternate reality and that it likely was an artistic error that the ig was left out in the first part of the story.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually, he used his Quantum Bands. The Starbrand boosted the Quantum Bands.

Omniverse? Damn leo,
it only helped Quasar's Quantum Bands quantum jump out of one reality into another.

How do you see that as an "omniversal power?"

Heck, the Soul Gem alone did that when it escaped to the Ultraverse with Rune.

This would mean the Soul Gem's power extends across the
omniverse cause it can portal from one Multiverse to another.

Also, let's not forget,
Quasar still had to use the Nexus as a roadway to accomplish that.

If he had been using the Nexus to do it, he'dve been in the Florida swamplands on New Universe Earth, since that point would correspond to the Marvel Universe entry point.

The most recent Starbrand wielder got cheap-shotted half to death by one Mad Celestial. An IG wielder, for whatever moment it was active, pwned a couple of MCs on its own.

IG>Starbrand, despite all of zopzop's propaganda.

IG wins.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
The most recent Starbrand wielder got cheap-shotted half to death by one Mad Celestial. An IG wielder, for whatever moment it was active, pwned a couple of MCs on its own.

IG>Starbrand, despite all of zopzop's propaganda.

IG wins.

Post the scan stating how much of it that Reed had then we'll talk.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
IG>Starbrand, despite all of zopzop's propaganda.

Originally posted by zopzop

Maelstrom made that comment about the QUANTUM BANDS and he said MAY. So to Gruenwald the Quantum Bands were in the same league as the IG! And both were inferior to true abstracts.

I straight up stated it was from an alt reality(the Thanos/maelstrom showdown) but the point was it was written by GRUENWALD. Further cementing the brief encounter Thanos and Maelstrom had under his pen in the Cosmos In Collision arc and further giving credit to the Handbook entry regarding the 616 encounter with Thanos/Maelstrom.

Yeah that's why he depowered it like he depowered the IG when it came under his authority right? Oh no wait, he didn't and couldn't. FAIL. 😆

Just to be clear, the thread title is Starbrand vs IG. Not Starbrand vs IG under Greundwald. Let me repost it again.

He said "may well surpass" if he was adept which he wasn't. Interpretation: It's possible a experienced wielder of the IG's power transcends his total power by a wide margin. Unless you want to exclude the fact Malestrom was already amped by Eon and had upsurped anomaly just to say quantum bands >>IG based on only one attack. Mr.M alluded to this dude (Greundwald) being off. Good thing Starlin came right behind him and set the record straight by having Thanos disintegrate them. You're relying too heavily on one writers take in this thread about the IG in which it shows no inferiority ON PANEL.

Everything doesn't have to be depowered or destroyed. You see how LT considers it's power. A potential peer to entities who get wasted by black holes and none of these beings have a drop of cosmic awareness or feats to speak of 😂

Originally posted by zopzop

Mr M my friend, the reason the most you ever found of it was it
destroying a city was because the wielder was terrified of using it's
power and kept it in check as much as he could throughout his career.

The only reason it even destroyed a city wasn't because he willed
it, it was because he tried to transfer the Starbrand tattoo to an
inanimate object and that's what caused the explosion! He didn't
want the power and didn't trust anyone else with it so he tried
passing it off on something that wasn't alive and it got ugly fast.

And that is .. affecting a City.

Originally posted by zopzop

Quasar did indeed laugh off NULLIFICATION once he became
aware that he had the Starbrand. He didn't tank it because he only had A MILLIONTH of the original power of the Starbrand :

Originally posted by zopzop

The IG stomping Eternity was in a story by STARLIN.
We are discussing how GRUENWALD saw it my friend.

He definitely saw it at about Anomaly Maelstrom's level. Nothing more,
nothing less! The Handbook even takes GRUENWALD'S side!.

The IG is above the hierarchy!

Proven On Panel!

Nothing Gruenwald or any other Hyperbole suggests is gonna change that.

What you think, that Gruenwald is gonna change the IG's history/power-set
and that somehow I'm supposed to take his word
over the CREATOR of the IG Story himself? (Starlin)

Anyway ...

Gruenwald placed Eternity/Infinity/Oblivion/Death as EQUALS!

Originally posted by Mr Master

Maelstrom with All his Amps plus Oblivion's backing was STALEMATED by Infinity!

It's not my fault, Gruenwald was on shrooms
and forgot he literally placed Oblivion/infinity Eternity/Death as EQUALS!

Thanos IG shitstomped Eternity in ONE move!

That's all there is to say about that.

What has Infinity/Eternity done?

"How many realities have they busted? Created?"

I don't know if you can put a number on how many,
but we do now they Obliterate and Create Entire UniverseS All Day, Every Day!

Thanos/IG stomped Eternity in one move.

Infinity stalemated Super Amped Maelstrom.

That's it.

Originally posted by zopzop

All of those abstracts you mentioned are NOT beyond the power of
the Ultimate Nullifier, yet ONE MILLIONTH of the Starbrand's power
restored Quasar after he had been nullified and destroyed
MULTIPLE times over!
ONE MILLIONTH.
And the same LT that stated she would not be able to withstand his
wrath, was the one that threatened her with a cosmic posse! He
was bluffing out his @$$ and he knew it. It was proven when he
was the one to back down first and suggest they fight through
proxies.

Oblivion re-created Maelstrom from nothingness.

Anyway, when a Starbrand wielder is actually depicted doing something,
like perhaps actually withstanding the UN's effect, or battling someone of considerable power
or afefcting matter on a great enough scale,
we'll start to consider this Starbrand.

Until then ... it's a City buster
that managed to kill a weakened Man-Thing and several other Nexus guardians.

Or, it also Amped Quasar's Quantum bands so he could portal to 616 from the New Universe.
Stranger teleported an entire Planet under his own power from there to 616 but who's counting.

Oh, and it enhances the wielder with the common "mythical-god type" abilities:
Super strength/speed/durability/regeneration/long lived etc.

Uhm ... that's it.

Aside from what Erishkigal did assisted by the Nexus and Guardian Amp .. zilch.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Zop, I'm not interested in how it seems Gruenwald "saw it."

The IG is above the hierarchy!

Proven On Panel!

Nothing Gruenwald or any other Hyperbole suggests is gonna change that.

What you think, that Gruenwald is gonna change the IG's history/power-set
and that somehow I'm supposed to take his word
over the CREATOR of the IG Story himself? (Starlin)

Anyway ...

Gruenwald placed Eternity/Infinity/Oblivion/Death as EQUALS!

Thanos/IG stomped Eternity in one move.

Infinity stalemated Super Amped Maelstrom.

That's it.

Zop .. you buggin.

Oblivion re-created Maelstrom from nothingness.

Anyway, when a Starbrand wielder is actually depicted doing something,
like perhaps actually withstanding the UN's effect, or battling someone of considerable power
or afefcting matter on a great enough scale,
we'll start to consider this Starbrand.

Until then ... it's a City buster
that managed to kill a weakened Man-Thing and several other Nexus guardians.

Or, it also Amped Quasar's Quantum bands so he could portal to 616 from the New Universe.
Stranger teleported an entire Planet under his own power from there to 616 but who's counting.

Oh, and it enhances the wielder with the common "mythical-god type" abilities:
Super strength/speed/durability/regeneration/long lived etc.

Uhm ... that's it.

Aside from what Erishkigal did assisted by the Nexus and Guardian Amp .. zilch.

So when discussing what this statement means, we have to see how GRUENWALD saw the IG, Maelstrom, and Abstract beings so we can gauge this statement powerwise.

For the sake of THIS discussion, it doesn't matter how Starlin saw it, because Starlin didn't write those issues! GRUENWALD did.

To GRUENWALD, NOT STARLIN, the IG was more or less on par with Maelstrom with the Q-bands. That's it (this view of his was cemented in that alternate reality issue he wrote when Quasar was off looking for the Living Laser and bolstered by the Handbook entry). And Maelstrom was less than his master, Oblivion, who is an Abstract.

To GRUENWALD the Starbrand was beyond anything 616 reality had seen before.

So when you say, Oblivion re-created Maelstrom from nothing (he was crushed to death by the way, not nullified), keep in mind how GRUENWALD saw Abstracts, then how ONE MILLIONTH of the Starbrand's power RECREATED Quasar from NULLIFICATION while Quasar wasn't even AWARE he had it!

Let me be clear so we can save ourselves this endless back and forth because I don't think we are really disagreeing, we just have our wires crossed, if STARLIN had written those words (Potential Peer to the Abstracts), then I would agree with you 10000000% and this thread should have been closed for spite vs the Starbrand because under Starlin, Thanos with the IG beat the cr@p out of the entire Cosmic Hierarchy.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Just to be clear, the thread title is Starbrand vs IG. Not Starbrand vs IG under Greundwald.

Let me repost it again.

He said "may [B]well surpass" if he was adept which he wasn't. Interpretation: It's possible a experienced wielder of the IG's power transcends his total power by a wide margin. Unless you want to exclude the fact Malestrom was already amped by Eon and had upsurped anomaly just to say quantum bands >>IG based on only one attack. Mr.M alluded to this dude (Greundwald) being off. Good thing Starlin came right behind him and set the record straight by having Thanos disintegrate them. You're relying too heavily on one writers take in this thread about the IG in which it shows no inferiority ON PANEL.

Maelstrom was never amped by Eon. If by "amped" you mean had Cosmic Awareness then what do you consider the OG Captain Marvel who also had Cosmic Awareness?

Starlin didn't come "after" Gruenwald. The two events : Infinity Gauntlet and Cosmos in Collision happened more or less SIMULTANEOUSLY! Whoopsie!

Everything doesn't have to be depowered or destroyed. You see how LT considers it's power. A potential peer to entities who get wasted by black holes and none of these beings have a drop of cosmic awareness or feats to speak of 😂

What does that say about how GRUENWALD saw the IG powerwise vis a vis that Thanos/Maelstrom encounter and the black hole? 😆

Speaking of being destroyed :

💃

Originally posted by zopzop

But you inadvertantly MADE "Starbrand vs IG under Gruenwald" when you sneered at the "potential peer of the abstracts" comment, SINCE GRUENWALD WROTE THAT. I gave you an honest view of how GRUENWALD saw the Abstracts power wise in relation to the IG. You don't have to like, but it's there.

This picture proves my point. GRUENWALD saw the IG and Q-bands as roughly in the same ballpark! The fact that this escapes you is hilarious.

Are you really vouching for this dude Gruenwald? It's obviously clear that you don't have a leg to stand on so now you want to use only one writers take in a thread in which the standard format is that we take all appearances into consideration. You're also ignoring the inconclusiveness of the scene and the statement that the IG may blow the Q bands out of the water. Maelstrom sure didn't stick around did he? He knew what was up and got the phuck outta dodge.

Originally posted by zopzop
Maelstrom was never amped by Eon. If by "amped" youean had Cosmic Awareness then what do you consider the OG Captain Marvel who also had Cosmic Awareness?

Yeah cosmic awareness which he couldn't even utilize properly. Even after Oblivions FULL BACKING. What a joke. 😂

Originally posted by zopzop
Starling didn't come "after" Gruenwald. The two events : Infinity Gauntlet and Cosmos in Collision happened more or less SIMULTANEOUSLY! Whoopsie!

Extra Fail!
Greunwald wrote issues Quasar 18-25 from Jan.-Aug. 1991. Starlin was behind Infinity Gauntlet from July-Dec. 1991. Quasar#24 happened just before Thanos started wrecking shit. Hence the comment I made :"Starling came RIGHT BEHIND" Greunwald.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yeah, got wasted by a black hole (that was amped by Quasar with Infinity Force btw) yet waltzed right up to Thanos with the IG TOTALLY undetected, called him an ignorant savage to his face, laughed off an IG blast, then waltzed away with Thanos in TOTAL IGNORANCE of who he was, how he came to be, and where he went.

What does that say about how GRUENWALD saw the IG powerwise vis a vis that Thanos/Maelstrom encounter and the black hole? 😆

Same recycled blabering which is trademark from you when you have nothing else to bring to the table. This is vintage zopzop in effect.

Originally posted by zopzop
Speaking of being destroyed :

💃

Wrong thread buddy. But it's still vintage zop at it's finest. Jumping to conclusions before arcs finish and going off topic when the debate goes downhill for ya. 😂

Originally posted by Sundipped
Are you really vouching for this dude Gruenwald? It's obviously clear that you don't have a leg to stand on so now you want to use only one writers take in a thread in which the standard format is that we take all appearances into consideration. You're also ignoring the inconclusiveness of the scene and the statement that the IG may blow the Q bands out of the water. Maelstrom sure didn't stick around did he? He knew what was up and got the phuck outta dodge.

I provided you evidence as to how the WRITER OF THAT LINE saw abstracts in relation to the IG and you can't accept it. Sucks for you.

Yeah cosmic awareness which he couldn't even utilize properly. Even after Oblivions [B]FULL BACKING. What a joke. 😂

Extra Fail!
Greunwald wrote issues Quasar 18-25 from Jan.-Aug. 1991. Starlin was behind Infinity Gauntlet from July-Dec. 1991. Quasar#24 happened just before Thanos started wrecking shit. Hence the comment I made :"Starling came [B]RIGHT BEHIND" Greunwald.

Same recycled blabering which is trademark from you when you have nothing else to bring to the table. This is vintage zopzop in effect.

Wrong thread buddy. But it's still vintage zop at it's finest. Jumping to conclusions before arcs finish and going off topic when the debate goes downhill for ya. 😂

PS the PF is still dead and the IG is shattered so........ 😆

Originally posted by zopzop

Genius, you brought up the entire "potential peer to the abstracts" line as if it was somehow a bad thing for the Starbrand.

I provided you evidence as to how the WRITER OF THAT LINE saw abstracts in relation to the IG and you can't accept it. Sucks for you.

Yes, because he was Oblivion's SLAVE, not his equal! Do you understand what you are reading? GRUENWALD saw Maelstrom as more or less Thanos with the IG's equal BEFORE he was ever amped by Oblivion as his Avatar. So where does that leave the IG in GRUENWALD's eyes? 😆

MORE FAIL on your part because that wasn't the end of it. We saw how GRUENWALD would have handled a full on Thanos with IG vs Anomaly Maelstrom fight, should Quasar have failed . And that Alternate reality was created SPECIFICALLY by GRUENWALD.

The debate isn't going downhill at all. Just because you failed at using the "peer to the abstracts" line against the Starbrand (AS WRITTEN BY GRUENWALD). Reading comprehension would go a long way on your part, but that's asking for too much I guess.

PS the PF is still dead and the IG is shattered so........ 😆

Originally posted by Mr Master

Anyway, when a Starbrand wielder is actually depicted doing something,

like perhaps actually withstanding the UN's effect,
or battling someone of considerable power
or affecting matter on a great enough scale,
we'll start to consider this Starbrand.

Until then ... it's a City buster
that managed to kill a weakened Man-Thing and several other Nexus guardians.

Or, it also Amped Quasar's Quantum bands so he could portal to
616 from the New Universe.

Stranger teleported an entire Planet under his own power from
there to 616 but who's counting.

Oh, and it enhances the wielder with the common "mythical-god type" abilities:

Super strength/speed/durability/regeneration/long lived etc.

Uhm ... that's it.

Aside from what Erishkigal did assisted by the Nexus and Guardian Amp .. zilch.

That's it Zop, seriously.