Star Brand vs Infinity Gauntlet

Originally posted by zopzop

Mr. M my friend, I think you selling the Starbrand short.

This is what Erishkigal says about the Starbrand

Originally posted by zopzop

Look how the LT dealt with Warlock and his little tantrum :

Look at how the LT could not just snap his fingers and undo what Erishkigal was doing with the Starbrand, right to his face :

Look at the LT standing up to Warlock with the IG without needing to call in backup :

vs this
The LT stating he'll enlist the mighty of the MULTIVERSE to attack Erishkigal if she doesn't desist :

And to drive the point across, he stated point blank that a direct
war against her (with his little buddies) would cause MORE damage
than her rocking the Cosmic Axis.

As for your comparison my friend, it doesn't fit.

You're putting side to side to completely different set of circumstances.

The LT & Warlock confronted each other in a story containing ONLY Abstracts,
and Warlock himself.

While the LT & Erishkigal pop up in a Quasar book,
where of course/inevitably he has to be the hero at the end.
So the LT & Erishkigal don't battle (plot) and instead well what da know,
Quasar and Surfer battle and Quasar figures how to win
while remaining friends with Surfer. 🙂

==========================

Erishkigal was never a threat to the LT, (that I saw)
and would never have been able to beat the LT, or anything close. (considering the evidence)

In fact, with the Starbrand alone, the LT didn't even notice Erishkigel.

In fact, with the Starbrand alone, EK was NOT a Universal power,
and certainly not a Multiversal power either.

-------------------------------------------------------------

First:

Erishkigel (with Starbrand) has to expend "vast amounts of energy"
just to open a portal to another dimension:

I know many cats that can do this easily, who aren't near even universal level.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Second:

Erishkigel (with Starbrand) never had any kind of cosmic awareness,
and she also has no sense of placement when she exits her reality:

-------------------------------------------------------------

Third:

Erishkigel (with Starbrand) wanted to affect the Multiverse.

These are the Stipulations:

She needed to be in the Nexus of all Realities (contains portals into every universe)

She needed to "shift the Cosmic Axis" (only possible within said Nexus)

She needed to merge with the power of 8 Nexus Guardians in order to accomplish that

This is what actually got the LT's attention, once she merged with the Guardians:

-------------------------------------------------------------

Finally:

We can see Starbrand/Erishkigel without assistance, isn't all she's cracked up to be.

As far as Erishkigel (Starbrand) (and amped by the Nexus Guardians) having a chance against the LT:

The LT felt she may be a "potential peer to the abstract Entities"

But could not "withstand the power of the Living Tribunal"

-------------------------------------------------------------

I guess we can toss a coin to choose where the LT's words make more sense. 😛

Originally posted by Mr Master
On Panel action > On Panel statements

Erishkigal without being Merged to the Nexus Guardians,
and without being withIN the Nexus of all Realities ... was basically a joke,
and didn't even register to the LT.

As for your comparison my friend, it doesn't fit.

You're putting side to side to completely different set of circumstances.

The LT & Warlock confronted each other in a story containing ONLY Abstracts,
and Warlock himself.

While the LT & Erishkigal pop up in a Quasar book,
where of course/inevitably he has to be the hero at the end.
So the LT & Erishkigal don't battle (plot) and instead well what da know,
Quasar and Surfer battle and Quasar figures how to win
while remaining friends with Surfer. 🙂

==========================

Erishkigal was never a threat to the LT, (that I saw)
and would never have been able to beat the LT, or anything close. (considering the evidence)

In fact, with the Starbrand alone, the LT didn't even notice Erishkigel.

In fact, with the Starbrand alone, EK was NOT a Universal power,
and certainly [b]not a Multiversal power either.

-------------------------------------------------------------

First:

Erishkigel (with Starbrand) has to expend "vast amounts of energy"
just to open a portal to another dimension:

I know many cats that can do this easily, who aren't near even universal level.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Second:

Erishkigel (with Starbrand) never had any kind of cosmic awareness,
and she also has no sense of placement when she exits her reality:

-------------------------------------------------------------

Third:

Erishkigel (with Starbrand) wanted to affect the Multiverse.

These are the Stipulations:

She needed to be in the Nexus of all Realities (contains portals into every universe)

She needed to "shift the Cosmic Axis" (only possible within said Nexus)

She needed to merge with the power of 8 Nexus Guardians in order to accomplish that

This is what actually got the LT's attention, once she merged with the Guardians:

-------------------------------------------------------------

Finally:

We can see Starbrand/Erishkigel without assistance, isn't all she's cracked up to be.

As far as Erishkigel (Starbrand) (and amped by the Nexus Guardians) having a chance against the LT:

The LT felt she may be a "potential peer to the abstract Entities"

But could not "withstand the power of the Living Tribunal"

-------------------------------------------------------------

I guess we can toss a coin to choose where the LT's words make more sense. 😛 [/B]

The LT misses a lot of cosmic threats till someone brings it to his attention : The Korvac Incident (yes it's a what if but it's a valid showing for him), Magus with the 5 Cubes, Thanos with the IG, Sliorath. In each of those instances someone brought the offending person to the LT's attention : Uatu with Korvac, Eternity with Thanos/IG, the Vistanti with Sliorath, and the LT didn't even sense Magus with the 5 CCUs.

So him not instantly detecting the Starbrand as a threat isn't something to hold against it. Hell, when Skeletron with the Starbrand was trapped in the New Universe, the LT was totally ignorant of the threat and told Stranger to shift the New Universe Earth out of 616 reality and back into it's rightful multiverse. The Stranger warned him of Skeletron with the Starbrand and the LT WISELY backed off that idea and instead sealed off the New Universe Earth from the rest of 616 reality.

Regarding the multiversal damage from the LT/Starbrand showdown, it stated on panel by the LT himself, that fighting her for control of the Starbrand would cause MORE damage than her shifting the cosmic axis. It's in the scans I provided earlier.

Regarding the Nexus Guardians, she did not need them at all. They decided to join her. She effortlessly annihilated the other Nexus Guardians that didn't want in on her plan :

She destroyed at LEAST 12 of them (that I can count on panel).

Originally posted by zopzop

I think you lowballing the Starbrand big time my friend.

Originally posted by zopzop

The LT misses a lot of cosmic threats till someone brings it to his
attention : The Korvac Incident (yes it's a what if but it's a valid
showing for him), Magus with the 5 Cubes, Thanos with the IG,
Sliorath. In each of those instances someone brought the offending
person to the LT's attention : Uatu with Korvac, Eternity with
Thanos/IG, the Vistanti with Sliorath, and the LT didn't even sense
Magus with the 5 CCUs.

So him not instantly detecting the Starbrand as a threat isn't
something to hold against it. Hell, when Skeletron with the
Starbrand was trapped in the New Universe, the LT was totally
ignorant of the threat and told Stranger to shift the New Universe
Earth out of 616 reality and back into it's rightful multiverse. The
Stranger warned him of Skeletron with the Starbrand and the LT
WISELY backed off that idea and instead sealed off the New
Universe Earth from the rest of 616 reality.

Unlike the Starbrand, which is an energy source of Another Multiverse,
and therefore if it was so powerful as you believe it would warrant the LT's interference immediately since that's what unbalances Multiversal consonance:

Basically,
when a system (Multiverse) has too much power in an given area
that does Not belong to said given area.

ie. When Sym & Mady opened a inter-dimensional portal from Limbo to Reality 89112,
all of Limbo's inhabitants began flowing into that Reality.
Soon enough this brought about an un-balanced state that could potentially affect the Multiverse,
thus we see the LT arrive, but the Phoenix that purged the area affected.

Oh, I just noticed, the true reason the LT noticed her is because prior she had made a Multiversal call:

Again, exploiting the Nexus' effortless passage/influence on multiple realities.

------------------------------------------------------------

You know who has a Multiversal feat under their belt via a Nexus?

The Phoenix Force ... and while some have tried to pin the credit on Phoenix,
the fact is, that without that assisted access to other realities,
this feat doesn't exist.

Real "Multiversal" or beyond feats minus stipulations:

On a specific target? uhh, Abraxas taking out All Alternate Reeds.

On all out wreckage? uhh, the UN re-writing all of Eternity/Infinity.

Originally posted by zopzop

Regarding the multiversal damage from the LT/Starbrand
showdown, it stated on panel by the LT himself, that fighting her for
control of the Starbrand would cause MORE damage than her
shifting the cosmic axis. It's in the scans I provided earlier.

Remember, my friend, the reason these Nexus portals are guarded is because
with the right set of circumstances they can be exploited.

Erishkigal could do Nothing to a single Reality,
or any Reality whatsoever, while Outside the Nexus.

Luckily for her, the Nexus was already thin and tattered, and set for easy pickings:

---------------------------------------------------------

In fact, Ereshkigal herself knew that the only way she was going to affect reality,
was by exploiting the Nexus:

---------------------------------------------------------

In fact, Ereshkigal's own official Bio states exactly the same thing:

"Ereshkigal set out to use the Starbrand to conquer the Nexus of All Realities,
In Order to conquer the Multiverse"

Originally posted by zopzop

Regarding the Nexus Guardians, she did not need them at all. They decided to
join her. She effortlessly annihilated the other Nexus Guardians that didn't want in
on her plan :

"We are aligned with the Axis"

"I want you All to concentrate ...
allow the Nexus Energies that flow through you to come forth"

---------------------------------------------------------

That aside ... let's take a look at some other misgivings concerning this Starbrand:

Ereshkigal has to expend vast amounts of energy just to open a dimensional gateway,
something even Herald-types (or lesser) are capable of.

Ereshkigal never acquired any cosmic awareness:

================================

Aside from killing Man-Thing & those several Nexus guardians,
and exercising her power withIN the Nexus to affect balance between Order/Chaos
I didn't see anything else of of any kind that merits this Starbrand such high esteem.

Meh, you don't even have to be a "universal" power (or close to that) to take out nexus guardians btw.

Nexus Guardians should be just above Heralds. (not necessarily across all attributes)

================================

So imo, where does the Starbrand stand? I honestly don't know. (the hyperbole complicates judgement)

Based on feats, and factoring its limitations depicted on panel? 👇 ... imo!

Originally posted by Mr Master

All of the cases you mentioned where the LT did not show up via his own accord,
are instances where the "offending" parties did Not,
or were Not unbalancing the Multiversal consonance LT worries about.

Unlike the Starbrand, which is an energy source of Another Multiverse,
and therefore if it was so powerful as you believe it would warrant the LT's interference immediately since that's what unbalances Multiversal consonance:

I meant to write ... "All of the cases you mentioned" ...

Instead of "none of the cases" ... (above the first scans)

-------------------

Oh, and ... "the Phoenix Had purged the area affected"

Instead of "the Phoenix that purged the area affected" (below first scans)

🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
I don't think so good friend.

None of the cases you mentioned where the LT did not show up via his own accord,
are instances where the "offending" parties did Not,
or were Not unbalancing the Multiversal consonance LT worries about.

Unlike the Starbrand, which is an energy source of Another Multiverse,
and therefore if it was so powerful as you believe it would warrant the LT's interference immediately since that's what unbalances Multiversal consonance:

Basically,
when a system (Multiverse) has too much power in an given area
that does Not belong to said given area.

ie. When Sym & Mady opened a inter-dimensional portal from Limbo to Reality 89112,
all of Limbo's inhabitants began flowing into that Reality.
Soon enough this brought about an un-balanced state that could potentially affect the Multiverse,
thus we see the LT arrive, but the Phoenix that purged the area affected.

Oh, I just noticed, the true reason the LT noticed her is because prior she had made a Multiversal call:

Again, exploiting the Nexus' effortless passage/influence on multiple realities.

------------------------------------------------------------

You know who has a Multiversal feat under their belt via a Nexus?

The Phoenix Force ... and while some have tried to pin the credit on Phoenix,
the fact is, that without that assisted access to other realities,
this feat doesn't exist.

Real "Multiversal" or beyond feats minus stipulations:

On a specific target? uhh, Abraxas taking out All Alternate Reeds.

On all out wreckage? uhh, the UN re-writing all of Eternity/Infinity.

Yea, [b]withIN the Nexus of All Realities? Of course!

Remember, my friend, the reason these Nexus portals are guarded is because
with the right set of circumstances they can be exploited.

Erishkigal could do Nothing to a single Reality,
or any Reality whatsoever, while Outside the Nexus.

Luckily for her, the Nexus was already thin and tattered, and set for easy pickings:

---------------------------------------------------------

In fact, Ereshkigal herself knew that the only way she was going to affect reality,
was by exploiting the Nexus:

---------------------------------------------------------

In fact, Ereshkigal's own official Bio states exactly the same thing:

"Ereshkigal set out to use the Starbrand to conquer the Nexus of All Realities,
In Order to conquer the Multiverse"

If she did not need them "at all" ...
why did she merge with their powers in order to attempt to unbalance the Cosmic Axis?

"We are aligned with the Axis"

"I want you All to concentrate ...
allow the Nexus Energies that flow through you to come forth"

---------------------------------------------------------

That aside ... let's take a look at some other misgivings concerning this Starbrand:

Ereshkigal has to expend vast amounts of energy just to open a dimensional gateway,
something even Herald-types (or lesser) are capable of.

Ereshkigal never acquired any cosmic awareness:

================================

Aside from killing Man-Thing & those several Nexus guardians,
and exercising her power withIN the Nexus to affect balance between Order/Chaos
I didn't see anything else of of any kind that merits this Starbrand such high esteem.

Meh, you don't even have to be a "universal" power (or close to that) to take out nexus guardians btw.

Nexus Guardians should be just above Heralds. (not necessarily across all attributes)

================================

So imo, where does the Starbrand stand? I honestly don't know. (the hyperbole complicates judgement)

Based on feats, and factoring its limitations depicted on panel? 👇 ... imo! [/B]

Think about it, of all the times the LT has appeared on panel (NOT including retcons like the "Brothers", Secret Wars II, etc...) what has he done?
A) Vs Nebulous (back in the day) - LT beats him after a good fight. Win for the LT
B) Vs Korvac (what if) - LT seals his entire reality preventing anyone from exiting. Win via BFR
C) Vs Warlock with the IG - undoes the damage he did to the Cosmic Court with a snap of his fingers, surprising Warlock and then proceeds to take action against him till Warlock relents of his own free will and submits to the LT. Win for the LT.
D) Vs Protege - the LT loses
E) Vs Sliorath - the LT effortlessly removes a universe devourer from 616 reality. LT wins via BFR.
F) Vs Thanos with the HotU - the LT loses but only because Thanos had TOAA's power. So it's not a bad showing for the LT at all.
G) Vs Erishkigal with the Starbrand - the LT does NOT WANT to fight at all. The havoc Eriskigal causes is NOT undone by a snap of his fingers (as in the Warlock with the IG case). It's also clearly stated on panel that fighting her for control of the Nexus would cause MORE damage than her rocking the Cosmic Axis (which was her whole plan). He instead proposes they fight through proxies.

This doesn't strike you as odd? If the Starbrand is nothing, then why couldn't he put his foot down and stomp her? Hell, why not BFR back into the New Universe or another reality (as we've seen the Starbrand does NOT grant omniscience so she probably wouldn't find her way back)? Or seal her off in a pocket reality and separate it from the rest of the multiverse?

Another thing, once the IG was in the LT's power, his judgement prevented it from working.....period. The Gems could not function in unison until the LT lifted his ruling.

Yet with the Starbrand, even when Eriskigal forfeited it to him, he couldn't destroy it, claim it for his own (like he did with the Protege by absorbing him into himself), or will it not to work! In fact, he was forced to "hide it in plain sight" by secretly giving it back to Kayla.

Furthermore, when the Starblast story arc concluded, the LT demanded Stranger return the New Universe Earth back to the New Universe multiverse, but the Stranger told him that wasn't wise, since it would let loose a "hideously powerful entity" aka Skeletron with the Starbrand. The LT quickly changed his mind and decided to instead seal off the New Universe Earth from the rest of 616 reality.

Again, this doesn't strike you as odd? Why not shunt it back to it's original multiverse and stomp Skeletron if he got uppity? The LT wanted NONE of that.

Finally regarding the UN and Abraxas and crew. Abraxas feared the UN. The Starbrand laughed in it's face. Quasar, who wasn't even AWARE he had the Starbrand, recreated himself after being NULLIFIED (when the Magus with the IG turned it against Quasar)!

The UN itself is nothing to the Starbrand.

^^
Zop you're forgetting that LT said that she could be a "potential peer" to the abstracts. LT said he would enlist the mightiest powers in the multiverse (abstracts) to oppose her. This one scan crushes your whole argument.

The IG has wrecked abstracts repeatedly with no sweat.

In both cases, with the IG and Starbrand, it was stated that the damage would be too much to bear so I honestly don't see why you want to cling to only the statement made in favor of Eriskigal. Both cases have horrible consequences and alternatives we're considered.

The deal LT proposed was win, you can do what you want, lose you surrender the Starbrand. He knew what he was going to accomplish all along because in a fight for the sake of the multiverse, he chose Surfer first and we all know in an all out battle Surfer is superior and would emerge victorious. After all, he can see past/present and future. Clever ploy by LT. 😎

Another thing is that the writer wanted to portray Quasar as the hero of sorts by sacrificing himself after learning what the plan was and he saw the physicality of Lord Chaos and Master Order bounce back and forth. With this being Quasars own title, it's only fitting that it played out the way it did which was the core of the whole proposition.

Eriskigal knew she didn't have the power to challenge LT because she chose to destroy herself instead. Now if one were to avert the proposition, then out of all possible choices, why that?

Anyway, LT said that he can't possess the SB without surrendering his own "limitless authority."

IMO which means only this function, (from LTs bio) which is perhaps the most important in the MU, would be compromised.

But not the actual might of LT which often operates outside of the "limitless authority" that expands throughout the multiverse.

In the Strangers case, it would make no sense to purposely breach the barrier where Skeletron, with the almighty SB, can't even transverse dimensions. 😂
Why risk damaging 616 with LT mopping the floor with Skeletron if not necessary?

^
All of this + lack of feats is why the SB would fall short vs the IG in the mainstream universe. Hell, all a IG Weider would have to do is summon "potential peer" abstracts to do it's bidding. 😎

Originally posted by Sundipped
^^
Zop you're forgetting that LT said that she could be a [B]"potential peer" to the abstracts. LT said he would enlist the mightiest powers in the multiverse (abstracts) to oppose her. This one scan crushes your whole argument.

The IG has wrecked abstracts repeatedly with no sweat.

In both cases, with the IG and Starbrand, it was stated that the damage would be too much to bear so I honestly don't see why you want to cling to only the statement made in favor of Eriskigal. Both cases have horrible consequences and alternatives we're considered.

The deal LT proposed was win, you can do what you want, lose you surrender the Starbrand. He knew what he was going to accomplish all along because in a fight for the sake of the multiverse, he chose Surfer first and we all know in an all out battle Surfer is superior and would emerge victorious. After all, he can see past/present and future. Clever ploy by LT. 😎

Another thing is that the writer wanted to portray Quasar as the hero of sorts by sacrificing himself after learning what the plan was and he saw the physicality of Lord Chaos and Master Order bounce back and forth. With this being Quasars own title, it's only fitting that it played out the way it did which was the core of the whole proposition.

Eriskigal knew she didn't have the power to challenge LT because she chose to destroy herself instead. Now if one were to avert the proposition, then out of all possible choices, why that?

Anyway, LT said that he can't possess the SB without surrendering his own "limitless authority."

IMO which means only this function, (from LTs bio) which is perhaps the most important in the MU, would be compromised.

But not the actual might of LT which often operates outside of the "limitless authority" that expands throughout the multiverse.

In the Strangers case, it would make no sense to purposely breach the barrier where Skeletron, with the almighty SB, can't even transverse dimensions. 😂
Why risk damaging 616 with LT mopping the floor with Skeletron if not necessary?

^
All of this + lack of feats is why the SB would fall short vs the IG in the mainstream universe. Hell, all a IG Weider would have to do is summon "potential peer" abstracts to do it's bidding. 😎 [/B]

E) destroys your entire argument

^
Fail.
You did nothing but recycle what's already been addressed.
The new points you did bring up about Maelstrom allegedly tanking a IG blast and Skeletron being stuck in New Universe are irrelevant to the thread.

Originally posted by Sundipped
^
Fail.
You did nothing but recycle what's already been addressed.
The new points you did bring up about Maelstrom allegedly tanking a IG blast and Skeletron being stuck in New Universe are irrelevant to the thread.

But anyway, you addressed nothing and avoided the points I brought up.

The 'potential peer' statement makes sense when you put it into perspective. The same guy that wrote the LT saying that had Anomaly Maelstrom = Thanos with IG yet Anomaly Maelstrom was still subservient to Oblivion (an abstract).

Skeletron being "stuck" in the New Universe is VERY relevant. The LT was all hot and bothered by the presence of the New Universe Earth in 616 reality, yet didn't DARE return it to it's rightful place in the New Universe multiverse lest Skeletron gain a foothold in 616 reality again.

The LT consistently seeks to AVOID facing off against Starbrand wielders. Funny that no?

**If you don't believe me check out Iron Man : God Killer.

Bringing up maelstrom being subservient to oblivion is ridiculous since in those issue it said oblivion was about to usurp oblivions authority or power I forget ...

As far as living tribunal deciding against battling her directly... He knew the outcome before hand. That's a sign of his cosmic awareness that he knew in a battle wager she would end herself with little interference from him. So he wins and does t have to damage the universe... God bless having that awareness...

Originally posted by rotiart
Bringing up maelstrom being subservient to oblivion is ridiculous since in those issue it said oblivion was about to usurp oblivions authority or power I forget ...

But that was ONLY when the black hole would have consumed the universe. He was fully Oblivion's slave and was even empowered by him to face off vs Infinity and Quasar.

As far as living tribunal deciding against battling her directly... He knew the outcome before hand. That's a sign of his cosmic awareness that he knew in a battle wager she would end herself with little interference from him. So he wins and does t have to damage the universe... God bless having that awareness...

To bad the IG is being treated like crap by a certain writer. Not that i hate that writer. He's pretty good.

So he was going to overtake oblivion... doesnt make him weaker then oblivion prior to his death... however After maelstroms death through the black hole he would later lose his status as anomaly... When quasar shows himself wearing an old costumer... wonky writing to be sure... but This is confirmed when later issues shows the old anomaly has returned...

However prior to his death maelstrom was on his way to taking over oblivious position. If you correlate this with the what if maelstrom that explains quite a bit why that maelstrom was so powerful... Since he had already overtake much of or if not all of that oblivions power

But that's all heresay....

And this is my last response on this subject. Typing this out on my phone sucks
And when maelstrom fought Wendell... If the star brand is so powerful...

Didn't Wendell still have it at that time...

Originally posted by rotiart
So he was going to overtake oblivion... doesnt make him weaker then oblivion prior to his death... however After maelstroms death through the black hole he would later lose his status as anomaly... When quasar shows himself wearing an old costumer... wonky writing to be sure... but This is confirmed when later issues shows the old anomaly has returned...

However prior to his death maelstrom was on his way to taking over oblivious position. If you correlate this with the what if maelstrom that explains quite a bit why that maelstrom was so powerful... Since he had already overtake much of or if not all of that oblivions power

But that's all heresay....

And this is my last response on this subject. Typing this out on my phone sucks
And when maelstrom fought Wendell... If the star brand is so powerful...

Didn't Wendell still have it at that time...

Originally posted by ThereIsHope
To bad the IG is being treated like crap by a certain writer. Not that i hate that writer. He's pretty good.

Originally posted by zopzop
No what's fail is the fact that the IG is shattered and the **PF is dead yet you guys are downplaying the Starbrand 😉

But anyway, you addressed nothing and avoided the points I brought up.

The 'potential peer' statement makes sense when you put it into perspective. The same guy that wrote the LT saying that had Anomaly Maelstrom = Thanos with IG yet Anomaly Maelstrom was still subservient to Oblivion (an abstract).

Skeletron being "stuck" in the New Universe is VERY relevant. The LT was all hot and bothered by the presence of the New Universe Earth in 616 reality, yet didn't DARE return it to it's rightful place in the New Universe multiverse lest Skeletron gain a foothold in 616 reality again.

The LT consistently seeks to AVOID facing off against Starbrand wielders. Funny that no?

**If you don't believe me check out Iron Man : God Killer.

Not that it matters but you have to use your own judgment. How is Maelstrom who got crushed by his own black hole even in the vicinity of the IG powerwise? With total control of reality and space it would be absurd for that to happen. The more I think about it, I'm starting to think Maelstrom just became intangible for that blast. Now what does the featless SB have to do with any of this?

And you continure to remain "stuck" on the flimsy premise of LT being scared of sending new earth back when I already explained it wasn't worth the risk. His only concern was with new world contamination so he put a barrier up and was done with it. Just because he chose a safe method doesn't imply that he couldn't have stomped Skeletron.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Not that it matters but you have to use your own judgment. How is Maelstrom who got crushed by his own black hole even in the vicinity of the IG powerwise? With total control of reality and space it would be absurd for that to happen. The more I think about it, I'm starting to think Maelstrom just became intangible for that blast. Now what does the featless SB have to do with any of this?

This is Gruenwald we are talking about. He had Anomaly Maelstrom laugh off the IG :

In a reality where Quasar failed to stop Maelstrom (written by Gruenwald again), IG Thanos and Anomaly Maelstrom (BEFORE HIS OBLIVION amp, since he never died in the black hole in this reality) is easily Thanos' equal :

And Maelstrom's handbook entry confirms this :

This very same Maelstrom was still subservient to the ABSTRACT Oblivion and was amped by him to take on Infinity/Quasar :

So Gruenwald putting that statement in the LT's mouth isn't a jab at the Starbrand. Far from it. Being a peer to the Abstracts means > than the IG. That's how Gruenwald saw it and the Handbook entry agrees.

And you continure to remain "stuck" on the flimsy premise of LT being scared of sending new earth back when I already explained it wasn't worth the risk. His only concern was with new world contamination so he put a barrier up and was done with it. Just because he chose a safe method doesn't imply that he couldn't have stomped Skeletron.

There is no counter argument to this. The LT did to the IG something he COULD NOT DO to the Starbrand. Starbrand > IG.

I think you are wrong about an amp from oblivion. He had "permission" but no actual "amp"
Maelstrom kills anomaly
Maelstrom with anomaly gains cosmic awareness
maelstrom kills quasar
Maelstrom with quantum bands amps his own kinetic powers to the point he can collapse the universe
Maelstrom dies in black hole
It is said maelstrom (with q bands) would have usurped oblivion
Maelstrom returns to oblivion without bands but still as an anomaly
Quasar enters realm
Both get amped by oblivion and infinity
Quasar shows he is an anomaly
Maelstrom loses his previous cosmic awareness and status as anomaly
Later issues reintroduce the old anomoly...

In short when maelstrom was back in oblivious realm he wasn't as powerful because he didn't have the quantum bands and there was no amp from oblivion when maelstrom went on his spree compared to after his death.

Apples to oranges

Originally posted by rotiart
I think you are wrong about an amp from oblivion. He had "permission" but no actual "amp"

Maelstrom with anomaly gains cosmic awareness

It is said maelstrom (with q bands) would have usurped oblivion

Maelstrom returns to oblivion without bands but still as an anomaly

Both get amped by oblivion and infinity

Maelstrom loses his previous cosmic awareness and status as anomaly

In short when maelstrom was back in oblivious realm he wasn't as powerful because he didn't have the quantum bands and there was no amp from oblivion when maelstrom went on his spree compared to after his death.
Apples to oranges

The scans don't lie.

Originally posted by Sundipped

Not that it matters but you have to use your own judgment. How is
Maelstrom who got crushed by his own black hole even in the vicinity
of the IG powerwise? With total control of reality and space it would
be absurd for that to happen. The more I think about it, I'm starting
to think Maelstrom just became intangible for that blast. Now what
does the featless SB have to do with any of this?

And you continure to remain "stuck" on the flimsy premise of LT being
scared of sending new earth back when I already explained it wasn't
worth the risk. His only concern was with new world contamination so
he put a barrier up and was done with it. Just because he chose a safe
method doesn't imply that he couldn't have stomped Skeletron.

Meh, That Quasar issue ties into the very beginning of the Infinity Gauntlet series,
where Thanos is a newb with the IG.

Maelstrom still felt he was below Thanos if he could harness the IG:

That's something that's overlooked a lot.