Originally posted by Diesldude
I think we have successfully broken down 50% of the supposed feat. That Hyperion did not resist 2 universes closing in on him. Those planets were not manifestations of universes and were alternate earths that he tried to prevent from colliding.This feat (if based on strength) puts Hyperion above Hulk, Thor level but way below Prime. Prime wins.
shut the **** up you *****
Originally posted by kgkgThe worlds had to have touched because, if one of them was destroyed before that happened, the Universes wouldn't have died, as the incursion point (the Earths) would have been destroyed.
I mean it wasn’t clear that the earth collided in Avengers #4 it seems like he held it together until the world broke.
Originally posted by kgkg👆
So at the incursion point both earths are aligned to the same space/time – they have 8 hours to either destroy one of the planets or push a planet out of the incursion zone. If neither is done within 8 hours everything things goes kaboom. Usually in 8 hours the earth would collide but if someone holds the earth like Hyperion did- this does not stop both universes from pushing toward the incursion point and the gravitation force of two universes gets too much to a point where everything breaks down. So in sort if planets are not destroyed naturally(before 8 hours) which would stop the incursion; rather the earth are destroyed because it passed the 8 hours limit where I’m assuming the gravitation pull of both universes are at their highest.
Exactly.
Hyperion didn't push the two Universes, he just held the Earths for the amount of time it took the Universes to advance enough so that the pressure put on those two Earths made them break, touch eachother and destroy the Universes in a cascade effect.
Originally posted by kgkgWe have enough information to make a judgement about what happened, though, and it doesn't put him above Galactus. It puts him at a level where he is strong enough to palm two moving Earths until the pressure from him stopping them (and whatever is pushing them towards eachother, i.e. the two Universes) is too great and they break.
Even if nothing is explained it's not like he will be fighting Galactus or something. It's clear he will be a top tier character- probably below hulk.
Above what I'd say many high heralds are capable of doing [again, this is all assuming that he palmed the Earths, and not though another undisclosed ability/device, which Hickman certainly hinted at], but not drastically so.
Originally posted by Galan007I agree with everything, but these two parts:
My interpretation is that the earths were, essentially, the physical contact point for each universe. Once the earths broke, and were no longer there for Hype to physically hold back, the universes were able to contact one another at a metaphysical level, which started a cascade-effect that ultimately nullified both universes. Here is an extremely crude illustration that hopefully gives you a better idea of what I'm saying:Hype was in the neutral/white space stopping the earths from colliding which, in turn, prevented the universes from contacting. As for why the earths broke: the sheer forces exerted by entire universes pushing against Hype from both directions, and Hype meeting those forces with an equal/opposite level of force, would surely crumble planets.
That is purely my opinion, though. Only time/future issues will tell.
To better illustrate my point, imagine you're in Hyperion's position.
You have your hands streched horizontally.
In each hand, you're holding in your palm a baloon [the two Earths]
Now, imagine say, a truck [the two Universes], slowly pushing against the direction of your baloon.
You're holding them apart until the pressure is too great for the baloons, but that doesn't mean you're as strong as the truck. You're just strong enough for your elbows not to turn backwards, because you're more durable than the balloons, until they eventually break [the Earths didn't pop like the balloons, obviously, but you get the analogy].
It doesn't mean you're actually strong enough to stop the trucks [the two Universes] themselves from advancing.
Know what I'm saying? Hyperion didn't display the strength to hold two Universes back. He displayed the strength to hold two Earths, until the pressure was too much for the Earths and they broke.
Originally posted by Philosophía
I agree with everything, but these two parts:
a). If the Earths were destroyed before they made contact, the Universes would be stopped from collapsing into eachother. I'd equate 'breaking' more with 'crumbling apart due to the pressure because 'destroying' goes against what would happen if that were true.
and the most important part:
b). Hyperion didn't have to push with the same strength the Universes were pushing. The force exerted by Hyperion didn't have to be equal/opposite level of force - he would just have to be durable enough that the Earths breaks before his hand does.To better illustrate my point, imagine you're in Hyperion's position.
You have your hands streched horizontally.
In each hand, you're holding in your palm a baloon [the two Earths]
Now, imagine say, a truck [the two Universes], slowly pushing against the direction of your baloon.
You're holding them apart until the pressure is too great for the baloons, but that doesn't mean you're as strong as the truck. You're just strong enough for your elbows not to turn backwards, because you're more durable than the balloons, until they eventually break [the Earths didn't pop like the balloons, obviously, but you get the analogy].
It doesn't mean you're actually strong enough to stop the trucks [the two Universes] themselves from advancing.Know what I'm saying? Hyperion didn't display the strength to hold two Universes back. He displayed the strength to hold two Earths, until the pressure was too much for the Earths and they broke.
Damn thanks for this. I worked the overnight shift and had a similar debate going on pm and mine was basically a swarm of bees compared to this. LOL You stop one bee but the rest keep advancing.
Originally posted by Galan007
My interpretation is that the earths were, essentially, the physical contact point for each universe. Once the earths broke, and were no longer there for Hype to physically hold back, the universes were able to contact one another at a metaphysical level, which started a cascade-effect that ultimately nullified both universes. Here is an extremely crude illustration that hopefully gives you a better idea of what I'm saying:Hype was in the neutral/white space stopping the earths from colliding which, in turn, prevented the universes from contacting. As for why the earths broke: the sheer forces exerted by entire universes pushing against Hype from both directions, and Hype meeting those forces with an equal/opposite level of force, would surely crumble planets.
That is purely my opinion, though. Only time/future issues will tell. 👆
This.
Originally posted by Philosophía
I agree with everything, but these two parts:
a). If the Earths were destroyed before they made contact, the Universes would be stopped from collapsing into eachother. I'd equate 'breaking' more with 'crumbling apart due to the pressure because 'destroying' goes against what would happen if that were true.
and the most important part:
b). Hyperion didn't have to push with the same strength the Universes were pushing. The force exerted by Hyperion didn't have to be equal/opposite level of force - he would just have to be durable enough that the Earths breaks before his hand does.To better illustrate my point, imagine you're in Hyperion's position.
You have your hands streched horizontally.
In each hand, you're holding in your palm a baloon [the two Earths]
Now, imagine say, a truck [the two Universes], slowly pushing against the direction of your baloon.
You're holding them apart until the pressure is too great for the baloons, but that doesn't mean you're as strong as the truck. You're just strong enough for your elbows not to turn backwards, because you're more durable than the balloons, until they eventually break [the Earths didn't pop like the balloons, obviously, but you get the analogy].
It doesn't mean you're actually strong enough to stop the trucks [the two Universes] themselves from advancing.Know what I'm saying? Hyperion didn't display the strength to hold two Universes back. He displayed the strength to hold two Earths, until the pressure was too much for the Earths and they broke.
Just gonna hop in for a moment. With the baloon anology I think is pretty good. But there was a point where Hype was hold it apart and keep everything where they were momentarily then the earths could not withstand the pressure. So at a point Hype had it under control.
With the balloon analogy, the balloons would never at one point withstand the forces pushed on them in either direction. There would be no moment where there would be a standstill.
Since hype was able to keep it at a stand still even for a moment he was in fact keeping the force of to colliding universes apart. I feel if the planets were made of some indestructible material he would be able to keep them apart indefinitely or until he got tired or something. Just my 2 cents man.
Originally posted by Philosophía
I agree with everything, but these two parts:
a). If the Earths were destroyed before they made contact, the Universes would be stopped from collapsing into eachother. I'd equate 'breaking' more with 'crumbling apart due to the pressure because 'destroying' goes against what would happen if that were true.
and the most important part:
b). Hyperion didn't have to push with the same strength the Universes were pushing. The force exerted by Hyperion didn't have to be equal/opposite level of force - he would just have to be durable enough that the Earths breaks before his hand does.To better illustrate my point, imagine you're in Hyperion's position.
You have your hands streched horizontally.
In each hand, you're holding in your palm a baloon [the two Earths]
Now, imagine say, a truck [the two Universes], slowly pushing against the direction of your baloon.
You're holding them apart until the pressure is too great for the baloons, but that doesn't mean you're as strong as the truck. You're just strong enough for your elbows not to turn backwards, because you're more durable than the balloons, until they eventually break [the Earths didn't pop like the balloons, obviously, but you get the analogy].
It doesn't mean you're actually strong enough to stop the trucks [the two Universes] themselves from advancing.Know what I'm saying? Hyperion didn't display the strength to hold two Universes back. He displayed the strength to hold two Earths, until the pressure was too much for the Earths and they broke.
This!
@Carv my boy, cheerling rocks
Originally posted by PhilosophíaSo.... You like my paint drawing, eh? 😛
I agree with everything, but these two parts:
a). If the Earths were destroyed before they made contact, the Universes would be stopped from collapsing into eachother. I'd equate 'breaking' more with 'crumbling apart due to the pressure because 'destroying' goes against what would happen if that were true.
and the most important part:
b). Hyperion didn't have to push with the same strength the Universes were pushing. The force exerted by Hyperion didn't have to be equal/opposite level of force - he would just have to be durable enough that the Earths breaks before his hand does.To better illustrate my point, imagine you're in Hyperion's position.
You have your hands streched horizontally.
In each hand, you're holding in your palm a baloon [the two Earths]
Now, imagine say, a truck [the two Universes], slowly pushing against the direction of your baloon.
You're holding them apart until the pressure is too great for the baloons, but that doesn't mean you're as strong as the truck. You're just strong enough for your elbows not to turn backwards, because you're more durable than the balloons, until they eventually break [the Earths didn't pop like the balloons, obviously, but you get the analogy].
It doesn't mean you're actually strong enough to stop the trucks [the two Universes] themselves from advancing.Know what I'm saying? Hyperion didn't display the strength to hold two Universes back. He displayed the strength to hold two Earths, until the pressure was too much for the Earths and they broke.
Anyway, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. The reason I believe both universes were destroyed during the Hyperion fiasco is because both worlds were still destroyed. When Reed explained the incursion, he remarked that both earths/universes reach the same harmonic/vibrational alignment-- then 8 hours later, the earths collide, which causes the destruction of both universes... UNLESS: a.) one of said earths is destroyed first, or b.) one of said earths/universes is pushed back, beyond the incursion.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15144730/New_Avengers_002-Zone-018.jpg.html
I believe that because BOTH of the earths were destroyed as a result of Hype's attempt at preventing them from colliding, it was indistinguishable(on a cosmic level) from said universes naturally smashing together, thus the universes were still nullified. The moral of the story thus far seems to be: destroy an earth to save an earth/universe-- or allow the earths to smash together, and both earths/universes die.
