Denton Van Zan Vs. the Wood-chipper from Fargo

Originally posted by Robtard
That's a massive understatement. Not listening to someone else when they're warning you is one thing. Not listening to your own critical advice makes one a complete dunce.

Yes, the point was you claimed Van Zan's plans changed. It didn't.

I know he REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted to kill the male dragon, but his actions for the most part were foolish. He was poorly written, as was the story. I felt his death was hysterically bad.

Zan's objective didn't change but using Quinn to aid him through his intimate knowledge of the city is a different plan altogether. I don't think his actions were foolish. I think he did what he felt was best in his current situation for all mankind.

he stated outright that the dragon sees best at night. and then when does he invade? at night. hur dur.

Van Zan the herpdy derp man strikes again.

(Strikes the blades of the woodchipper, headfirst that is, of course)

Originally posted by focus4chumps
he stated outright that the dragon sees best at night. and then when does he invade? at night. hur dur.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He saw the opportunity to go kill the male dragon and he took it. Trial and error is a tried and true method of learning.

Zan's objective didn't change but using Quinn to aid him through his intimate knowledge of the city is a different plan altogether. I don't think his actions were foolish. I think he did what he felt was best in his current situation for all mankind.

You're still ignoring that he went against his own advice and tried taking on the male when it was at its most lethal, at night. Do I have to do more screen caps?

He used Quinn and Quinn used him. It's not like Van Zan had any other choice, all his men and most of Quinn's were killed cos of Van Zan.

How is ignoring your own advice not foolish, especially when it leads to a blunder? How is ignoring someone's warning which ends up costing the mission, many lives and a base not foolish? How is jumping to certain death instead of trying to survive and possibly have another go at your enemy not foolish?

Originally posted by quanchi112
He came back later [as a collaborator and not a leader, died if an ineffectual and stupid attack, who's plan of killing it in the air failed, and quinn had to face it on ground regardless, and then...] and the dragon was put down.

the only purpose quinn served in the end, which killed the dragon and saved mankind* was errand boy. he delivered the dragon slayer weapon to quinn. all hail van zan: epic badass errand boy

*millions of years in the future when the male dragon re-awoke to an advanced civilization which has been prepared to stomp it out if ever it showed up again.

Originally posted by Robtard
How is jumping to certain death instead of trying to survive and possibly have another go at your enemy not foolish?

This is really the only part i have issue with. I believe he thought he was dead no matter what and decided to try to at least injure the dragon before his death. The rest i agree with. He was bull headed and foolish a great deal

it was a dumb plan. he situated himself in the worst place possible for fighting a dragon. immobile. elevated. no cover. and no *likely* escape.

stupidity or suicide?

Had the dragon not taken out his explosive he would have downed the beast. It was a gamble sure but the pay off would have been huge.

It was not intending to die until he decided to jump imo

Originally posted by juggerman
Had the dragon not taken out his explosive

thats a bigger 'if' than you can fit in the grand canyon.

Luck of the draw really. The dragon could have easily just swooped in to eat him. Or not have seen him since i believe they decided to try this when the dragon's eyesight was the weakest.

i disagree about the van zan having no chance of getting down from the bird-feeder perch he foolishly placed himself on. the dragon had to turn for another pass, while van zan just stood there staring.

by fleeing he may have at least bought more time. instead he met the dragon half way in mid-air and saved him the trouble.

He had another chance but honestly when you are facing a giant fire breathing wrecking machine that can kill you at a moments notice, and you just lost your only hope of downing the beast you might not think about every singe available option and your odds all that clearly. I think he figured he was dead anyway and decided try to at least harm the beast in some way.

The other points with him being a dick and not following advice and getting his men killed ect are all valid imo but this one is not

Originally posted by juggerman
I think he figured he was dead anyway and decided try to at least harm the beast in some way.

this is what really bothers me. he was standing on a concrete structure which the dragon was likely going to crash through. he would have been better off standing his ground as he could then be able to actually swing his ax instead of just pose mid-air, and furthermore add the chance of the dragon injuring itself on the tower.

jumping off was the most considerate thing he could have done for the dragon.

😂 I agree completely but again when you're in the middle of the shit your brain may not be firing on all cylinders.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're still ignoring that he went against his own advice and tried taking on the male when it was at its most lethal, at night. Do I have to do more screen caps?

He used Quinn and Quinn used him. It's not like Van Zan had any other choice, all his men and most of Quinn's were killed cos of Van Zan.

How is ignoring your own advice not foolish, especially when it leads to a blunder? How is ignoring someone's warning which ends up costing the mission, many lives and a base not foolish? How is jumping to certain death instead of trying to survive and possibly have another go at your enemy not foolish?

They failed. The male dragon was a beast and a bit of luck was involved in Quinn taking it out anyways even in the best conditions for the humans. To me I look at this like taking half court shots. Most of them don't go in but luck is involved when they do. Killing the dragon was a half court shot. Initially failing against the alpha dragon is nothing to scoff at. Zan survived and simply came back. Trial and error.

Going in with those numbers wasn't foolish. They simply were defeated the first time. People died as a result of this but Quinn knew Zan's intentions were always for the betterment of mankind. That isn't in question and so they simply went in with their backs up against the wall. This is usually how the movies go down. At the end of the day the dragon was defeated and Zan gave his life for the cause. Admirable.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
the only purpose quinn served in the end, which killed the dragon and saved mankind* was errand boy. he delivered the dragon slayer weapon to quinn. all hail van zan: epic badass errand boy

*millions of years in the future when the male dragon re-awoke to an advanced civilization which has been prepared to stomp it out if ever it showed up again.

Originally posted by quanchi112
At the end of the day

Originally posted by focus4chumps

Originally posted by quanchi112
He gave his life for the cause. What opinion do you have for soldiers who die for their cause ?

depends on the circumstances. for example: did he die throwing a claymore at an enemy tank's treads or did he just dive under the tank treads?
one is a hero, the other an idiot.