Originally posted by Lestov16
So what? Of course he failed, but the intent was still there, and considering that this argument is about Van Zan's motives, the intent is all that matters here.
Don't tell me. Quanchi's the "he swung the axe" and "was swinging the entire time" guy. I know Van Zan failed to swing.
Van Zan's intention of swinging the axe and failing to swing doesn't negate that he knew he was making a suicide jump though.
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he swung it. The intention also makes your point stupid and go against your case.Film does.
Wiki does.
You're contradicting yourself again.
Film doesn't show Van Zan swinging an axe (unless you count the swing he made at the already dead female dragon), film shows Van Zan jumping with and axe and being swallowed.
Wiki supports that he intended to swing only. Film shows his intentions failed.
But he only made the suicide jump because of the circumstances, i.e. his odds for death outweighed his odds at escape. Even you said that his chances were slim.
Even if we worked off of the logic that Van Zan will commit suicide in any situation in which he has a n<50% chance of survival, he still wouldn't lose here because he suffers no threat whatsoever from an inanimate woodchipper. He has a 100+% chance at survival, so there's no need for a suicide jump.
Originally posted by RobtardNo, I'm not.
You're contradicting yourself again.Film doesn't show Van Zan swinging an axe (unless you count the swing he made at the already dead female dragon), film shows Van Zan jumping with and axe and being swallowed.
Wiki supports that he intended to swing only. Film shows his intentions failed.
Yes, his entire jump was swinging it.
Wiki supports me as does the film. Intent also proves your point was moot even though it was wrong.
Originally posted by Lestov16
But he only made the suicide jump because of the circumstances, i.e. his odds for death outweighed his odds at escape. Even you said that his chances were slim.Even if we worked off of the logic that Van Zan will commit suicide in any situation in which he has a n<50% chance of survival, he still wouldn't lose here because he suffers [b]no threat whatsoever
from an inanimate woodchipper. He has a 100+% chance at survival, so there's no need for a suicide jump. [/B]
We covered that already. Some chance > no chance. Rational person would take the chance in lieu of suicide.
What you describe would be the actions that a non idiotic and rational character would take when confronted with a wood-chipper as an enemy. Van Zan doesn't fall into that category with his idiotic moves and irrational behavior.
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I'm not.Yes, his entire jump was swinging it.
Wiki supports me as does the film. Intent also proves your point was moot even though it was wrong.
Flips.
Well, still refuse to believe you don't understand what "swinging an axe" is. So more flips.
Film doesn't and wiki only supports your "intent" point. Which makes sense. He didn't swing the axe, but you'll continue to do flips cos you're unable to admit you're wrong even when visual proof is shown. Just what you always do.
Originally posted by Robtard
We covered that already. Some chance > no chance. Rational person would take the chance in lieu of suicide.What you describe would be the actions that a non idiotic and rational character would take when confronted with a wood-chipper as an enemy. Van Zan doesn't fall into that category with his idiotic moves and irrational behavior.
So was Data irrational in Star Trek Nemesis? He didn't have to fire the phaser himself, instead of setting the phaser to overload and beaming out. Would he commit suicide in a woodchipper too?
Originally posted by Lestov16
So was Data irrational in Star Trek Nemesis? He didn't have to fire the phaser himself, instead of setting the phaser to overload and beaming out. Would he commit suicide in a woodchipper too?
Data had to use his emergency teleporter beacon to save Picard, he wasn't able to beam out.
Originally posted by Lestov16
So was Data irrational in Star Trek Nemesis? He didn't have to fire the phaser himself, instead of setting the phaser to overload and beaming out. Would he commit suicide in a woodchipper too?
No, Data was not irrational at all.
Data couldn't beam out, he used his single-use transporter to save Picard and had he not fired his phaser, the Thaleron weapon would have fired and killed everyone on the Enterprise along with Picard who was now on board.
So while Data knew he would die from firing his phaser, he did it to save hundreds of others. ie that's a sacrifice.
edit: I see SM covered the basics already
Originally posted by RobtardZan wasn't rational. He was obsessed with killing dragons. He was their boogeyman. He also Wasnt killing himself he was trying to kill the dragon.
We covered that already. Some chance > no chance. Rational person would take the chance in lieu of suicide.What you describe would be the actions that a non idiotic and rational character would take when confronted with a wood-chipper as an enemy. Van Zan doesn't fall into that category with his idiotic moves and irrational behavior.
If you believe he'd jump in have at it. Rational people don't. I could care less if you think you have unicorns and leprechauns in your garage.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Zan wasn't rational. He was obsessed with killing dragons. He was their boogeyman. He also Wasnt killing himself he was trying to kill the dragon.If you believe he'd jump in have at it. Rational people don't. I could care less if you think you have unicorns and leprechauns in your garage.
So in your mind you think Van Zan thought he had a chance of surviving after his feet left the tower?
Another rant. Stop. We're having a discussion.
Originally posted by juggerman
This would be suicide tho yes?
well not in the pointless sense of van zan's suicide. for 2 reasons in particular:
1-he was dead already, with vitals presumably crushed and coughing up blood. it was the end for him anyway.
2-the predator just didnt count on dutch being so quick to get away and take cover, but it was a highly effectual last attack.
whereas with van zan's suicide:
1-he was completely in tact physically even though he was batshit-butthurt and had an escape route which he ignored.
2-his attack would have been equally ineffectual, even in the best case scenario of him hitting the dragon square on the nose with his axe blade. even if he HAD swung the axe, it would have done the exact same amount of damage as if it were a feather duster.
🙂
Originally posted by RobtardThat was what he chose to do in the circumstances before him. That's in character most might try to run but not Zan. You implore cowardice I do not. You run from me while I keep coming for you.
How you think Van Zan jumping off a tall tower and towards a gigantic dragon means he had a chance is telling of you being irrational.Strawman tactic 🙂
No, I'm attempting to have a conversation and you know I am right.
Originally posted by juggerman
This would be suicide tho yes? Yes they can activate the bomb and then remove it
First film, the Predator activated the bomb after he was defeated/was dying from having a log crush him.
In one of the AVP they show a Pred activating the bomb on top of a pyramid just as he's about to be overrun and killed by a swarm of Xenos.
In both those instances, they had no slim but possible escape. Did I miss one?