There is 16 to get by climbing on totem like statues where you have to solve geometrical puzzles.These are scattered around the world.Puzzles are pretty easy once you get all you can unlock a chamber on the Assassins island.
It looks pretty cool kinda like a superhero armor.While wearing it bullets do no damage to you melee attacks can still hurt you though.
Is it bad to say that I'm still not really feeling it from Edward as a protagonist? Barring the fact that
Spoiler:, I really ain't finding myself connected to his plight the same way I was with Ezio and Connor (who, no, I didn't enjoy quite as much as Ezio, but will still say he's far from as bad as what people who were completey spoiled by Ezio would say of him). The best I can really say is that he at least amuses me, but I found Ezio's growth in character to be far more substantial in any one game of his, and found Connor's relationships with the Homestead residents far more endearing. I do find myself fascinated with Edward's initial encounters with the Assassins and Templars though. It's refreshing and makes sense given his profession. Suffice it to say he's passable, but overrated (not to the extent of Altair, mind you, but then his only accomplishments were based on off-screen exposition; Revelations helped, didn't cut it all the way through for me).
he suffers a very unceremonious death outside of the game
I'll give him time though, and let me just say that this really has no bearing on the gameplay, where things really matter here. They wanted to capitalize on what was easily AC3's most well-received addition to the series, and they did it in SPADES. I've spent no less time ship-boarding and fort-taking as I have playing the main campaign.
But to get my only real complaints on the game, the controls, out of the way, Edward feels a little bit clunkier than Connor/Haytham did, and that problem seems to extend to combat; I neither know nor care what the general consensus is, dual cutlasses are a goddamn letdown. I'll take Connor's tomahawk anyday.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Is it bad to say that I'm still not really feeling it from Edward as a protagonist? Barring the fact that he suffers a very unceremonious death outside of the game, I really ain't finding myself connected to his plight the same way I was with Ezio and Connor (who, no, I didn't enjoy quite as much as Ezio, but will still say he's far from as bad as what people who were completey spoiled by Ezio would say of him). The best I can really say is that he at least amuses me, but I found Ezio's growth in character to be far more substantial in any one game of his, and found Connor's relationships with the Homestead residents far more endearing. I do find myself fascinated with Edward's initial encounters with the Assassins and Templars though. It's refreshing and makes sense given his profession. Suffice it to say he's passable, but overrated (not to the extent of Altair, mind you, but then his only accomplishments were based on off-screen exposition; Revelations helped, didn't cut it all the way through for me).I'll give him time though, and let me just say that this really has no bearing on the gameplay, where things really matter here. They wanted to capitalize on what was easily AC3's most well-received addition to the series, and they did it in SPADES. I've spent no less time ship-boarding and fort-taking as I have playing the main campaign.
But to get my only real complaints on the game, the controls, out of the way, Edward feels a little bit clunkier than Connor/Haytham did, and that problem seems to extend to combat; I neither know nor care what the general consensus is, dual cutlasses are a goddamn letdown. I'll take Connor's tomahawk anyday.
Edward's a welcome change from the usually more stoic Connor, and to a lesser extent, Ezio. That said, he's got balls. Pick-pocketing the Templar leaders after meeting up with them and having to improvise up most of the shit he had to say and do, was just awesome.
I have unlocked the entire map, explored most of the islands, nearly bought all upgrades for the Jackdaw, and I've just started Sequence 5. Leaving the bulk of the map open to the player for exploration in the early sequences is something I liked. Harpooning is also a decent little mini-game.
All that's left to explore are the sunken wrecks, a couple of islands, and a small section of Kingston. ACIII was stated to have free-roam with the ship, but it never materialized. In a way, I'm glad they left it for ACIV.
He controls the same to me as far as exploration goes. Animations are largely the same as Connor's, with a couple of variations. Funny how Edward can free-run across trees, whereas Haytham couldn't.
Combat's a little different, I agree. The lack of double counter kills (pity), a greater emphasis on gun-play, and two melee weapons make combat less satisfying this time around. Never mind that it is largely unchanged from ACIII. On the flip-side, there's free-aim.
My only other gripes with this game are the present day gamplay sequences, a handful of bugs with the Assassin Contracts, and the fact that this is titled ACIV instead of an 'expansion' on ACIII which is what ACIV is, much like Brotherhood and Revelations were to ACII.
I honestly preferred how the story handled Connor's stoicism than how this game has been handling the comparatively nonchalant Edward; change ain't always good. It's like they tried touching upon a younger Ezio's brashness for the sake of brashness and making some sort of pattern between their personalities, but to this end, suffice it to say that Connor is a much better composed stoic character than Edward is an extroverted everyman imo. I think the game is relying too much on his being a pirate to really substantiate his rather unapolagetic methods, especially in a world where the plot hardly allows that level of suspension of disbelief or artistic liberty compared to something more fantastical.
Not to mention free-aim doesn't do a thing to make up for what's simply a sloppier-handling fighter, and it's just plain ****ing worthless in combat tbh, much less would I call that a flip-side in the all-around inferior combat. The only use I've yet found for it is hunting, which I'm hard-pressed to see how it's any better than in AC3 as a gameplay function besides being able to make only the tackiest-looking outfits--health upgrading comes and goes far too fast for it to stay as central as advertised when on land.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
I honestly preferred how the story handled Connor's stoicism than how this game has been handling the comparatively nonchalant Edward; change ain't always good. It's like they tried touching upon a younger Ezio's brashness for the sake of brashness and making some sort of pattern between their personalities, but to this end, suffice it to say that Connor is a much better composed stoic character than Edward is an extroverted everyman imo. I think the game is relying too much on his being a pirate to really substantiate his rather unapolagetic methods, especially in a world where the plot hardly allows that level of suspension of disbelief or artistic liberty compared to something more fantastical.Not to mention free-aim doesn't do a thing to make up for what's simply a sloppier-handling fighter, and it's just plain ****ing worthless in combat tbh, much less would I call that a flip-side in the all-around inferior combat. The only use I've yet found for it is hunting, which I'm hard-pressed to see how it's any better than in AC3 as a gameplay function besides being able to make only the tackiest-looking outfits--health upgrading comes and goes far too fast for it to stay as central as advertised when on land.
Eh, when they give us two revenge stories with two characters such as Ezio and Connor, in succession, change is needed. Connor's a better character than Edward so far, but given that I haven't seen much of Edward's story, I can't really judge Edward.
It's worthless in combat. I've only used it to shoot barrels on ships, when fighting becomes quite chaotic. It's much more useful when you want to take care of enemies while hidden in bushes, without engaging in combat.
Agreed. Hunting & the subsequent crafting offers little impact.
I can see where you're coming from when it comes to addressing what's technically two revenge stories, but I do think there are at least distinctions between Ezio's and Connor's. Where it was a central driving force for Ezio for the better chunk of AC2, it felt a little more like just an initial spark for Connor, especially considering the little twist partway through that just so happened to not sway his goals--while he was still obsessed in taking down Charles Lee, it wasn't jsut for the sake of revenge (ie, "My mother's blood may stain another's hands, but Charles Lee is no less a monster."😉. But yeah, like you said, I think Edward's worth giving more time at this point before judging in full.
And to be fair, what I say on hunting can be better summed up as the rewards or benefits being better, just not as overwhelmingly so as some people claim (ie, actually comparing it to Far Cry 3's). The game as a whole is still proving to be an improvement overall t what it focuses on compared to 3, this coming from someone who had considered 3 my favorite since 2, so I just wouldn't quite say it's superior in "every conceivable way" as IGN said, but rather enough ways where it matters based on how it handles its mechanics and priorities.
Bear in mind Edward's handling on land and in combat are otherwise my only real complaints about the game and my not being quite that engaged in his arc is just a nitpick; everything about seafaring and the activities associated with the ocean are certainly proving to be nothing less than entertaining, and Ubisoft made a great choice in having it largely play out at the player's own leisure.I just wanted to get my initial complaints out of the way before getting to talk about any upcoming parts I may find myself enjoying, and between the fort-taking being the most action-packed in the series since its conception ala Brotherhood, Harpooning, Smuggler's dens, substantial and worthwhile yet conveniently streamlined upgrades, satisfying expansion on the naval mechanics, and the relatively consistent stealth mechanics, my complaints aren't nearly as harsh or impacting as I had made them out to sound. While I have run into one or two more bugs than I'd wanted, I have faith it's notthing that can't be patched.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Eh, it's still arcade-y. Still a lot of fun though, especially since you can now board enemy vessels, though that gets old after a while, and you just want to sink the bastards.But it's more fun exploring the sea than it is the cities. IMO.
This is sad, given that one of the game's hooks is history relieving, and the ship movement and combat is less realistic than you know, parkour.
So I'd beaten ACIV a couple of nights ago, and am just doing some extra seafaring to build up to taking on the legendary ships.
My overall opinion on the game remains largely the same as it was early on, both the bad and the good, so I could say that I give the game points for consistency. I can really only word my judgement on this game in a take-and-give manner: Mission structure of the campaign is the most repetitive since AC1, and would be nearly as mind-numbing were it not for the game's overall scale, attempts at getting a little craftier with the tailing missions later on down the road (not that it completely undoes the monotony of it), and player-based pacing with the amount of content benefiting the main game really carrying things forward very well--it's always a satisfaction to see the upgrades of the Jackdaw in such a first hand manner.
I've covered my opinion the combat plenty of times before. In short: Combat is a 120% downgrade from AC3, and there's too much of it for this flaw to be otherwise inconsequential.
Stealth segments are plentiful, and solid altogether besides a few deadbeat ones in the main campaign (them being the ones that most often follow directly after the infuriatingly abundant tailing missions), but nothing compared to Brotherhood's "Da Vinci Invention" side missions imho. Most of the time, there's simply too many guards for the additions to gameplay to take as much advantage as they clearly intended it to. The campaign mission where you had to clear a path in Long Bay was great though, and I think the game could have SERIOUSLY benefited from more parts like that instead of whoring out tailing missions under some pretense that they were the series' most popular stealth sections. This game makes me just hate them.
People complained alot over AC3's initial glitches, I just gotta say none I encountered were as bad as some of IV's. At least three to five times, I had to restart the mission because the controls decided to have Edward control as if he was Connor when inside the main house of the Davenport Homestead. Then there's at least oneor two islands with Assassin Contracts that for some reason are unable to be interacted with, thus currently neutering my chances at the unlockables associated with them. And this is only a minor one, but whoever the hell Juan Garcia is, he must be both omnipresent and invisible, because his "Kill him" marker has not disappeared from the map or the gameplay in any area for as long as I can remember.
Seafaring is the game's main forteand they took it and all elements pertaining to it up to eleven, and that is definitely what saves the game from all the otherwise obvious drawbacks from AC3. Taking over the forts was by far the most exhilarating one imo, and how the game entails playing at your own pace for bigger scale or smaller made it so that the first one I took over was probably the hardest. Having a few extra songs on your Shanty playlist isn't exactly the biggest improvement over the Benjamin Franklin inventions if you ask me, but they at least added some level of gameplay importance to chasing the flying stationary. Harpooning is fun, if streamlined, and it only gets better the more you manage to recognize every animal's patterns and sharpen your skills accordingly. I barely ever pass up White Whale events.
Edward just isn't that interesting a protagonist to me, I'm gonna say that bluntly here and now. His flashier, upbeat side was amusing, but largley felt like just an attempt at capitalizing on what made Ezio so initially distinct from Altair. The difference is that Altair was and still is a bland character on all accounts, his 'cold, stoic badass' demeanor really just being a lack of any kind of demeanor. Connor was far more legitmately a composed, but passionate and endearing character who's traits and motives were not only clear, but his layers beyond were actually existent and interactive to a point in things like the Homestead missions. With Altair, they just introduced an arrogant ass for twenty minutes, erased that and made him an otherwise unexpressive and unengaging catalyst to control for 90% of the game, and then he expects us to find believability in his "hey I was an ass, my bad" bit near the last couple of missions. Edward is certainly better on a writing standpoint, but in the same ways Ezio and Connor were as well, and also partly because they added in a sense of charm to him, but that charm wasn't enough for me to overlook how gleefully ignorant he was about what an unrepentant ass-hat he was for just as long as Altair was a blank slate. When they finally did have the plot kick in Edward's big change, it felt like a contrived, last-minute plot dump to me. It was believable, but still not as entertaining to watch from a narrative point of view as Ezio's easily more organic growth in maturity but maintaining of his identity and most appealing traits throughout any one of his games or Connor's tenacity and strength of will being tested and refined at every turn. I understand they went for more of an anti-hero type character with Edward, but it was simply too static for the nature of this game's narrative in my opinion. I'm honestly looking more forward to Adewale's character arc in Freedom Cry right now than I ever did with Edward at any point in this game.
Altogether, the game is not NEARLY as big a jump forward from ACIII as some people might tout it to be, especially considering all the backsteps it takes from what AC3's engine introduced, but at the same time, that's also cuz AC3 isn't even a tenth as big a travesty as some people try to make it out to be. ACIV's still excellent for how well its obvious priorities carried it in a way that I don't think enough Adventure games do when trying to think outside the box (which is a principal problem I have with a game like Zelda: Majora's Mask). At it's worst, I hold it and ACIII in equal regard, which is pretty damn high within the genre and the series. If you find I'm too vocal over the negatives and not enough over the positives, it's simply because I'm too busy enjoying the positives to find the words to comment on them quite as lucidly, and really, isn't that the best thing that a positive aspect of a game can do? Render you speechless?
And Anne Bonny needs to stop being so distractingly hot.
Well AC4 is fun but you are going to notice that the combat downgraded a bit. Nonetheless the naval missions are funny and taking forts is really enjoyable. Though some may encounter glitches with the assassination contracts but I've yet to have this problem. Also the diving and hunting mini-games are a nice addition as well...then there's the boring board games that AC3 was riddled with too.
Overall its an entertaining game and I can't wait for the Freedom Cry DLC...hopefully it won't cost $30 like the Tyranny of Washington DLC.
Everything related to the sea and ships is what's fun about the game. The worst that can be said is that it can become routine in the wrong hands. Everything else is heinously dumbed down from AC2/AC3 in whatever areas they were known best for. Combat, platforming, land traversal, city scale, and mission structure, animal hunting (besides harpooning), all played to the bare minimum at best (besides again, combat and mission structure, which are constantly swung between bare minimum and past the lowest common denominator). Havanah is the only noteworthy city, and not only is it nothing compared to Venice or the Frontier, but barely any gameplay is actually done there.
And as far as the characters in the plot go, you'll realize you're playing as the least interesting one. Hell, they made
Spoiler:than they tried to with Edward. Blackbeard was plenty entertaining, if still a stubborn dipshit (in fact, this game almost shamelessly makes all the pirates look like idiots in retrospect), and everyone else either
Desmond more interesting posthumously through the side content in modern sections
Spoiler:. Haytham was shown to be a ****ing borderline psychopath in AC3, but at least he offered some grander perspective between the Assassins and Templars when interacting with Connor. None of that is here. So basically, the characters are all fine and entertaining, but barely if ever relatable or endearing in any manner.
went mad or was was as bland as Altair
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
So I'd beaten ACIV a couple of nights ago, and am just doing some extra seafaring to build up to taking on the legendary ships.My overall opinion on the game remains largely the same as it was early on, both the bad and the good, so I could say that I give the game points for consistency. I can really only word my judgement on this game in a take-and-give manner: Mission structure of the campaign is the most repetitive since AC1, and would be nearly as mind-numbing were it not for the game's overall scale, attempts at getting a little craftier with the tailing missions later on down the road (not that it completely undoes the monotony of it), and player-based pacing with the amount of content benefiting the main game really carrying things forward very well--it's always a satisfaction to see the upgrades of the Jackdaw in such a first hand manner.
I've covered my opinion the combat plenty of times before. In short: Combat is a 120% downgrade from AC3, and there's too much of it for this flaw to be otherwise inconsequential.
Stealth segments are plentiful, and solid altogether besides a few deadbeat ones in the main campaign (them being the ones that most often follow directly after the infuriatingly abundant tailing missions), but nothing compared to Brotherhood's "Da Vinci Invention" side missions imho. Most of the time, there's simply too many guards for the additions to gameplay to take as much advantage as they clearly intended it to. The campaign mission where you had to clear a path in Long Bay was great though, and I think the game could have SERIOUSLY benefited from more parts like that instead of whoring out tailing missions under some pretense that they were the series' most popular stealth sections. This game makes me just hate them.
People complained alot over AC3's initial glitches, I just gotta say none I encountered were as bad as some of IV's. At least three to five times, I had to restart the mission because the controls decided to have Edward control as if he was Connor when inside the main house of the Davenport Homestead. Then there's at least oneor two islands with Assassin Contracts that for some reason are unable to be interacted with, thus currently neutering my chances at the unlockables associated with them. And this is only a minor one, but whoever the hell Juan Garcia is, he must be both omnipresent and invisible, because his "Kill him" marker has not disappeared from the map or the gameplay in any area for as long as I can remember.
Seafaring is the game's main forteand they took it and all elements pertaining to it up to eleven, and that is definitely what saves the game from all the otherwise obvious drawbacks from AC3. Taking over the forts was by far the most exhilarating one imo, and how the game entails playing at your own pace for bigger scale or smaller made it so that the first one I took over was probably the hardest. Having a few extra songs on your Shanty playlist isn't exactly the biggest improvement over the Benjamin Franklin inventions if you ask me, but they at least added some level of gameplay importance to chasing the flying stationary. Harpooning is fun, if streamlined, and it only gets better the more you manage to recognize every animal's patterns and sharpen your skills accordingly. I barely ever pass up White Whale events.
Edward just isn't that interesting a protagonist to me, I'm gonna say that bluntly here and now. His flashier, upbeat side was amusing, but largley felt like just an attempt at capitalizing on what made Ezio so initially distinct from Altair. The difference is that Altair was and still is a bland character on all accounts, his 'cold, stoic badass' demeanor really just being a lack of any kind of demeanor. Connor was far more legitmately a composed, but passionate and endearing character who's traits and motives were not only clear, but his layers beyond were actually existent and interactive to a point in things like the Homestead missions. With Altair, they just introduced an arrogant ass for twenty minutes, erased that and made him an otherwise unexpressive and unengaging catalyst to control for 90% of the game, and then he expects us to find believability in his "hey I was an ass, my bad" bit near the last couple of missions. Edward is certainly better on a writing standpoint, but in the same ways Ezio and Connor were as well, and also partly because they added in a sense of charm to him, but that charm wasn't enough for me to overlook how gleefully ignorant he was about what an unrepentant ass-hat he was for just as long as Altair was a blank slate. When they finally did have the plot kick in Edward's big change, it felt like a contrived, last-minute plot dump to me. It was believable, but still not as entertaining to watch from a narrative point of view as Ezio's easily more organic growth in maturity but maintaining of his identity and most appealing traits throughout any one of his games or Connor's tenacity and strength of will being tested and refined at every turn. I understand they went for more of an anti-hero type character with Edward, but it was simply too static for the nature of this game's narrative in my opinion. I'm honestly looking more forward to Adewale's character arc in Freedom Cry right now than I ever did with Edward at any point in this game.
Altogether, the game is not NEARLY as big a jump forward from ACIII as some people might tout it to be, especially considering all the backsteps it takes from what AC3's engine introduced, but at the same time, that's also cuz AC3 isn't even a tenth as big a travesty as some people try to make it out to be. ACIV's still excellent for how well its obvious priorities carried it in a way that I don't think enough Adventure games do when trying to think outside the box (which is a principal problem I have with a game like Zelda: Majora's Mask). At it's worst, I hold it and ACIII in equal regard, which is pretty damn high within the genre and the series. If you find I'm too vocal over the negatives and not enough over the positives, it's simply because I'm too busy enjoying the positives to find the words to comment on them quite as lucidly, and really, isn't that the best thing that a positive aspect of a game can do? Render you speechless?
And Anne Bonny needs to stop being so distractingly hot.
I haven't gotten very far yet. Only sequence 4. I've been focusing on 100% syncing, and getting every collectable in every area I visit before moving on to a new area. For the most part, I agree with everything you said.
Ezio is my favorite assassin because of how much I loved his characters charisma and drive to do whats right. Haytham is my all time favorite character in the series because of his proper manner, charm, and craziness. So far, Edward seems like a mix of both of them, but not as likable because of how much of an absolute tool he is. Maybe he'll end up topping Ezio for me by the end, but he hasn't come close to Haytham, and I don't think he will.
Anyway, so far the game has been a blast. I'm not much of a completionist, but this game has made the exploration genuinely fun to the point that I'm going for 100%. I like that everything you do actually has a tangible reward, unlike AC3. Gameplay wise, this is my favorite AC to date.
Story wise, I'm not so sure. I liked AC2 and AC3's stories the most. I'm not sure just yet what this games story is trying to do. It seems like it lacks aim. Then again, I'm only on sequence 4 so maybe that will change.
Not to sound like I'm backpedaling on my pros and cons, but to be fair, the game was meant to be a little more self contained and lighter in tone on a plot standpoint from the start. At least in terms of the hisotrical period. To that end, the same can be applied to Edward, since there's virtually no intended interaction between him and Desmond like there was with Ezio being a catalyst for the First civ's messages, or Connor who's relationship with Haytham has a few parallels/correlations between Desmond and William. You could say he's more his own man in that sense, which goes well with his whole being a pirate thing. I doubt that was the intention, but it does seem like a nice bit of Fridge Brilliance when you think it like that.
The progress of the overarching story in the modern day sections are more subtle, but connections between the two eras do exist and become all the more wholesome eventually, especially the more you manage to hack comps and read the 'sticky notes' and such in the modern sections, and take the time to read the manuscripts you can find in bottles when in the Animus.
And again, all the subject 17 memos do a surprisingly good job of giving Desmond a little bit more relatability to him, especially with his (might I add, brilliantly performed) voice messages. Also, he apparently likes kittens.
Also, one funny tidbit in terms of unlockable vids in the modern sections involves the little research presentations from Abstergo to decide which historical figures (the previous AC protagonists), to allow the entertainment branch to research, and all of Desmond's previous Assassin ancestors (as in every previous player character besides Aveline) were all given the shaft while hearing Abstergo trying to twist as much of their background to make them sound as evil or unappealing as possible. 'Typical Templar Trolling Twists' for sure, but it's made even funnier when you get to Ezio, considering the fact that the voice speaking on the presentations is clearly Roger Craig Smith.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Not to sound like I'm backpedaling on my pros and cons, but to be fair, the game was meant to be a little more self contained and lighter in tone on a plot standpoint from the start. At least in terms of the hisotrical period. To that end, the same can be applied to Edward, since there's virtually no intended interaction between him and Desmond like there was with Ezio being a catalyst for the First civ's messages, or Connor who's relationship with Haytham has a few parallels/correlations between Desmond and William. You could say he's more his own man in that sense, which goes well with his whole being a pirate thing. I doubt that was the intention, but it does seem like a nice bit of Fridge Brilliance when you think it like that.The progress of the overarching story in the modern day sections are more subtle, but connections between the two eras do exist and become all the more wholesome eventually, especially the more you manage to hack comps and read the 'sticky notes' and such in the modern sections, and take the time to read the manuscripts you can find in bottles when in the Animus.
And again, all the subject 17 memos do a surprisingly good job of giving Desmond a little bit more relatability to him, especially with his (might I add, brilliantly performed) voice messages. Also, he apparently likes kittens.
Also, one funny tidbit in terms of unlockable vids in the modern sections involves the little research presentations from Abstergo to decide which historical figures (the previous AC protagonists), to allow the entertainment branch to research, and all of Desmond's previous Assassin ancestors (as in every previous player character besides Aveline) were all given the shaft while hearing Abstergo trying to twist as much of their background to make them sound as evil or unappealing as possible. 'Typical Templar Trolling Twists' for sure, but it's made even funnier when you get to Ezio, considering the fact that the voice speaking on the presentations is clearly Roger Craig Smith.
The new modern day take is a significant improvement over Desmonds story IMO. I never really liked Desmond, so I was happy when he bit the dust.
As for all those little unlockable tidbits, I had no idea that was included. Time to go hunting in modern day. Thanks for the tip
The more I revisit all the ancient ruins on some of the islands, the more I'm starting to hope the next Assassin's Creed game touches on ancient Mayan or general Mesoamerican culture and the likes. How thrilling would it be to see an Assassin's Creed game's vision of a thriving Machu Picchu as an Assassin in those times? Or hell, even just traveling to the ruins through the countryside as Edward or Connor on some sort of Assassin's pilgrimage ie Ezio circa Revelations. I don't think the series has ever quite tackled such a mountainous region, and while I know alot of people would disagree, I'd rather see that right now than a setting in Japan or China (though I'd still accept the next game taking place in there; the potential for those eras was always bursting at the top).