Alien: Covenant

Started by -Pr-64 pages

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
A HUGE hit.. crybaby

We waited 5 years for the writers to decide to throw out everything interesting that was presented in Prometheus. To me the movie shat on Prometheus. We didn't need to see the xenomorphs in the next film or any of the other fan service. I thought they would do some simple fan service with Covenant and then get on to some elements from Prometheus, but it looks like they threw out the more interesting elements, the grander mythology and are going to pursue some stupid tropes instead. Because of retarded fans bitching about Prometheus Ridley has settled for some stupid tropes for throw-away entertainment like he's trying to make the Fast and the Furious franchise in space because they're not doubt make it more and more ridiculous as they go.

Random thoughts:

First half or so is an awesome little sci-fi horror film. Ridley does excel at horror.

I actually thought the little character development elements were good, humanized the characters very well with some great actors.

Action scenes are not so good and felt thrown in unnecessarily, same with the xenomorph. Action scenes were very dark and not particularly engaging.

CGI wasn't very good.

Why did it take several writers to turn what could have been a fascinating mythology into a stupid trope of

Spoiler:
an Android mad scientist with Daddy Issues. And the fact that David killed Shaw when he truly loved her is effing stupid and not even consistent. And he can control the creatures?? That's [b]f
ucking stupid!

The Engineers and the "black goo" are what was set up from Prometheus and their origins and uses would have been fascinating, but apparently "fans" want to see xenomorphs again and again instead of something more interesting. Fuck!

And I've read the comics that they did recently and it's obvious that they completely changed what they wanted to do because in the comics the xenos are all over LV-223. So if

Spoiler:
David created the xenos then they are going to have to explain how they got on to LV-223 and other planets

Goddamnit, the series is an even bigger mess now. The Alien films have always been sort of flawed (especially Resurrection, haha), but this is just getting to be too much. [/B]

I can talk all day and night about the issues Prometheus had, but the things it did well, the questions it asked? They REALLY dropped the ball in this movie. It doesn't deliver on any of the promise of Prometheus, nor did it really answer the questions people had after that movie imo.

My own feelings are that they wasted Shaw. They wasted the Engineers. They completely bum-****ed the lore by taking away what was one of the key, defining themes in the Alien movies:

That no matter how advanced or how clever you are, this is a species that cannot be controlled, and cannot be contained. Even Alien Resurrection got that right.

And that's not all. They ****ed with lifecycles, they made

Spoiler:
David the ****ing creator, which for me, just ruins twenty years of established lore
. The Xeno birthing scene was AWFUL.

If not for Fassbender and McBride, I really wouldn't have cared about any of the characters in this movie.

The one thing I will say though, based on what I've heard people saying online: I don't think that we were supposed to be unsure that

Spoiler:
David had switched places with Walter
. I think the intent was for us to know without any doubt, and to wonder when the characters would find out. It was just so badly done (like a lot of the movie).

And sure, people might say that not agreeing with Ridley's vision/decisions doesn't objectively make it a bad movie. And they'd be right. It makes the movie less likeable to me, but as far as quality goes, the bad writing, unfulfilling (not to mention stupid) characters and what ends up being a huge lack of tension, do that just fine.

That ending was grim as ****. My boy Walter 🙁

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Technically it's a sequel to Prometheus, but it's written in such a way as to rehash some major elements of Alien and ignore all the questions raised in Prometheus. It's a brilliant strategy: piss off everyone.

meh.... I can wait for Red Box.

^ Its all because of the complaints about Prometheus. We're lucky they acknowledged that film at all.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
That ending was grim as ****. My boy Walter 🙁

Yes that was pretty sad. Albeit predictable.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I can talk all day and night about the issues Prometheus had, but the things it did well, the questions it asked? They REALLY dropped the ball in this movie. It doesn't deliver on any of the promise of Prometheus, nor did it really answer the questions people had after that movie imo.

My own feelings are that they wasted Shaw. They wasted the Engineers. They completely bum-****ed the lore by taking away what was one of the key, defining themes in the Alien movies:

That no matter how advanced or how clever you are, this is a species that cannot be controlled, and cannot be contained. Even Alien Resurrection got that right.

And that's not all. They ****ed with lifecycles, they made

Spoiler:
David the ****ing creator, which for me, just ruins twenty years of established lore
. The Xeno birthing scene was AWFUL.

If not for Fassbender and McBride, I really wouldn't have cared about any of the characters in this movie.

The one thing I will say though, based on what I've heard people saying online: I don't think that we were supposed to be unsure that

Spoiler:
David had switched places with Walter
. I think the intent was for us to know without any doubt, and to wonder when the characters would find out. It was just so badly done (like a lot of the movie).

And sure, people might say that not agreeing with Ridley's vision/decisions doesn't objectively make it a bad movie. And they'd be right. It makes the movie less likeable to me, but as far as quality goes, the bad writing, unfulfilling (not to mention stupid) characters and what ends up being a huge lack of tension, do that just fine.

Well said. Yeah, Prometheus brought up questions like...

-Where did the black goo come from?
-Did the Engineers create it or find it?
-What sort of rituals do they use it for?
-Why were they going to take it to Earth?
-Why did the Engineers create mankind and then decide to destroy them?
-etc

But they ignored all of those interesting questions and instead explain where the xenomorphs come from, with the stupidest explanation possible.

Spoiler:
Mad scientist David with Daddy issues
is the worst explanation for the xenomorphs they could possibly explore.

Shaw and Engineers wasted indeed. I fear my interest in this series died with this movie. Truly heart breaking.

crybaby

And another thing I find odd: Ridley Scott changed his filmmaking techniques. The CGI was not well integrated with live puppetry at all and there was even some stupid shaky cam. I'm pretty sure that was why he didn't use the CGI Fifield in Prometheus because it took you out of the movie. Well that's exactly what happened to me with AC.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Its all because of the complaints about Prometheus. We're lucky they acknowledged that film at all.

It would have been better for the lore if they had left David out of it entirely.

Basically what everyone else said. Screw David. Poor Elizabeth. Liked Walter the most in the entire movie. Lore screwed. Neomorph coolest things in film

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Well said. Yeah, Prometheus brought up questions like...

-Where did the black goo come from?
-Did the Engineers create it or find it?
-What sort of rituals do they use it for?
-Why were they going to take it to Earth?
-Why did the Engineers create mankind and then decide to destroy them?
-etc

But they ignored all of those interesting questions and instead explain where the xenomorphs come from, with the stupidest explanation possible.

Spoiler:
Mad scientist David with Daddy issues
is the worst explanation for the xenomorphs they could possibly explore.

Shaw and Engineers wasted indeed. I fear my interest in this series died with this movie. Truly heart breaking.

crybaby

And another thing I find odd: Ridley Scott changed his filmmaking techniques. The CGI was not well integrated with live puppetry at all and there was even some stupid shaky cam. I'm pretty sure that was why he didn't use the CGI Fifield in Prometheus because it took you out of the movie. Well that's exactly what happened to me with AC.

I know Blomkamp's record hasn't exactly been stellar, but it saddens me to think that we missed out on his movie and got this instead.

I really hope Ridley's stranglehold on the franchise doesn't last much longer.

It would've been more interesting if they had Shaw become the creator out of some messed up twist of her faith after finding the engineers and getting her answers than have David do it. Or at least have her deliberately sacrifice herself to get some kind of revenge on them for destroying her faith.

Originally posted by -Pr-

And that's not all. They ****ed with lifecycles, they made

Spoiler:
David the ****ing creator, which for me, just ruins twenty years of established lore
. The Xeno birthing scene was AWFUL.

I didn't have a huge problem with the Xeno birthing scene, Apart from them skipping the chestburster form and going straight to the Xeno.

I still can't believe Scott did that to the previous protagonist, what the hell was he thinking?

Also **** David again.

I get the twist and all that but when did David switch with Walter or was it sometime during that time where he switched off Walter?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
I still can't believe Scott did that to the previous protagonist, what the hell was he thinking?

Yeah that was annoying.

Originally posted by Kazenji
I get the twist and all that but
Spoiler:
when did David switch with Walter or was it sometime during that time where he switched off Walter?
Spoiler:
After their fight. We don't see it, but we see Walter about to smash his face in, but he doesn't realise David has a knife in his hand. That last speech to Walter was a distraction.

Looking at people's disappointed with the movie in this thread... Don't think the movie was quite that bad.

Originally posted by jaden101
It would've been more interesting if they had Shaw become the creator out of some messed up twist of her faith after finding the engineers and getting her answers than have David do it. Or at least have her deliberately sacrifice herself to get some kind of revenge on them for destroying her faith.

Yeah, that was the kind of stuff going through my imagination for the past 5 years. Although I think they should have stuck with the Engineers creating the xenomorph (which I'm pretty sure was the original plan) through some ritualistic, ceremonial religious practice. At least then it would have some mystery surrounding it. An android in a cave is fucking stupid. Fuck Ridley Scott for not having the balls to carry on with his original vision. And all the complaints about Prometheus where the scientists take off their helmets and expose themselves to pathogens actually does apply here in Alien Covenant. In Prometheus they were under the impression that they were invited there. In Alien Covenenat they stop at an uncharted planet and just get off without a care in the world, no one even mentions that they should wear helmets and masks and suits. THAT is fucking stupid.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I know Blomkamp's record hasn't exactly been stellar, but it saddens me to think that we missed out on his movie and got this instead.

I really hope Ridley's stranglehold on the franchise doesn't last much longer.


Blomkamp's film would probably just be another exercises in stupid fan service, though. And it would retcon Alien 3 and 4, which I don't think they should do.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Looking at people's disappointed with the movie in this thread... Don't think the movie was quite that bad.

The film itself isn't that bad (at least the first half or so), but what it did to the Alien lore and all the potential intrigue in Prometheus is catastrophic. That's why it's bad. And the last act of the film is horrible. "Let's blow it out of the airlock." Jee, where have I heard that before? The Alien was the most anticlimactic ending possible and the CGI looked horrible. And David controlling the neomorph? Fucking hell that was stupid. And the most predictable shower scene, what the fuck, the writers for this need to be crucified... Why didn't they bring back Jon Spaihts? He at least had some inventive scenes and kept the mystery intact.

If someone had told me 4 years ago that Ridley Scott would manage to destroy Prometheus and the Alien films in one fell swoop I never would have believed you. But that's exactly what happened here. The Alien franchise is now dead to me. It was probably a combination of stupid fans bitching about Prometheus, the studio wanting nostalgia, horrible writers, and senile Ridley Scott that brought this into being. What a perfect storm of fail. The flawed Alien franchise finally had the last nail pounded into the coffin...

Alien Franchise
R.I.P.
1979 - 2017

Different strokes for different folks...

YouTube video

YouTube video

YouTube video

Watching Angry Joe's spoiler review

David didn't create the Xenomorph's.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Watching Angry Joe's spoiler review

David didn't create the Xenomorph's.

Yes, he did. Even had failed attempts and says it's the "perfect organism" or some shit like the mad scientist trope.

Well he's not exactly the original creator of them, He's basically tinkering with the DNA to improve on the formula.