Alien: Covenant

Started by Patient_Leech64 pages
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Man, I really hope for your sake Leech that Alien 5 manages to redeem enough things for ya. It's just always hard seeing someone this passionate and ballsdeep about a series be that let down by something in it. This turn of events hurts me too of course since it incidentally took a blow to my namesake kinda, but even the best directors can have their misses or drop the ball somewhere. :/

Do you mean the Blomkamp film? That's not happening. Fox is pursuing Ridley Scott's story line exclusively it would seem. Yay! 😠 But I don't really want to see Blomkamps fan-fiction bullcrap either. What I wanted was for Ridley Scott to have some balls and continue with Prometheus, but he pussed out.

Well here you go, this little write up sums up the changes that this Prometheus sequel went through. The original quotes that Ridley Scott used I found fascinating. And he completely threw them out, ignored and failed to even bring up all the interesting questions in Prometheus...

‘Alien: Covenant’: The Original Idea for the ‘Prometheus’ Sequel Was Very Different

Note: Spoilers for both Alien: Covenant and Prometheus abound below.

Alien: Covenant is now finally in theaters, to a somewhat divisive response, but the film that Ridley Scott ended up making wasn’t always the one he intended as the follow-up film to Prometheus. Indeed, that (also divisive) 2012 movie was the Blade Runner filmmaker’s highly anticipated return to the sci-fi genre, and he did so under the guise of a prequel to the film that first put him on the map: Alien. Passengers scribe Jon Spaihts originated the Prometheus script as a film that brought back the facehuggers and the iconic xenomorph, but when Damon Lindelof was asked to weigh in, he shaped the script into more of a separate sci-fi film than a direct prequel to Alien. Instead of focusing on that iconic monster, the film introduced precursors to the xenomorph while focusing more squarely on the Engineers, the beings that created humans in the first place.

The end of Prometheus revealed that the Engineers had been using the planet that the Prometheus crash-landed on as a containment/creation zone for a biological weapon. They were headed to wipe out humanity when the organism they created turned on them, leaving behind the deadly tomb that the Prometheus crew finds. At the movie’s conclusion, Noomi Rapace’s Dr. Elizabeth Shaw and Michael Fassbender’s badly injured android David are the only two survivors, and instead of charting a course back to Earth, Shaw argues they should instead try to find where the Engineers came from to better understand why they wanted to snuff out their creation of humanity.

Shortly after Prometheus’ release, both Scott and Lindelof were fairly open about their plans for a Prometheus sequel, with Lindelof revealing that the two had already plotted out the answers to questions posed in that film:

“Ridley was very interested in talking about, ‘What are the answers to the questions that Prometheus is posing that are not necessarily definitively spelled out in the body of Prometheus?’ I said to him, we should be prepared for people to feel frustrated if we’re going to be withholding, so we have to be very careful about what we’re saving for later because it’s not a foregone conclusion that there are going to be sequels, and so if there isn’t a sequel, just be comfortable with what we gave them in this movie.”
Lindelof continued, as the initial plan was for Prometheus to spawn its own separate franchise further disconnected from Alien:

“This movie has two children: One of these children grows up to be Alien, but the other child is going to grow up, and God knows what happens to them. And that’s what the sequel to Prometheus would be.”

Scott maintained that it was pertinent to keep both Shaw and David alive at the end of Prometheus to set them off on a path for the eventual sequel:

“I know where it’s going. I know that to keep [David] alive is essential and to keep [Elizabeth] alive is essential and to go where they came from, not where I came from, is essential.”
As for what Shaw and David would find upon meeting the Engineers, Scott had already worked out that they would be portrayed as pretty evil beings:

“Because [the Engineers] are such aggressive [b]fuckers … and who wouldn’t describe them that way, considering their brilliance in making dreadful devices and weapons that would make our chemical warfare look ridiculous? So I always had it in there that the God-like creature that you will see actually is not so nice, and is certainly not God. As she says, ‘This is not what I thought it was going to be, and I think we should get the Hell out of here or there won’t be any place to go back to.’

That’s not necessarily planted in the ground at the tail end of the third act, but I knew that’s kind of where we should go, because if we’ve opened up this door — which I hope we have because I certainly would like to do another one – I’d love to explore where the hell [Dr. Shaw] goes next and what does she do when she gets there, because if it is paradise, paradise can not be what you think it is. Paradise has a connotation of being extremely sinister and ominous.”

If you’ve seen Alien: Covenant it’s at this point that you’re probably thinking, “Uh, what?” Indeed, the film that became the Prometheus sequel doesn’t bear a ton of resemblance to the one that Scott and Lindelof were describing back in 2012, but that’s par for the course in Hollywood. Scripts get developed, evolve, and change, and clearly Scott opted to go a different direction with it.

Lindelof decided not to return to script the Prometheus sequel, which is credited to John Logan and Dante Harper with a “story by” credit going to Michael Green and Jack Paglen. Obviously the biggest change here is the jettisoning of the Shaw character. While Rapace did return and shoot scenes for Covenant, they ultimately landed on the cutting room floor and were released online as something of a prologue filling in the gap between what happened in Prometheus and where we find David in Covenant.

We see that Shaw painstakingly put David back together and then was put into hypersleep while David piloted the Engineer ship towards their home planet. That sequence ends with footage we do see in Alien: Covenant: David releasing the biological weapon on a legion of Engineers greeting the arrival of the presumed-lost ship.

As we learn in Covenant, David developed an antagonistic relationship toward his own creator, Peter Weyland (Guy Pearce) pretty much from the first minute he was “turned on.” But David played the waiting game, biding his time until he could exact revenge on his creator and his entire race—and the progenitor of that species itself. Basically, David hates humanity so much, and finds it so inferior, that he develops a species of his own—a predatory killing machine that rips anything resembling a human to shreds.

So what happened to the story thread of following Shaw and David as they confront the Engineers? Well Alien: Covenant basically puts the whole Engineer story to bed as David wipes out the entire species before the Covenant ship even lands (though it’s possible some colonies elsewhere still exist). In the context of the franchise, it appears we’ll never find out exactly why the Engineers targeted humanity for destruction—but Scott himself revealed the answer to that question back in 2012.

Essentially, in this initial story idea, we would discover that Jesus Christ was an Engineer emissary sent down to Earth to put a stop to brutal warfare. He was crucified, the Engineers got mad, and humanity’s fate was sealed:

“We definitely did [have that in the script], and then we thought it was a little too on the nose. But if you look at it as an ‘our children are misbehaving down there’ scenario, there are moments where it looks like we’ve gone out of control, running around with armor and skirts, which of course would be the Roman Empire. And they were given a long run. A thousand years before their disintegration actually started to happen. And you can say, ‘Lets send down one more of our emissaries to see if he can stop it.’ Guess what? They crucified him.’”

I suppose it’s possible this story thread could still be explored in whatever the sequel to Alien: Covenant turns out to be—Scott says he has one or two films left before we hit the timeline of the original Alien—but the end of Covenant seems far more concerned with David. Moreover, we’ve now answered that one big glaring question that an Alien prequel posed: Who created the xenomorphs? It was your friendly neighborhood android David, who’s now in control of 2,000+ colonists aboard the Covenant as Daniels (Katherine Waterston) and Tennessee (Danny McBride) are in hypersleep.

Where things go from here is anyone’s guess, and even if Scott did come out and say exactly what the Covenant sequel will entail, there’s no guarantee that story will stick as evidenced by his comments about Prometheus 2 back in 2012. Scott says the script for the Covenant sequel is already written, and it’ll be interesting to see if Daniels and/or Tennessee return, or if Scott once again unceremoniously kills off the protagonists of the prior film.

Whatever the case, it seems that Scott is now far more interested in telling David’s story than further exploring the Engineers.[/b]

http://collider.com/alien-covenant-original-story-prometheus-2/#david

So we were originally meant to see the Engineers and Shaw again and some God-like creature. We didn't. Ridley Scott didn't follow through. He has no balls. Fuck him and fuck these movies now.

Already saw a news story claiming this was the 3rd Bomb of the Summer Blockbusters.

^ Yep, this needed to do well in the first week, with Pirates out next weekend, and Wonder Woman the weekend after. But it's not. So who knows about the planned sequels.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech

So we were originally meant to see the Engineers and Shaw again and some God-like creature. We didn't. Ridley Scott didn't follow through. He has no balls. [b]Fuck him and fuck these movies now. [/B]

It was probably the studio.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It was probably the studio.

Yeah, I'm sure he was pressured, but fuck that. I'm not giving him a pass. He has major Hollywood clout. He could threaten to leave the project, or whatever. I thought he was exploring ideas and concepts that were genuinely interesting to him with Prometheus. Maybe he wasn't. Maybe the studio offered him a ton more money to change his mind on the xenos needing to come back.. who knows. In either case he's fucking nuts now..

Ultimately I think the decision he made to lessen the mystery and intrigue of the series was absolutely the wrong decision because it will decrease the lifespan of the series. Whether it had xenos or not. Sure, you can throw them in there eventually. But you shouldn't do it at the expense of destroying cherished mythology.

Point being: It's obvious they didn't think very long and hard about what they were doing with Alien: Covenant. They rushed it. Ironically after 5 years they rushed it. I thought that was ample time to get it right. Apparently not.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Yep, this needed to do well in the first week, with Pirates out next weekend, and Wonder Woman the weekend after. But it's not. So who knows about the planned sequels.

It was probably the studio.

Dang, it's about to get crushed at the box office.

Haven't seen Alien: Covenant, but I'll say this: Ridley Scott hits great when he hits, but the few times he misses, he misses well off the mark. I thought Prometheus was a great sci-fi movie; had plenty of clichéd movie moments, but it had me hook, line, and sinker for the whole runtime and was an absolute beauty of a film. It greatly disappoints me that Scott pretty much remade Alien instead of going forward with Prometheus' sequel storyline.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
^ Yeah, I really had no idea it would get [b]fucked up so royally. Just didn't see it coming. Maybe I would have if I had watched any of the trailers. [/B]

Wow, Leech, I sympathise with ya. You were so enthusiastic about this film. You didn't like my initial cynicism about the trailer and that everything looked like something I'd seen before. Truly guy, I wish that movie had been everything you had hoped for. And me too in secret, mesa like Ridley Scott in general.

Good news is: there always the 1979 Alien and the sequel Aliens. Maybe you should go and watch those.

I learned my lesson about getting to Overly Enthusiastic about a movie Before I see it back in 1998 with the Devlin Godzilla movie.

I would never do that to myself AGAIN!

Just got back from the theaters after seeing this with my girlfriend, and we both loved that it was a return to form to Alien. For me I can see the issues Scott faced when having to bridge the continuity of Alien and Prometheus, and quite predictably fanboys are butthurt and will rail the film like they did to its predecessor. As someone who loved both films and would be fine with any creative direction (so long as it wasn't the awful AVP shit), there was a lot to love here for me.

For one I thought Fassbender as Walter and David gave an amazing performance. Namely the dialogue scene with himself, the creation dialogue, and his physical performance as Walter were all par excellence with his what I've seen from him in the past. I loved the opening scene, his motivations, and felt like the whole

Spoiler:
Frankenstein creation aspect of the Xenomorph spores was well done
. Visually the scenes on the Engineer homeworld reminded me of the Colosseum moments from Gladiator which are burned into my brain, and the Neomorph and Protomorph all looked amazing to me, and it was interesting seeing the ancestor to the Xenomorph without the Giger-esque biomechanical features. Even then Giger's presence was felt on the homeworld with the biological displays in
Spoiler:
David's hideout
. I would've been pleased even if Scott had gone with furthering the mythos of the Engineers, so even with the decision to return to the roots of the Alien franchise- I was ok with what happened. All of this bitching seems contradictory to me in some way, I mean people were complaining about the Prometheus mythos/the Engineer backstory and then said that the Xenomorphs are just beats and on their own as a story wholly uninteresting- but then almost contradicting themselves ***** when he reneges and
Spoiler:
shows David killing the Engineers entirely
. Overall the themes of creation worked well for me, and Fassbender's performance carries the allegory of them just as well as a potential plot involving the two "meeting their makers" so to speak as was the original plan from Prometheus. If anything the fans are to blame for the change, considering that Scott was damned either way due to the fact one camp hated the Prometheus material and the others were like WE DON'T WANT A REHASH OF Alien. So he did the best with what he was given, and throughout the film David's contempt for humanity and the Frankenstein-esque plot really did it for me. While there are still some unanswered questions regarding Prometheus
Spoiler:
(Why did the Engineers have a weapon that would utterly destroy them, and why are there multiple incarnations of the Xenomorph/their incubation rate so different per the spores and normal facehuggers?)
. For what it's worth I liked the film and am eager to see when David and his children Origae-6,
Spoiler:
if the two Protomorph embryos eventually become the Adam/Eve of the Xenomorph species

9/10

Alien: Convenant - Movie Facts

Can't wait to see it :-)

Originally posted by queeq
Wow, Leech, I sympathise with ya. You were so enthusiastic about this film. You didn't like my initial cynicism about the trailer and that everything looked like something I'd seen before. Truly guy, I wish that movie had been everything you had hoped for. And me too in secret, mesa like Ridley Scott in general.

Yeah, thanks. The truly odd thing is that it doesn't even work well as a rehash nostalgia flick. Those parts were absolutely the worst parts and it's supposed to be the climax. Horrible CGI alien and no build up or tension at all. So it can't even be enjoyed on that level. It's total crap. The spores infecting people were a lot more scary actually. There's one cool shot of the xenomorph and chances are you've already seen it...

Ridley's first instinct was the correct: the xenomorph is cooked. Prometheus was the right direction to go. It's a shame bitchy fanboys ruined it.

If fans picked Prometheus apart they should have a field day with this:

Spoiler:
how the fuck would the Engineers let an aircraft just mosey on in and drop the goo all over them? And they all just collected down there to take it.
Why didn't the crew wear ANY sort of protective equipment when exploying an uncharted planet?
Spoiler:
How does David create xenomorphs in a cave without proper equipment in a proper facility with DNA splicing, etc?

They seriously didn't even try this time. The worst writing in sci-fi ever.

I thought this movie was shit. Scott doesn't seem like he really has it anymore, looks like this movie isn't doing too good financially either. Hopefully those two things lead to Blomkamp's Alien project being revived.

The Xenomorph looks wrong too, imo. The head is all ****ed up.

The cgi was pretty bad in general IMO.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Why didn't the crew wear ANY sort of protective equipment when exploying an uncharted planet?

Even if they didn't want to wear any protective equipment, Someone could'eve at least said "watch were you are walking and don't touch anything".

Did no one hear Mother give the atmospheric reading????

Originally posted by carthage
Just got back from the theaters after seeing this with my girlfriend, and we both loved that it was a return to form to Alien. For me I can see the issues Scott faced when having to bridge the continuity of Alien and Prometheus, and quite predictably fanboys are butthurt and will rail the film like they did to its predecessor. As someone who loved both films and would be fine with any creative direction (so long as it wasn't the awful AVP shit), there was a lot to love here for me.

For one I thought Fassbender as Walter and David gave an amazing performance. Namely the dialogue scene with himself, the creation dialogue, and his physical performance as Walter were all par excellence with his what I've seen from him in the past. I loved the opening scene, his motivations, and felt like the whole

Spoiler:
Frankenstein creation aspect of the Xenomorph spores was well done
. Visually the scenes on the Engineer homeworld reminded me of the Colosseum moments from Gladiator which are burned into my brain, and the Neomorph and Protomorph all looked amazing to me, and it was interesting seeing the ancestor to the Xenomorph without the Giger-esque biomechanical features. Even then Giger's presence was felt on the homeworld with the biological displays in
Spoiler:
David's hideout
. I would've been pleased even if Scott had gone with furthering the mythos of the Engineers, so even with the decision to return to the roots of the Alien franchise- I was ok with what happened. All of this bitching seems contradictory to me in some way, I mean people were complaining about the Prometheus mythos/the Engineer backstory and then said that the Xenomorphs are just beats and on their own as a story wholly uninteresting- but then almost contradicting themselves ***** when he reneges and
Spoiler:
shows David killing the Engineers entirely
. Overall the themes of creation worked well for me, and Fassbender's performance carries the allegory of them just as well as a potential plot involving the two "meeting their makers" so to speak as was the original plan from Prometheus. If anything the fans are to blame for the change, considering that Scott was damned either way due to the fact one camp hated the Prometheus material and the others were like WE DON'T WANT A REHASH OF Alien. So he did the best with what he was given, and throughout the film David's contempt for humanity and the Frankenstein-esque plot really did it for me. While there are still some unanswered questions regarding Prometheus
Spoiler:
(Why did the Engineers have a weapon that would utterly destroy them, and why are there multiple incarnations of the Xenomorph/their incubation rate so different per the spores and normal facehuggers?)
. For what it's worth I liked the film and am eager to see when David and his children Origae-6,
Spoiler:
if the two Protomorph embryos eventually become the Adam/Eve of the Xenomorph species

9/10

Tl;dr Scott can do no wrong

K

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Yeah, I'm sure he was pressured, but [b]fuck that. I'm not giving him a pass. He has major Hollywood clout. He could threaten to leave the project, or whatever. I thought he was exploring ideas and concepts that were genuinely interesting to him with Prometheus. Maybe he wasn't. Maybe the studio offered him a ton more money to change his mind on the xenos needing to come back.. who knows. In either case he's fucking nuts now..

[/B]

I honestly don't mean to sound cocky but I did kinda warn ya that maybe Ridley no longer had the clout that he used to have...
Even if he threatened to leave the project, there wold always be another director (Neil Blomk) to reboot/remake the franchise.

It's simply obvious Hollywood wants a franchise out of Alien & not to bow down to a director's whimsy of telling a (Engineer) story.

I finally saw the film today.
All I can say is that the beauty of the visuals certainly outweigh the stupidity of the characters portrayed.

[/spoiler] I get that Covenant was a transport ship traveling to colonise another planet. It's just a ridiculous scenario when even the crew are partnered together. Mistakes were made from the very start when crew members placed their partners & relationships first over following orders or protocol.

It just seems that every Alien movie is filled with people who either make blatant stupid mistakes or turn out to be unprofessional for the roles they play.

The chestburster prototypes looked ridiculous fully formed with arms & legs. They looked & acted like spoilt bratty Alien children. [/spoiler]

Well I thought I had a lot more to say about this movie but unfortunately there was really nothing outstanding.

Sorry I don't know why the spoiler tags didn't work.