Originally posted by Intrepid37
Doesn't say much. ''in a way'' because the dark side is more powerful than the light side. Didn't help him in the Senate Chamber.And is Nick Gillard a canon source?
Originally posted by Intrepid37
While this is true, the script has more saying than Gillard.
Regardless, what we see in the film is that they fought evenly both on ground and on platform. Luck and circumstances decides the winner.
But I would still give higher probability to Sidious because he has larger Force reserves. And on top of that Yoda wastes his Force reserves faster because he needs to compensate his lack of strength and generate those insane acrobatics. Sidious on even ground would simply outlast Yoda.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Yoda disarmed Sids... Sids is NOT nor was he ever his superior
Originally posted by Arhael
The script describes what happened in particular fight under certain circumstances. In there Yoda and Sidious fight on uneven platform, where Yoda at one point gains temporary advantage and as result Sidious nearly falls out of platform and drops lightsaber. Would it happen under other circumstances? Unlikely.Regardless, what we see in the film is that they fought evenly both on ground and on platform. Luck and circumstances decides the winner.
Originally posted by Arhael
But I would still give higher probability to Sidious because he has larger Force reserves. And on top of that Yoda wastes his Force reserves faster because he needs to compensate his lack of strength and generate those insane acrobatics. Sidious on even ground would simply outlast Yoda.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
I don't see what circumstances were in Yoda's favor. And I'm not saying Yoda's winning every time, simply a majority.
Even if we ignore it, how about the fact that Sidious started falling down from platform? Have there been space, he would simply step back and Yoda's effort would be wasted.
I doubt it. It only took an enraged Maul for Sidious to tap into his reserves.
Regardless, we have two most powerful characters. But only one with no physical limitations to overcome.
Originally posted by Arhael
Yoda, when on the platform, keeps jumping all over the place like always does. Sidious on opposite statically stays in the middle, when normally he uses footwork and acrobatics a lot as well. Diminutive size of Yoda clearly gave him advantage on that platform.
Originally posted by Arhael
Even if we ignore it, how about the fact that Sidious started falling down from platform? Have there been space, he would simply step back and Yoda's effort would be wasted.
Originally posted by Arhael
Didn't get the Maul part. And why you doubt it? Sidious kept tearing of the wall and throwing platforms, which shows how large his reserves were. Yoda on opposite was dodging platforms conserving energy. And still after final contest Yoda got completely exhausted to the point that he couldn't even slow down his fall and safely land.Regardless, we have two most powerful characters. But only one with no physical limitations to overcome.
Arhael.. The simple facts are these... Yoda LOOKED SUPERIOR to Sids in virtually every way. He disarmed him of his saber.. i.e. got the better of the saber battle. Then, EVEN WHEN Sids had the higher ground (we know that counts for a lot in Duels) Yoda still overcame that and took it to Sids. Then, Sids bread and butter move was being sent back at him and he was goin to lose it... Yoda was seen buckeling down and overcoming Sids lighting and making sids facial expression like he was going to lose. All this doesn't point to Sids being his superior or winning a majority. It points to the EXACT OPPOSITE THING. Yoda is Sids superior.. not by a lot.. nor does it mean he wins all the fights.. but he should be favored and rightfully so. No way getting around that.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
At the same time, Yoda had little space to work on so his attacks would've been predictable. And he seemed to overpower Sidious in the saberlocks.
Saber locks? How is it relevant at all? First, Yoda caught tip of Sidious' lightsaber close to the hilt of his lightsaber. So, while Yoda is nowhere as strong as Sidious or any other character, normally he has the leverage in saver locks.
Second, we don't know if it was Yoda overpowering in saber lock or Sidious simply stopped the attempt and attacked again. To me it looks like Sidious pulled away his lightsaber after unsuccessful attempt to overpower.
What do you mean?
I doubt he's gonna win because of stamina.
While it seems impossible to defeat Yoda because he is way too agile, at the same time he lacks offensive capabilities of other characters.
For example, Windu disarmed Sidious by kicking him in the face. Anakin in TCW put Dooku on his ass with a kick. Yoda can't kick.
Anakin defeated Dooku with grappling technique and nearly killed Kenobi. Yoda can't grapple.
Dooku defeated Kenobi by winning saber lock, Sidious defeated Maul by winning in saber lock. Yoda can't defeat anyone by winning in saber lock.
You can't be ignorant of so many limitations.
In every fight Yoda tries either to outspeed or outlast his opponent.
In first fight with Dooku Yoda tried to overwhelm with speed. Didn't work but Dooku was the first one to get tired and ran away.
On Vjun again Yoda couldn't do a thing to Dooku but he outlasted him, again Dooku got tired and ran away.
Yoda lacks offensive capabilities and on top of that he needs to use more Force than other characters to compensate for his tremendous lack of strength and to keep jumping around. I find it hard to believe that Yoda has any chance winning Sidious on even ground at all.
Originally posted by Arhael
Yoda had more space to work with than Sidious because of his diminutive size, period. And Yoda's superior agility obviously gives him advantage over his opponents on uneven ground with limited space.
There came a turning point in the clash of the light against the dark.
It did not come from a flash of lightning or slash of energy blade, though there were these in plenty; it did not come from a flying kick or a surgically precise punch, though these were traded, too.
-Revenge of the Sith
Originally posted by Arhael
Saber locks? How is it relevant at all? First, Yoda caught tip of Sidious' lightsaber close to the hilt of his lightsaber. So, while Yoda is nowhere as strong as Sidious or any other character, normally he has the leverage in saver locks.
Originally posted by Arhael
Second, we don't know if it was Yoda overpowering in saber lock or Sidious simply stopped the attempt and attacked again. To me it looks like Sidious pulled away his lightsaber after unsuccessful attempt to overpower.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUlqDMcS_RE
2:35 and 2:40.
Originally posted by Arhael
I mean Sidious would not drop his lightsaber on even ground as Anakin wouldn't lose his limbs to Kenobi on even ground.
Sidious dropped lightsaber because he started falling from platform, wouldn't happen on even ground.
YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA.
If Sidious was able to unleash a ''ferocious assault'' on Yoda, he would've dropped his lightsaber. But he wasn't able to.
Originally posted by Arhael
While it seems impossible to defeat Yoda because he is way too agile, at the same time he lacks offensive capabilities of other characters.
Mace Windu had almost smiled. "I created Vaapad to answer my weakness: it channels my own darkness into a weapon of the light. Master Yoda's Ataro is also an answer to weakness: the limitations of reach and mobility imposed by his stature and his age. But for you? What weakness does Soresu answer?"
-Revenge of the Sith
Originally posted by Arhael
For example, Windu disarmed Sidious by kicking him in the face. Anakin in TCW put Dooku on his ass with a kick. Yoda can't kick.
There came a turning point in the clash of the light against the dark.
It did not come from a flash of lightning or slash of energy blade, though there were these in plenty; it did not come from a flying kick or a surgically precise punch, though these were traded, too.
Originally posted by Arhael
Anakin defeated Dooku with grappling technique and nearly killed Kenobi. Yoda can't grapple.
Originally posted by Arhael
Dooku defeated Kenobi by winning saber lock, Sidious defeated Maul by winning in saber lock. Yoda can't defeat anyone by winning in saber lock.
Originally posted by Arhael
In every fight Yoda tries either to outspeed or outlast his opponent. In first fight with Dooku Yoda tried to overwhelm with speed. Didn't work but Dooku was the first one to get tired and ran away.
Only then can we understand the extraordinary combat moves of Yoda, perhaps the greatest lightsaber master the Jedi Order has ever seen.
-Fightsaber: Jedi lightsaber combat[I]
Unless you're suggesting Yoda is ''perhaps the greatest lightsaber master the Jedi Order has ever seen'' because his speed, then no.
[i]Originally posted by Arhael
On Vjun again Yoda couldn't do a thing to Dooku but he outlasted him, again Dooku got tired and ran away.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
KT if Yoda is so superior in "every way" then why did he fail to destroy the Emperor?
Yoda looked superior in the HIGHEST form of canon THUS HE IS SUPERIOR. What is so hard to understand about this. He WAS superior in swordplay.. and looked superior in the force. There are no two ways about this DP. Please never again try and equate not killing somebody with thus not being superior. It's like a MMA fight... gsp kicked the shit out of condit all fight long... condit didn't win a round.. but GSP didn't finish him or KO him.. doesn't that mean he's not superior? No he kicked the shit out of him... Same thign here.. yoda looked superior and IS superior regardless if he was able to kill him.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Yoda looked superior in the HIGHEST form of canon THUS HE IS SUPERIOR. What is so hard to understand about this. He WAS superior in swordplay.. and looked superior in the force. There are no two ways about this DP. Please never again try and equate not killing somebody with thus not being superior. It's like a MMA fight... gsp kicked the shit out of condit all fight long... condit didn't win a round.. but GSP didn't finish him or KO him.. doesn't that mean he's not superior? No he kicked the shit out of him... Same thign here.. yoda looked superior and IS superior regardless if he was able to kill him.
Regardless, I agree with the main premise.
If anything Yoda >= Sidious (by a slight margin, that is)
Yoda and Sidious are over and over again portrayed as equals. In RotS movie it seemed as if Yoda in the very end was near to overcome Sidious in the Force battle. The script supplements the info that Yoda disarmed Sidious in sabers.
So I’d say Yoda has a very slim edge over Sidiosu in an all-out, possibly 5.5/10. 😎