Originally posted by The Sorrow
The fact that his rage is what amps his strength maybe? In the Thor fight Carver posted Hulk had barely been fighting Thor and was already worrying about turning back into Banner. It was a silly way of basically shoehorning the savage persona back into continuity but I don't see how you can argue against what was at that point, an integral plot point of PADs run.
It was there from the start, just hidden.
Originally posted by abhilegend
His rage wasn't subdued at any point, he could still get angry and amp his strength. They were fighting for an hour when that happened IIRC. Carver posted bannerless hulk fighting thor. FYI, savage banner failsafe was in place from start of merged hulk's emergence. He just realized it when he got too angry seeing Betty getting shot and turned into banner.It was there from the start, just hidden.
😂 you just contradicted your own point in your own scan. It clearly says "the madder he gets the weaker he gets", this happened throughout the latter part of the Merged Hulk's appearances. When he fought Superman the limitation was still in place and there's no getting around that.
Hulk/Banner started to lose control long before Betty got shot, that was what finally pushed him over the edge. Banner has always been able to affect his multiple personalities mentally or spiritually this isn't something new, Leonard's words in that scan don't tell us much we didn't already know. When merged Hulk first appeared rage-amping wasn't a problem, after the Betty incident, it was. Your theory is pure speculation. We saw what happened once merged Hulk was finally allowed to release his anger after Jean removed the Banner failsafe, he wrecked Onslaughts armour solo.
Originally posted by The Sorrow
Hulk wasn't Bannerless until after the Onslaught saga bro.😂 you just contradicted your own point in your own scan. It clearly says "the madder he gets the weaker he gets", this happened throughout the latter part of the Merged Hulk's appearances. When he fought Superman the limitation was still in place and there's no getting around that.
Hulk/Banner started to lose control long before Betty got shot, that was what finally pushed him over the edge. Banner has always been able to affect his multiple personalities mentally or spiritually this isn't something new, Leonard's words in that scan don't tell us much we didn't already know. When merged Hulk first appeared rage-amping wasn't a problem, after the Betty incident, it was. Your theory is pure speculation. We saw what happened once merged Hulk was finally allowed to release his anger after Jean removed the Banner failsafe, he wrecked Onslaughts armour solo.
That was said in the context of him turning into banner not that hulk was getting weaker as he got madder. That's just absurd. He never got anywhere near that level. "Savage banner" was not about hulk not being able to amp, that's just a flat out lie.
He was always able to amp his strength before or after that incident. Savage banner failsafe only made sure that if he got too angry he would turn back into banner. You are not speculating, you are just flat out wrong here. Jean didn't remove the banner failsafe, she turned off his rational mind. Even before that he was at his angriest as Samson put it "He has never been angrier" against Thor in hulk 440 and he didn't turn into banner while still amping to the point that at the end he was manhandling Thor with one hand.
Originally posted by abhilegend
I know that. I was talking about Thor 489.That was said in the context of him turning into banner not that hulk was getting weaker as he got madder. That's just absurd. He never got anywhere near that level. "Savage banner" was not about hulk not being able to amp, that's just a flat out lie.
He was always able to amp his strength before or after that incident. Savage banner failsafe only made sure that if he got too angry he would turn back into banner. You are not speculating, you are just flat out wrong here. Jean didn't remove the banner failsafe, she turned off his rational mind. Even before that he was at his angriest as Samson put it "He has never been angrier" against Thor in hulk 440 and he didn't turn into banner while still amping to the point that at the end he was manhandling Thor with one hand.
The Banner fail safe wasn't in affect during his fight with Thor. IIRC the brain shrapnel. It's why they were able to cut loose with all they had like that.
😐
Seriously:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Onslaughtspower1b.jpg
"You have to enter my brain telepathically and turn Banner off. Shut him down."
"Your Human side? I can't"
"My control side"
Although the Savage Banner limitation had been removed by then due to brain damage I think, unless it was temporary. It's been a while, I'd have to double check.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah and whenever that happened, hulk was too angry at that point. Not like in his fight with superman.
Like I said, Hulk instinctively tried not to get angry and controlled himself at a point:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk33.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk34.jpg
He would literally hold himself back even more than he usually did with his anger.
Don't you get it? He treated almost everyone, even Superman apparently, with kid gloves because he didn't want to start amping. Without the limitation he wouldn't have any reason to restrain himself so.
Originally posted by abhilegend
No such problems were given when he fought superman who knocked him out before he could get too angry to reach the failsafe.
Still not getting it. Hulk didn't even have to get very angry for it to kick in, he had to just start losing control.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Hulk was clearly unhurt by that attack. Do you have so little faith in merged hulk's HF under PAD? Dude was healing holes in his chest in moments and he even states he was able to withstand a lot more. Flying into hulk? Now you're just nitpicking.
It hurt him, argh wasn't a sound of pleasure.
Yes, Hulk's healing factor was nearly unmatched, particularly when he was angry.
Originally posted by abhilegend
He wasn't handicapped in the fight because before he reached the point of his handicap to take any effect, he was knocked out.I feel sorry for you then. SUPER-strength, think about it.
You're not even making any sense anymore.
Irrelevant point.
Originally posted by abhilegend
HV was shrugged off and the flight was in response to hulk's ground pound effect. It was a slugfest and superman knocked hulk out before he got too angry. Heck, they even stood and traded punches for the most part. Why's that so difficult to grasp?
Agree to disagree if you want but it simply was not a slugfest. And in a fight so close, I have no idea why you think a blast of heat vision and Superman's ability to retaliate with flight is so insignificant.
Originally posted by -Pr-
"base level" Hulk is a misnomer. He starts off as a full high herald.
For what I have read about Hulk He does not starts that high on his strength level and most of the time when He performs ok vs a team, is because the team is holding back.
He is usually portrayed as starting around thing level and then he builds up from there.
On his fight vs Gladiator when He was Banerless Hulk IIRC , He won WITH A HUGE plot going on since the beginning of the comic.
When He fought against the team of avengers, the avengers team was holding back. Hulk was getting weaker, BUT he was MUCH, MUCH stronger than a base level Hulk.
Professor Hulk started off also stronger than Savage Hulk with the difference that He actually had the advantage of being intelligent. He could not tap into the "limitless strength" due to the failsafe, but He started stronger than Savage Hulk.
He has some good showings as Savage Hulk, but that is at a high stress level
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
For what I have read about Hulk He does not starts that high on his strength level and most of the time when He performs ok vs a team, is because the team is holding back.He is usually portrayed as starting around thing level and then he builds up from there.
On his fight vs Gladiator when He was Banerless Hulk IIRC , He won WITH A HUGE plot going on since the beginning of the comic.
When He fought against the team of avengers, the avengers team was holding back. Hulk was getting weaker, BUT he was MUCH, MUCH stronger than a base level Hulk.
Professor Hulk started off also stronger than Savage Hulk with the difference that He actually had the advantage of being intelligent. He could not tap into the "limitless strength" due to the failsafe, but He started stronger than Savage Hulk.
He has some good showings as Savage Hulk, but that is at a high stress level
You don't read many Hulk comics, do you?
Yes, get those numerous beatings vs the army, snakes, gas, facing the thing and then you will see it.
He starts off strong but ben grim strong, then he works his way up to high stress.
You want me to list you all the issues where he has done that, or you only need one?
Professor starts way above savage, savage can get higher, but he needs to build up.
Unless you think savage is herald,professor is trans and wbh skyfather......
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Yes, get those numerous beatings vs the army, snakes, gas, facing the thing and then you will see it.He starts off strong but ben grim strong, then he works his way up to high stress.
You want me to list you all the issues where he has done that, or you only need one?
Professor starts way above savage, savage can get higher, but he needs to build up.
Unless you think savage is herald,professor is trans and wbh skyfather......
Him being beaten (lol, low showings and when has CURRENT Hulk been beaten by any of those things) have to do with his durability, not his strength. A weakened Hulk that getting drained of his power defeated both Thing and Wolverine.
Originally posted by carver9
Him being beaten (lol, low showings and when has CURRENT Hulk been beaten by any of those things) have to do with his durability, not his strength. A weakened Hulk that getting drained of his power defeated both Thing and Wolverine.
I am not talking about low showings, but the NORM.
He gets worked up to stalemate someone in some cases or he is loosing in other cases , then He comes with that famous line "Hulk is the strongest one there is" He becomes stronger and wins the day.
Does that sounds like the HULK to you?
Oh and I just saw, you said "CURRENT" but didn't he got worked up by some bugs recently?, Though I do not know if that was the savage version tbh. But how many showings does Savage has recently?
And I just noticed that you changed your stand from a single showing to a RECENT showing
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The Banner fail safe wasn't in affect during his fight with Thor. IIRC the brain shrapnel. It's why they were able to cut loose with all they had like that.😐
Seriously:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Onslaughtspower1b.jpg"You have to enter my brain telepathically and turn Banner off. Shut him down."
"Your Human side? I can't"
"My control side"
Although the Savage Banner limitation had been removed by then due to brain damage I think, unless it was temporary. It's been a while, I'd have to double check.
You are quite a hulk expert now, it seems. Just tell me how did the original mindless hulk was born? Something like Banner's mind being dormant, right? Just think about what happened there when Jean turned off Banner's mind. That was no longer merged hulk, that was mindless hulk operating. Seriously when did merged hulk mentioned himself in third person?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusHe wasn't going all out because he would go over the critical mass which he sensed approaching before that. Thor himself notes that at one point he was like a berserker viking and then he restrains himself. Those scans do more harm to you than good. Hulk as I said was able to get angry and amp himself but at one point he was able to sense that if he gets any more angry he would change back in banner. Nothing of that sort happened against superman. He was knocked out before that happened.
Like I said, Hulk instinctively tried not to get angry and controlled himself at a point:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk33.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk34.jpgHe would literally hold himself back even more than he usually did with his anger.
Don't you get it? He treated almost everyone, even Superman apparently, with kid gloves because he didn't want to start amping. Without the limitation he wouldn't have any reason to restrain himself so.Nope, that's not what happened. He only restrained himself when he sensed he was near "critical mass".
Still not getting it. Hulk didn't even have to get very angry for it to kick in, he had to just start losing control.At near critical mass, not just any moment.
t hurt him, argh wasn't a sound of pleasure.He was angry, not that it matters. Even a calm merged hulk was healing worse in moments.Yes, Hulk's healing factor was nearly unmatched, particularly when he was angry.
You're not even making any sense anymore.
durly
Irrelevant point.
Agree to disagree if you want but it simply was not a slugfest. And in a fight so close, I have no idea why you think a blast of heat vision and Superman's ability to retaliate with flight is so insignificant.I think I would agree to disagree at this point.
