Galan007
|Quantum Observer|
Originally posted by dadudemon
ASSJ Vegeta much more absurdly powerful than Semi-Perfect Cell (SPC) that SPC could do nothing to harm Vegeta.We didn't see that much of a power difference since Goku fought some of the Ginyu Force and tooled them. Goku's base was 90k, then. Burter's was around 60k. But Goku completely tooled them. The difference was 1.5x.
On second thought, you might be right. If Vegeta was 1.5x stronger than base-form SSJ, that would be enough to tool SPC like Goku did to the Ginyu Force. That would also mean that Perfect Cell and Super Perfect Cell fell in a power range that was somewhere between 1.5x and 2x base SSJ...generally. But that would also indicate that his SPC to PC forms would have been closer to double that 1.5.x his SPC power because his power would have been somewhere between 1.5x and 1x stronger than a SSJ...but probably closer to 1x than 1.5x. However, he seemed to tool the Androids just as much as Vegeta tooled him?
But this all falls to mess when you consider that the SSJ state has different base powerlevel starting points throwing this whole thing out of wack. If the power multipliers are consistant, then the inconsistency is both the writing and the individual's own base powerlevels.
You could be correct, there. What Goku and Gohan did was vastly increase their base power-level, imo. The mode also makes their ASSJ state get all the benefits of the SSJ state but none of the drawbacks, as you stated. So the point of that state would be two-fold (no pun intended): increasing their base powerlevel while also reducing the massive drain that the SSJ state puts on the body. That would make sense.
But then that does not match up well with the ASSJ state which adds muscle so it is actually increasing by a multiplier unlike the FPSSJ state. Same holds true with the USSJ state: it further increases the powerlevel but does not alter the base power level. So, I think that would explain the FPSSJ state still be a 50x multiplier but the ASSJ and USSJ states adding their own little brand of multiplier (but a dead-end avenue for continual improvement like Vegeta figured out).
As it pertains to this discussion, it would seem we both agree that FPSSJ Goku is 50x> base-level Goku. If that
is in fact the case(and I believe it is), then we can at least come up with fairly accurate PL approximations for his various SSJ transformations. We can do this because we know 120m is our absolute high-end, where his base form is concerned.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I would tend to think that an assessment like that would be false (the V-Jump implications, not necessarily your opinion on it (which I ask for a little bit later). To me, I would interpret that to be something like "add their power levels together and multiply it by X+base multiplier for Potara Earring Fusion. X is determined by how much of a rival the two are (as stated by the old Grand Supreme Ultra Super Kai...yes, I got carried away with the honorrifics there, for a moment).
Here's the page I was referring to:
http://i.imgur.com/rzMel57.jpgIt describes Vegito's cumulative battle power as Goku's power
multiplied by Vegeta's. As erroneous as it sounds, that is the evidence I was referring to in my former post. /shrug
Originally posted by dadudemon
So we could assume it would be closer to something like this:Goku's PL: 7b
Vegeta's PL: 3.5b
Rival Multiplier: 1x
Base Mulitiplier: 3x
(6b+3.5b)(3+.5) = 38b
Which would make more sense.
Here's why.
Assuming SSJ3 Gotenks is stronger than SSJ3 Goku but not hugely more powerful:
SSJ3: 10b
Mystic Gohan: 14b
Evil Buu: 5b
Altogether: 29b
29b<38b
That seems about right.
Again, those numbers are arbitrary but I assume the ratios in powerlevels is about the same so we could adjust those power levels to anything we wanted as long as the ratios were around the same.
[b]I am interested in your speculation regarding those numbers I threw out. What are you own estimates?
[/B]
Based on what we know, SSJ3 Gotenks was substantially more powerful than SSJ3 Goku. Why? Because as made evident during their battle, SSJ3 Gotenks~Super Buu-- Gotenks may have been a little weaker, but they were pretty close. Conversely, Goku(who can very accurately sense ki) flat-out stated that Super Buu was vastly more powerful than himself. And finally, we know Mystic Gohan was far stronger than any of the aforementioned, given the casual nature in which he trounced Super Buu.
ie. Mystic Gohan>>Super Buu~/>SSJ3 Gotenks>>SSJ3 Goku.
We know Goku's max PL as a SSJ3 several years after the Buu saga couldn't have been more than 48b. So let's assume he was around 40b during the Buu saga(just throwing a random number out there.)
If SSJ3 Goku=40b, I'd have Super Buu at 43b, SSJ3 Gotenks at 42.5b, and Mystic Gohan at no less than 46b... And since Piccolo was also part of the equation, we'll put him at 500m.
When we're dealing with power levels in the tens-of-billions, it's easy to forget that even a power difference of 1 million is massive-- it's essentially the difference between an average earthling and 2nd form Frieza. 😱
Anyhow, assuming the power of the beings Buu successfully absorbed were added to his own:
Super Buu+SSJ3 Gotenks+Piccolo=Buutenks=86b
Super Buu+Mystic Gohan+Piccolo=Buuhan=89.5b(Gotenks' PL cannot be counted here, because the fusion was no longer active within Buu.)
Anyway, if SSJ3 Goku's PL was 40b, it means his SSJ2 PL would have been 10b(40b/4.) Even if SSJ2 Vegeta's PL was identical to Goku's(which it almost certainly wasn't, given that he needed the Majin amp just to contend equally with Goku), Vegito would only possess a PL of 20b if their powers were simply added together-- moreover, that figure would have to be multiplied several times over by the 'x factors' you mentioned, just to approach Buuhan's level. However, given the obvious fact that Vegito's power was several orders of magnitude beyond that of Buuhan, I'd be more inclined to lean toward the guidebook's explanation(posted above) of blanket multiplication rather than simple addition.
I'm assuming that the better suited the 'hosts' are, the more power the fusion receives-- which might mean that the 'hosts' powers are only multiplied if they are the perfect fusion partners(which Goku and Vegeta were touted as by Old Kai.) I mean, clearly every Potara fusion doesn't receive that much of an amp-- Kibitoshin is a prime example: even if Supreme Kai and Kibito only possessed individual power levels of 1m, their fusion would come out with a PL of 1 TRILLION if powers were always multiplied. /shrug
