Originally posted by leonidas
cap might underestimate her in the first match of 10, but after that his physical advantages would net him the wins. cap for a heavy majority imo. the skill advantage isn't nearly as great as the strength and durability advantage and likely cap's overall speed advantage as well.
But consider the use of pressure points combined with predicting Cap's every move and also learning his style while fighting him and you see it another way.
Originally posted by h1a8
This is comics and street levelers are always much stronger than normal human beings (including Cass). In the comic world, pressure points are shown as God. That means they always work. Cass being very skilled can apply them generously and negate the strength advantage.LOL you don't know much about wrestling or MMA do you? If a fighter is skilled enough they can easily prevent being taken down. It takes agility, reflexes, and speed and technique.
Anyone in MA knows that attempting to tackle an exceptionally skilled fighter (and one who can predict it coming a mile away) will not only fail but open them self up for attack. Plus Cap doesn't fight that way usually (especially against females). Cap will naturally hold back, underestimate her, etc. until it's too late.
She would have learned his style by then. Cass knowing up front that he's a lot stronger will easily resort to pressure point striking (and will succeed since Cap will underestimate her and open himself up more easily).Cis off and Cap can win the majority (but it still wont be easy)
What are you basing this on? They have basic knowledge of each other, not to mention Cap has females in his rogue gallery...
Cap wins this solidly without pis
Originally posted by h1a8
But consider the use of pressure points combined with predicting Cap's every move and also learning his style while fighting him and you see it another way.
i see cap as being able to defend against the pressure points--his natural speed can offset her ability to predict. he can also use them extremely effectively himself. he would only have to make solid contact once to shift this fight severely. if she missed her strike (and she is NOT infallible) he could end it far more quickly than she could. her precog is also not infallible and even knowing what's happening doesn't mean she could mount an offence or defence strong enough to withstand someone with borderline superhuman stats.
Originally posted by leonidas
i see cap as being able to defend against the pressure points--his natural speed can offset her ability to predict. he can also use them extremely effectively himself. he would only have to make solid contact once to shift this fight severely. if she missed her strike (and she is NOT infallible) he could end it far more quickly than she could. her precog is also not infallible and even knowing what's happening doesn't mean she could mount an offence or defence strong enough to withstand someone with borderline superhuman stats.
He can't defend if he's open due to being predicted. Counter attack buddy.
Prediction makes that happen.
Pressure points are God in comics. You can apply them to characters several orders of magnitude above your physicality and they will still work. Cap's durability will be bypassed instantly.
If Cap hits her then he isn't going to hit her very hard. Remember she's a young kid, a pretty female, and a hero. He's holding back indeed.
You are right, neither fighter is infallible and that is why I give Cass a small majority. Now taking Cis away I would give Cap the majority.
Originally posted by pym-ftwCap using pressure points doesn't mean he's immune to them. I'm bringing it up because her prediction power will give her an opportunity to counter him with a pressure point strike.
Cap has used pressure points in the past, so I'm not sure why your bringing this up?What are you basing this on? They have basic knowledge of each other, not to mention Cap has females in his rogue gallery...
Cap wins this solidly without pis
So you admit cap isn't holding back, and cap also uses these "God" lvl pressure points...
Cap is superhumanly fast, both in movement, reflexes, and perception. He might as well have assumed precog here, he sees the world around him as slower than average peak humans...
Not to mention even if he misses a pressure point a single strike from cap would be devastating...
Originally posted by pym-ftwCass is superhumanly fast too. She was dodging bullets matrix style with utmost ease. This is greater than anything Cap has done. So she might be faster than Steven.
So you admit cap isn't holding back, and cap also uses these "God" lvl pressure points...Cap is superhumanly fast, both in movement, reflexes, and perception. He might as well have assumed precog here, he sees the world around him as slower than average peak humans...
Not to mention even if he misses a pressure point a single strike from cap would be devastating...
No, I admit that if Cap doesn't hold back then he can win the majority. But since he's holding back here and given Cass advantages I say Cass wins the majority.
Originally posted by carver9
Does anyone have those scans of Cap outracing bullets to its target?
I debunked that feat a long time ago.
Cap never outraced a bullet.
1. The artist drew it wrong. Cap got there before Skull shot by the intentions.
or
2. Since Skull couldn't have squeeze off another shot before the bullet hit its target then Skull missed the first three shots, and Cap blocked the second three. The next panel could either be interpreted as stuff from the dresser failing or the writer miscounting the bullets.
or
3. PIS and doesn't count anyway.
1. makes the most sense though. but 2. can be a possibility.
Tbh i also saw it as artists mistake (not that Steve doesnt have bullet time feats, he does) in that particular scene he jumped from one part of the room to another than somehow teported back to where Skull was standing. The way I saw it writers intention was for him to leap in front of the bullet, not beat it to its target.
Originally posted by h1a8
I debunked that feat a long time ago.
Cap never outraced a bullet.1. The artist drew it wrong. Cap got there before Skull shot by the intentions.
or
2. Since Skull couldn't have squeeze off another shot before the bullet hit its target then Skull missed the first three shots, and Cap blocked the second three. The next panel could either be interpreted as stuff from the dresser failing or the writer miscounting the bullets.
or
3. PIS and doesn't count anyway.
1. makes the most sense though. but 2. can be a possibility.
That scene is hardly Cap's only bullet-time feat.
Originally posted by Silent Master
That scene is hardly Cap's only bullet-time feat.
Nope, but he doesn't have many, and Cass has more, and more consistent, feats.
It's also pretty common for run of the mill aim dodging feats to get miss-labeled as bullet dodging, among all street levelers.. I think Batman only has one or two legit ones himself, and I don't consider him a bullet dodger by any means..