Why God in any Majro Religion would desire Post-Humanism for Humanity

Most religions preach 'Love Thy Neighbor', which basically says do right by your fellow human. Right as in peace, as in love, as in happiness and joy. No struggle no war.

Technology, it seems can provide said totalitarian peace in ways even religion cannot. Perhaps God offers peace and eternal love through death, but what we choose to do with what we have to us in this world, can offer peace and eternal love through life.

Why only bless humans?? Why not bless all forms of life, dogs, cats, self-conscious superhuman femtoprocessors, humans that have transformed themselves into superhuman femptoproccessors?

Most religions also preach that higher forms of life are above lower forms, human to animals for example, that we should rejoice in eating said animals if it keeps us alive. However, the relationship between machines and humans is completely different, as machines don't need to eat humans to survive, machines don't need sustenance at all.

In fact, as we expand our consciousness, we will be more divine and righteous in God's eyes by the same logic in the Bible and Hinduism as humans being greater than animals.

You should merge with Eninn.

But seriously, I'm pretty sure the whole point of most major religions is that it's possible for humans to become greater and holy and (in some cases, as in Christianity and Islam) eternal through faith and/or good acts without needing to change what humanity is.

Jesus died to pay the sin debt of humanity, not post-humanity.

It's really that simple. Do you know what happened the last time there was a huge "post-human" movement? God had to wipe out pretty much the entire world (save 8 people and 2 of every animal) because of it.

Read Genesis 6 to find out what happened.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
Jesus died to pay the sin debt of humanity, not post-humanity.

It's really that simple. Do you know what happened the last time there was a huge "post-human" movement? God had to wipe out pretty much the entire world (save 8 people and 2 of every animal) because of it.

Read Genesis 6 to find out what happened.

No, he wiped humanity out for erroneously believing they could be better than God.

Post-humans are nothing but another spec to God, if that's what He is.

They were trying to breach the clouds with a simple man-made structure, that's nothing like the idea of being smarter and living more righteously, it's a stupid idea, "Heaven is up in the clouds so we'll just build a Temple tall enough to breach them".

Originally posted by Omega Vision
You should merge with Eninn.

But seriously, I'm pretty sure the whole point of most major religions is that it's possible for humans to become greater and holy and (in some cases, as in Christianity and Islam) eternal through faith and/or good acts without needing to change what humanity is.

No, he wiped humanity out for erroneously believing they could be better than God.

Post-humans are nothing but another spec to God, if that's what He is.

They were trying to breach the clouds with a simple man-made structure, that's nothing like the idea of being smarter and living more righteously, it's a stupid idea, "Heaven is up in the clouds so we'll just build a Temple tall enough to breach them".

That's the one where God wipes out humanity because he's afraid that they'll become as great/better than him, right?

You're both wrong.

Genesis 6 is when "the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair" and "took wives all that they chose". The unholy union between angel and man spawned the nephilim, which was/is only part human, but vastly superior to humans in all physical and mental capacities (strength, intelligence, etc.). They were referred to in the Bible as "the mighty men of old, the men of renown." They are also called giants.

The Tower of Babel happened after the flood, led by Nimrod and Semiramis.

To put it all together, 'post-human' is a stench in God's nostrils. He never intended for man to do those things. And again, Jesus is the Saviour of mankind, not post-mankind.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
You're both wrong.

Genesis 6 is when "the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair" and "took wives all that they chose". The unholy union between angel and man spawned the nephilim, which was/is only part human, but vastly superior to humans in all physical and mental capacities (strength, intelligence, etc.). They were referred to in the Bible as "the mighty men of old, the men of renown." They are also called giants.

The Tower of Babel happened after the flood, led by Nimrod and Semiramis.

To put it all together, 'post-human' is a stench in God's nostrils. He never intended for man to do those things. And again, Jesus is the Saviour of mankind, not post-mankind.

Again, technology is man-made, Angels are divine as in made by the Lord. Tampering with human DnA is what probably will cause a Jihaadist movement or two. Just like Stem Cell research. That's just the way it is with religion.

And many religions do argue against technology and also against tampering with DnA. However, neither argument can be made as specific post-human science related were never brought up in the texts of the time.

Any argument would be theoretical. It's not impossible that we have a Lord that encourages positive innovations to ourselves and what we can do.

It is also possible that in that particular instance, we were trying to create a master race, but breeding with Angels really does sound sacrilegious, it's not us improving on our own, we're using a short cut.

This is the problem with accepting religious ideas even partially. New eccentricities have to be developed to incorporate the incongruities of the earlier ideas.

In this iteration of the confusion, humans are blessed/saved/etc. but that leaves the problem of other intelligences. Religious literalists will claim only humans as we currently exist are saved. But most compassionate people will realize that consciousness is almost certainly possible outside a human form, or at another stage of evolution (natural or directed). In fact, it probably already exists in many developed animals.

But instead of retreating from the initial religious idea and seeing ourselves as animals like the rest, the whole "saved" system has to be reinterpreted to appeal to transhumanists or animal advocates.

Dolos, I'm not going to convince you of anything here. There's not much point in trying anyway. But, you ask "Why only bless humans?" It's a good question once you encounter the problem you did. But there are three possible answers.
- More than humans are "blessed"
- Only humans are blessed
- No one is

Make sure you give equal consideration to all three, as your train of thought only seems to allow for the first two.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
To put it all together, 'post-human' is a stench in God's nostrils. He never intended for man to do those things. And again, Jesus is the Saviour of mankind, not post-mankind.

Just as I'm sure the God of a few million years ago hated the putrid stench of homosapiens as they naturally came into being. Maybe God will send a new savior for post-Mankind...RoboJesus or something.

Much more alarming to me is how your position - excuse the term - dehumanizes any possible consciousness that could arise outside ourselves. A thinking, feeling, synthetic consciousness would be "a stench in God's nostrils" according to your logic here. I hope this type of thinking has largely died off by the time these sorts of advances happen, though I fear it won't.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
To put it all together, 'post-human' is a stench in God's nostrils. He never intended for man to do those things. And again, Jesus is the Saviour of mankind, not post-mankind.

Do you have a full list of things that weren't intended?

Do glasses remove one from humanity? Contacts? Retinal implants? If a person loses a leg and is given a prosthetic one have they become a stench in God's nostrils?

Originally posted by Bat Dude
He never intended for man to do those things.

if God is both omniscient and omnipotent, this is actually impossible...

Free Will. It answers all God-based paradoxes.

Originally posted by Oliver North
if God is both omniscient and omnipotent, this is actually impossible...

Originally posted by Omega Vision
It can be possible--if God is incredibly capricious, and creates humanity such that it will disappoint him so that he can punish them

but then he would have intended for us to do them

Originally posted by Oliver North
but then he would have intended for us to do them

but if he knows the future and everything is a product of his will, free will or not, you can't argue he didn't intend for it to happen, moral consequences aside.

idk, I agree, I don't get the argument either.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Do you have a full list of things that weren't intended?

Do glasses remove one from humanity? Contacts? Retinal implants? If a person loses a leg and is given a prosthetic one have they become a stench in God's nostrils?

Glasses do not change your humanity, do they?

Or contacts?

Retinal implants?

Prosthetic arms and legs?

No, they do not. You are still human. "Post-human" is something beyond human, hence the name.

I'm not talking about glasses/contacts to fix eyesight or prosthetic legs to walk. I'm talking about changing the basic nature of humanity, such as brain augmentation or DNA manipulation.

As someone who used to LOVE comic books (especially Batman [hence my username] and Spider-Man) I can confidently say that Spider-Man is an abomination before God. He's not even really human, but rather a "post-human" or a "hybrid", and the new film (and even the old 2002 film) elaborates on that.

God made humans to be human, not "post-human", just like he made gorillas to be gorillas, fish to be fish, eagles to be eagles, spiders to be spiders, plants to be plants, amoeba to be amoeba, etc.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
Glasses do not change your humanity, do they?

Or contacts?

Retinal implants?

Prosthetic arms and legs?

No, they do not. You are still human. "Post-human" is something beyond human, hence the name.

I'm not talking about glasses/contacts to fix eyesight or prosthetic legs to walk. I'm talking about changing the basic nature of humanity, such as brain augmentation or DNA manipulation.

As someone who used to LOVE comic books (especially Batman [hence my username] and Spider-Man) I can confidently say that Spider-Man is an abomination before God. He's not even really human, but rather a "post-human" or a "hybrid", and the new film (and even the old 2002 film) elaborates on that.

God made humans to be human, not "post-human", just like he made gorillas to be gorillas, fish to be fish, eagles to be eagles, spiders to be spiders, plants to be plants, amoeba to be amoeba, etc.

Technically we're still human even if technology augments or even replaces most of our bodies.

Technology will never be able to replace our organic brains, it will be able to assimilate our consciousness by replacing our brain with a similar structure, but composed of nanobots as opposed to cells.

That seems a holy sacrifice to me, a sacrifice for the evolution of intelligent life. More intelligent beings are closer to God, more in His likeness, because according to every religion our God is an intelligent one.

Originally posted by Oliver North
idk, I agree, I don't get the argument either.

Coherence.

It's okay I understood you.

My argument is that God would desire the technological singularity.

My idea of God is the Transcension Hypothesis, Accelerating Returns, when viewed from an end-point. The idea is that there is no limit to intelligence or technological sophistication, so the end-point is unreachable, but nothing is unreachable for an omnipotent consciousness, and the ultimatum of an infinitely accelerating consciousness is an imaginary exponent, a concept, infinity, omnipotence.

So from a non-linear, duo-existential viewpoint, God both created existence and consciousness to evolve, and is the endpoint of that consciousness. Sounds impossible? Nothing is impossible for omnipotence.

Originally posted by Bat Dude

As someone who used to LOVE comic books (especially Batman [hence my username] and Spider-Man) I can confidently say that Spider-Man is an abomination before God. He's not even really human, but rather a "post-human" or a "hybrid", and the new film (and even the old 2002 film) elaborates on that.

God made humans to be human, not "post-human", just like he made gorillas to be gorillas, fish to be fish, eagles to be eagles, spiders to be spiders, plants to be plants, amoeba to be amoeba, etc.

I would love to hear your definition of what makes an eagle an eagle, what constitutes "eagleness."