Darth Bane vs Darth Malgus

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Unless you can show me Bane doing something rivaling that of Malgus, I stand by my argument.

Bane's lighting left literally nothing of his opponents at it's highest manifestations, his Force Void left nothing of his opponents, he had the technical proficiency in the Force to create and even ENTER holocrons in spirit form. In terms of combat he battered down his opponents, on the offensive the entirety of almost all his battles. We have someone who seems likely to be around a high 6 to 7 in terms of sabers absorbing Malgus' attacks as they begin and for a time forcing him on the defensive before he can turn the tables. I've spelled it out, I've given you examples, I've given you quotes.

For every high showing you provided for Malgus, Bane has higher. Malgus only evinces TK, Force push, and lightning; Bane demonstrates techniques that Malgus never even sniffed at and never showed the capacity of being capable of.

You show me what Malgus did that is better than Bane's top manifestations of the Force. None of your examples are equal to what Bane unleashed. Most certainly what Malgus does not demonstrate anywhere in the examples you posted is power or speed in saber combat that is capable of overcoming what Bane showed during any point in his dueling. I conceded that his lighting might be beyond that of Dooku, but his saber prowess most certainly is not. To that point as well lighting of that level is not something that Bane would have trouble overcoming.

Malgus dies. He doesn't go out with a whimper, but it would take an extraordinary set of circumstances for him to overcome Bane.

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You keep claiming stuff. If Bane is so good, why not prove it?

Shouldn't be hard. In fact, you haven't provided a single quote.
Meanwhile, I have given you all of Malgus'.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
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You keep claiming stuff. If Bane is so good, why not prove it?

Shouldn't be hard. In fact, you haven't provided a single quote.
Meanwhile, I have given you all of Malgus'.

YOU QUOTED WHAT I HAD ALREADY QUOTED EARLIER. HE TURNED THE RIDERS TO ASH. THERE WAS NOTHING LEFT OF THEM BUT ASH. This is something that Malgus did not demonstrate. Malgus' does evince strong lightning, but it is nothing beyond what Lord Kopecz demonstrates when he boards the Jedi ship during the space battle, turning a Force user into a convulsing, smoking corpse.

I'm glad you took the time to copy and paste every line from Deceived, it gave great insight into Malgus' abilities. I provided the quote about Bane ashing bodies; Q99 provided you the example of Bane doing so again later. That part is in what's redacted on GBooks so I can't provide the quote, but 213 has him unleashing a Force Wave that crushes the organs of a cadre of guards surrounding him while he is still drugged.

Further, going back and looking through DoE, I had forgotten entirely about the fact that he fought almost the entire time when he was ambushed in his estate while blinded by flash grenades. Repeating what he demonstrated in his youth, killing multiple targets with single shots using only the Force to guide him, he used the Force to fight his ambushers. Look it up on Google Books if you want to read the excerpt. Starts around 161.

If you're going to act like you need every word of what was done to substantiate Bane's ability then we might as well hang this up now. All of these showings are discussed at length in other threads and are not in dispute. The only reason you needed to show anything because outside of Deceived there is nothing speaking to Malgus being of any great ability other than Sidious' referring Vader to his example. I have fully admitted that he was strong in the Force, but he does not surpass Bane. His only feats are TK, Lightning, and Force Waves, and he does not outclass Bane in any of those regards, nor does he show the higher capabilities in the Force that Bane does.

Read p148-49 in DoE and tell me if you honestly think Malgus' has the capability in the Force to enter the holocron as Bane did, overcome Andeddu's essence, and maintain the hours' long effort to rearrange the lattices to get what he seeks. He had already spent the past four days taking the device from the temple, using the Force to navigate the hyperspace lanes away from the planet, and working to unlock what was within and still manages this feat.

Now you have the pages, read to your delight. No one has argued that what I have said didn't occur, so for you to act otherwise is asinine.

That's all great. But Bane didn't reduce anyone to ash in DoE I'm 99% sure.

In choosing to argue for Malgus, I have satisfied my burden. Nothing of what you are posting makes me change my mind.

I'm not arguing against RoT Bane whilst wearing Orbalisks. I know what he's capable of. But has DoE Bane turned people to ash with his lightning? No.

Has DoE Bane disintegrated beings? No.

If you prove me wrong on either account I will concede the point.

Entering a holocron is all good. Qui-Gon became a force ghost. It's not power he's able to demonstrate in a fight.

We can agree to disagree or you can provide telekinesis showings from that of Bane that surpasses Malgus'.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
That's all great. But Bane didn't reduce anyone to ash in DoE I'm 99% sure.

In choosing to argue for Malgus, I have satisfied my burden. Nothing of what you are posting makes me change my mind.

I'm not arguing against RoT Bane whilst wearing Orbalisks. I know what he's capable of. But has DoE Bane turned people to ash with his lightning? No.

Has DoE Bane disintegrated beings? No.

p110 of DoE he does exactly that. The attack is actually quite similar to what happened to Githany and everyone else who were struck by the shockwave from the Thought Bomb. The Void is described as an aura of pure dark side energy.

As he strides through the hallways using the Force he snaps the necks of those in his way without missing a step. Again, beyond anything Malgus ever demonstrates.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
p110 of DoE he does exactly that. The attack is actually quite similar to what happened to Githany and everyone else who were struck by the shockwave from the Thought Bomb. The Void is described as an aura of pure dark side energy.

As he strides through the hallways using the Force he snaps the necks of those in his way without missing a step. Again, beyond anything Malgus ever demonstrates.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I'm not arguing against RoT Bane whilst wearing Orbalisks. I know what he's capable of. But has DoE Bane turned people to ash with his lightning? No.

Has DoE Bane disintegrated beings? No.

I fail to see why this is a distinction that needs to be brought up. When he disintegrated the beast riders he had only a single orbalisk attached. Given that even with his entire body covered in orbalisks there is not a notably large boost to his capabilities, its highly unlikely that a single orbalisk affected his abilities enough to completely write off the feat as you wish to.

Likewise he disintegrated a full dozen technobeats. Its obvious that he would be capable of doing it on a lesser number without the orbalisk boost. Either way, disintegration seems to me to be more an indication of mastery and skill, not power. So the orbalisks boosting his power is irrelevent imo to that aspect of the feat.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I fail to see why this is a distinction that needs to be brought up. When he disintegrated the beast riders he had only a single orbalisk attached. Given that even with his entire body covered in orbalisks there is not a notably large boost to his capabilities, its highly unlikely that a single orbalisk affected his abilities enough to completely write off the feat as you wish to.

Likewise he disintegrated a full dozen technobeats. Its obvious that he would be capable of doing it on a lesser number without the orbalisk boost. Either way, disintegration seems to me to be more an indication of mastery and skill, not power. So the orbalisks boosting his power is irrelevent imo to that aspect of the feat.

It is possible. But why should I assume he can do it without when he's done nothing suggesting so?

Plagueis is my favorite character. He only used lightning twice. The first time he killed his victim. The second time he reduced his victim to dust, however he was only capable of that after absorbing a blaster bolt. Shall we assume he is capable of turning victims to ask under normal circumstances? I think not.

The above should've been ...''Shall we assume he is capable of turning victims to dust under normal circumstances''...

Intrepid, I find your attempts to low-ball or dismiss Bane's feats quite amusing.

The people in the temple who's necks he snapped were Force-sensitives amped by a nexus.

Also, that field is usable off a nexus, he just has to kill a lot of people instantly, or he is tired out. He only brought it up on a nexus when he was sure to get the first wave. However, once some people die to it, he can use their life energy to fuel it, making it last much longer. In a 1v1 fight, it is entirely viable, since being exhausted afterwards is not an issue.

Originally posted by axel_jovan
Wasn't Bane amped when he used DS field?

They were Force-users or random mooks?

It's covered by Pwned and another poster just above this, but they were Force sensitives, users, and priests of Andeddu's order. It was a world where all dark siders had increased power. The passage says that it was feeding off of their essence as he destroyed them that allowed Bane to maintain it for so long. That's why elsewhere I said that I doubted Zannah could have maintained her tentacles in a gauntlet situation because they too were pure dark side energy.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
It is possible. But why should I assume he can do it without when he's done nothing suggesting so?

Plagueis is my favorite character. He only used lightning twice. The first time he killed his victim. The second time he reduced his victim to dust, however he was only capable of that after absorbing a blaster bolt. Shall we assume he is capable of turning victims to ask under normal circumstances? I think not.

So you're really going to assume that he could only manifest lighting of that power if he's struck by/absorbs a bolt first? That's pretty laughable. I guess Malgus could only pull off is feats if he's facing possible death and has part of a building dropped on his head first. You're just getting silly at this point.

There are instances of other force users only being able to manifest certain powers after absorbing energy. Corran Horn most obviously.

Yeah, but I don't think a single bolt of plasma is going to be the deal breaker as to whether or not Plagueis can manifest such again.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
So you're really going to assume that he could only manifest lighting of that power if he's struck by/absorbs a bolt first? That's pretty laughable. I guess Malgus could only pull off is feats if he's facing possible death and has part of a building dropped on his head first. You're just getting silly at this point.

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Absorbing bolts gives more energy. Facing death with troubled breathing... doesn't...

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Yeah, but I don't think a single bolt of plasma is going to be the deal breaker as to whether or not Plagueis can manifest such again.

True, a blaster isn't a crazy amount of energy.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
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Absorbing bolts gives more energy. Facing death with troubled breathing... doesn't...

Still makes no sense. It would take a LOT of plasma to disintegrate a body. A few little bolts aren't going to take him to a level that he could not reach otherwise. Think what you want, but it's getting a bit silly trying to say "conditions must be x,y,z" for a feat to occur when there's nothing out of the ordinary going on in the situation.

I'm going by what characters have achieved under normal circumstances. If you want to go by what characters ''can'' achieve, cool, but I'm not gonna argue with that logic.

Sheet, then we're going to have to throw out half of the feats Luke managed over the years if only "normal" circumstances can be taken into account.

I think I'm done here.