Darth Bane vs Darth Malgus

Started by The_Tempest9 pages

No, please continue.

Why?

I wish to see you and Ascendancy clash like warring gods.

Who do you agree with?

Bane has some impressive feats, thanks to the hack writing of the most successful hack in the franchise. But I think you've defended your case very well and have brutally clobbered the Bane faction on some longstanding weaknesses. Namely, dark side nexuses/orbalisks.

People actually attempted to address any nexus feats in the past, it's been answered by providing slightly lesser showings while Bane was handicapped. The easiest to point out is him fight Zannah unarmed, and the Breakout in DoE while heavily drugged.

All I've seen is people conclude that Bane could replicate such feats outside of a nexus without evidence to support it.

As far as the feat in Andeddu's temple is concerned, DoE specifically states that Bane's opponents were not Force sensitive: "The Force did not flow through their veins; they were nothing but fodder." Only their fury was driven by the temple's dark side presence. And even on the nexus, the text notes that Bane would have been exhausted had he not also consumed the cultists' life energy as they died.

I thought everyone conceded the fact that it's not a feat he could maintain at length in any setting. I only pointed it out as an example of his understanding of the Force, as well as to show that someone who doesn't have an understanding of more arcane techniques could be in trouble against it.

Bane is one of the more powerful Force users, along with Vitiate, Sidious, Zannah, et al, who have manifested attacks that are denoted as being comprised of pure Force energy, not simply a manipulation of the flow of the Force.

I don't remember Bane winning an actual duel.

Kas'im? Won by collapsing the temple on him.

Farfalla and the other Jedi? It is implied the Orbalisks gave him a clear advantage, and even then he only managed to overpower them when Zannah distracted them.

Zannah? He had the edge most of the fight but didn't manage to do more than kick her a few times if I remember correctly. Either way Zannah is nearly featless besides beating Set Harth who is a joke.

Bane is getting overrated here.

Sirak.

Featless, if I remember correctly.

Top student of the sith academy, so we've got other academy students to compare him to. And he was good enough with the force to use some fairly advanced tricks, like force barrier.

That certainly puts Bane among the best of the best.

This is rich. Bane memorised hundreds of thousands of sequences in a short amount of time and progressed so far in his lightsaber skills that he was said to be 'beyond forms.' For all your dismissal Sirak was heralded to be the Sith'ari and yet Bane ****ing owned easily. Making him look like a complete joke. He beat Kas'im in lightsabers before the latter switched to dual blades. He tore through Zannah's 'perfect defense' with ease, said to be moving so fast that it appeared as if he wielded a dozen lightsabers at once. He charged the Jedi Strike Team so fast that only their BM enhancement saved them from being crushed, and afterwards when the BM faded he was able to push back 3 of them at the same time. He stood in a torrential downpour for 20 minutes and was able to block or dodge every single drop, emerging bone dry afterwards. Bane's skills and ability in lightsaber combat is not in question. Malgus has shown nothing to indicate that he's in Bane's league. Bane would destroy him.

Furthermore, your argument can apply to Yoda as well. Yoda's never won a single duel. He must suck.

Originally posted by Nephthys
This is rich. Bane memorised hundreds of thousands of sequences in a short amount of time and progressed so far in his lightsaber skills that he was said to be 'beyond forms.'

Statements only go so far.

Originally posted by Nephthys
For all your dismissal Sirak was heralded to be the Sith'ari and yet Bane ****ing owned easily. Making him look like a complete joke

Good for him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He beat Kas'im in lightsabers before the latter switched to dual blades..

...and when he did that, Bane was noting himself to be ''no match'' for Kas'im, if I remember correctly.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He tore through Zannah's 'perfect defense' with ease,

Statements only go so far.

Originally posted by Nephthys
said to be moving so fast that it appeared as if he wielded a dozen lightsabers at once.

Good for him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He charged the Jedi Strike Team so fast that only their BM enhancement saved them from being crushed, and afterwards when the BM faded he was able to push back 3 of them at the same time.

Had the Jedi enjoyed the same advantages Bane's orbalisk armor provided, their encounter would have ended long ago. Bane could shrug off otherwise lethal blows, forgoing all sense of personal safety in a reckless assault of pure offense to overwhelm her defenses.

-Rule of Two

Originally posted by Nephthys
He stood in a torrential downpour for 20 minutes and was able to block or dodge every single drop, emerging bone dry afterwards.

Yet couldn't outspeed Zannah who has never been noted as more than a blur if I remember correctly.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane's skills and ability in lightsaber combat is not in question. Malgus has shown [b]nothing to indicate that he's in Bane's league. Bane would destroy him. [/B]

Your argument relies on Bane fighting featless fodder and then his speed. Not cutting it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Furthermore, your argument can apply to Yoda as well. Yoda's never won a single duel. He must suck.

Yoda, in comparison to Bane, has

a) Forced Dooku to flee on Geonosis
b) Overpowered Dooku on Vjun where he was amped
c) Disarmed Sidious
d) Confirmed superior to Mace Windu as a duelist
e) Noted as ''perhaps the best duelist the Order had ever produced''.

Yoda would crush Bane.

Double post.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Statements only go so far.

They go far enough. You can't simply ignore them.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Good for him.

It is good for him, and the duel shows how skilled Bane is, able to deal with Sirak so easily that he can fake having trouble.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
...and when he did that, Bane was noting himself to be ''no match'' for Kas'im, if I remember correctly.

Because Bane is wholly unfamiliar with the dual blades. Not for a lack of skill or ability that would be relevant here. Malgus doesn't use 2 lightsabers ordinarily.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Statements only go so far.

They go far enough. You can't simply ignore them.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Good for him.

It is. Bane's speed should allow him to handle Malgus comfortably.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Had the Jedi enjoyed the same advantages Bane's orbalisk armor provided, their encounter would have ended long ago. Bane could shrug off otherwise lethal blows, forgoing all sense of personal safety in a reckless assault of pure offense to overwhelm her defenses.

-Rule of Two

Irrelevent. The only reason this was brought up is because it was showing how recklessly the Orbalisks allowed him to fight. He wouldn't have fought like that had he not been wearing the orbalisks.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yet couldn't outspeed Zannah who has never been noted as more than a blur if I remember correctly.

He was able to dodge her lightsaber unarmed and in the duel later he was pushing her back. And again, him not being able to overwhelm her simply means that she was an impressive combatant with an impressive defense. Defending herself against Bane is all the proof we need that she was impressively fast.

Also she does note his high speed. 😉

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Your argument relies on Bane fighting featless fodder and then his speed. Not cutting it.

While yours is......... remind me again what Malgus has done thats so impressive you think he can beat one of the top duelists in the mythos?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yoda, in comparison to Bane, has

a) Forced Dooku to flee on Geonosis
b) Overpowered Dooku on Vjun where he was amped
c) Disarmed Sidious
d) Confirmed superior to Mace Windu as a duelist
e) Noted as ''perhaps the best duelist the Order had ever produced''.

Yoda would crush Bane.

But he never actually won a duel. It funny how you can ignore the impressive aspects of Bane's fights and not Yoda's.

Originally posted by Nephthys
They go far enough. You can't simply ignore them.

Agen Kolar has been refered to be ''among the best duelists the Order had ever produced'' but his only showing is beating Vos.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It is good for him, and the duel shows how skilled Bane is, able to deal with Sirak so easily that he can fake having trouble.

I forgot Sirak is one of the most skilled duelists in the mythos.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Because Bane is wholly unfamiliar with the dual blades. Not for a lack of skill or ability that would be relevant here. Malgus doesn't use 2 lightsabers ordinarily.

True he doesn't. Kas'im is completely featless however. The best he's got going for him is being a blademaster like Kao.

Originally posted by Nephthys
hey go far enough. You can't simply ignore them.

Agen Kolar has been refered to be ''among the best duelists the Order had ever produced'' but his only showing is beating Vos.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It is. Bane's speed should allow him to handle Malgus comfortably.

Prove it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Irrelevent. The only reason this was brought up is because it was showing how recklessly the Orbalisks allowed him to fight. He wouldn't have fought like that had he not been wearing the orbalisks.

...and he's not wearing Orbalisks in the fight we're imagining.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He was able to dodge her lightsaber unarmed and in the duel later he was pushing her back. And again, him not being able to overwhelm her simply means that she was an impressive combatant with an impressive defense.

You're trying to make Bane sound good by going with his fight with Zannah. In that case you need to prove how good she is and you can't do that by refering to her fight with Bane.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Defending herself against Bane is all the proof we need that she was impressively fast.

Same as above. Prove she was ''impressively fast'' without taking her fight with Bane into account.

Originally posted by Nephthys
While yours is......... remind me again what Malgus has done thats so impressive you think he can beat one of the top duelists in the mythos?

Pretty sure I have already agreed that they're fairly equal in dueling.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But he never actually won a duel. It funny how you can ignore the impressive aspects of Bane's fights and not Yoda's.

And I fight it quite amusing that you ignore Yoda disarming Sidious. 😬

Actually, he can] refer to that fight, as the proof is in the descriptive text from the author, otherwise known as an All-knowing observer.

You still need to answer several of his questions, btw.

IIRC, Kolar was one of the ones that went to fight Sidious. Being that the narrator called them some of the best, he is one of the best.

Originally posted by Pwned
Being that the narrator called them some of the best, he is one of the best.

Point is, being ''beyond forms'', having ''near-perfect skills'' or an ''impenetrable defense'' isn't gonna put you above warriors with impressive feats in combat.