Originally posted by JakeTheBank
BFRing him into a red sun is a bit too specific for the duo to do and more OOC than them merely dumping him into another dimension or void or somekind.Going intangible from the beginning of the fight is very in character for Loki, as is casting illusions that would fool the likes of Odin and others.
What's in character doesn't imply a character will automatically do it in every instance. But I don't believe it's in character for Loki to go intangible at the very beginning of a battle against someone (with no prep). Yes Loki has went intangible but that wasn't at the start of a fight against someone.
It's in character for Superman to use his speed and go intangible himself and sing beings out of existence and t-vo people, etc. See where that gets us?
Originally posted by h1a8
What's in character doesn't imply a character will automatically do it in every instance. But I don't believe it's in character for Loki to go intangible at the very beginning of a battle against someone (with no prep). Yes Loki has went intangible but that wasn't at the start of a fight against someone.It's in character for Superman to use his speed and go intangible himself and sing beings out of existence and t-vo people, etc. See where that gets us?
Yes, Loki has started fights before - numerous ones - by entering an intangible state. It's very in character for him.
Those examples don't happen nearly to the frequency of Loki phasing through attacks, let alone all at once. Loki going intangible or turning into an astral form is one of his primary modes of defense.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yes, Loki has started fights before - numerous ones - by entering an intangible state. It's very in character for him.Those examples don't happen nearly to the frequency of Loki phasing through attacks, let alone all at once. Loki going intangible or turning into an astral form is one of his primary modes of defense.
No he hasn't.
I'm talking about engaging someone at the very beginning and then becoming intangible. Him being intangible before the confrontation is called prep and is a different animal.
Like this
Loki starts not intangible then is about to fight while the other character knows he/she about to fight Loki in the next second. Then immediately before the first attack is launched Loki becomes intangible and fights the fight being intangible.
That's not what happens in comics.
Originally posted by h1a8
No he hasn't.
I'm talking about engaging someone at the very beginning and then becoming intangible. Him being intangible before the confrontation is called prep and is a different animal.Like this
Loki starts not intangible then is about to fight while the other character knows he/she about to fight Loki in the next second. Then immediately before the first attack is launched Loki becomes intangible and fights the fight being intangible.
That's not what happens in comics.
Yes...he has.
Fights have started off with Thor either throwing or swinging Mjolnir, only for Loki to phase through the attack. It's a very intrinsic part of the character. That's not him "prepping", that's him defending himself against the attack. He certainly goes intangible quite a bit in the midst of the fight as well.
Lets say Loki goes intangible, and since I'm the OP I say no battlefield removal, what the hell is Loki going to do to hurt Superman at this level, if he can even tag him?
We don't even know if tagging an intangible Loki or harming an intangible Loki is beyond his power-set, as he ripped pure energy apart - he is a partial energy being, and Loki is powered by Asgardian Energies as is Thor.
So, now you're turning BFR off ten pages into the debate?
Loki, while intangible, can still project blasts, use telepathy, cast illusons, etc. Anything he can do normally he can also do in an intangible state. And he can also go invisible in addition to intangible as well as cast a spell to remove sound from the battlefield.
Mjolnir can effect phased beings and has wrecked pure energy beings before but has a very low success rate when it comes to tagging Loki if he chooses to go intangible or phase through the attack.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So, now you're turning BFR off ten pages into the debate?Loki, while intangible, can still project blasts, use telepathy, cast illusons, etc. Anything he can do normally he can also do in an intangible state. And he can also go invisible in addition to intangible as well as cast a spell to remove sound from the battlefield.
Mjolnir can effect phased beings and has wrecked pure energy beings before but has a very low success rate when it comes to tagging Loki if he chooses to go intangible or phase through the attack.
It was never on, the second part of your first comment was fun.
So of Loki's damage output can harm THIS Superman, how has Thor ever stood up to him? Given he couldn't tag him?
This sounds like you're going a little overboard with Loki's power levels, not his versatility or set, but the extremity of said powers cannot contend with the likes of an AMPED Superman, the nature of his powers might have a detrimental effect that would make him a ***** for normal level Superman, but given certain circumstances even normal level Superman could pull it off, if he's not all permanently intangible trolling blasts like a wraith...if Thor can do it the Mongul II trained Superman could as well...it would just be slightly more difficult because his invulnerability does not go as far as magic. He still has invulnerability, and weaker attacks he'll shrug off, he just as no special defense like he does for almost everything else.
But when he's amped, Loki needs some of those 'Skyfather busters' you claim he can spam out. That's lulz worthy.
Originally posted by Dolos
It was never on, the second part of your first comment was fun.So of Loki's damage output can harm THIS Superman, how has Thor ever stood up to him? Given he couldn't tag him?
This sounds like you're going a little overboard with Loki's power levels, not his versatility or set, but the extremity of said powers cannot contend with the likes of an AMPED Superman, the nature of his powers might have a detrimental effect that would make him a ***** for normal level Superman, but given certain circumstances even normal level Superman could pull it off by throwing a phantom zone at him or using a boom tube or some other gadget, if he's all permanently intangible trolling blasts like a wraith.
It's on by default unless it's specified to be off.
Generally because Loki doesn't stay permanently intangible and/or cloaked and because his offensive powers aren't as effective as when he's solid. Also because Loki's arrogance and hatred for Thor makes him irrational when fighting him, just like Thor's caring for Loki winds up making him hold back or likewise doing stupid stuff in combat. Their respective CIS hinders each other in fights.
I'm not going overboard with his power levels at alll, but rather mentioned what he can, has, and probably will do. In character, no, Loki won't stay phased at all times and attack from that state - something I already said as way back as the first page. But if he's in that state, it's extremely difficult to harm him. Loki's output can hurt skyfathers as can Thor's. Doesn't mean they're unstoppable or unbeatable. And Superman, to my knowledge, doesn't carry gadgets or PZ projectors on hand.
The reality is that Loki's power set, depending on how he uses it, makes it difficult to best him. Mjolnir (and CIS) happen to be even things up more than a bit.
Caught your edit here.
Originally posted by Dolos
...if Thor can do it the Mongul II trained Superman could as well...it would just be slightly more difficult because his invulnerability does not go as far as magic. He still has invulnerability, and weaker attacks he'll shrug off, he just as no special defense like he does for almost everything else.But when he's amped, Loki needs some of those 'Skyfather busters' you claim he can spam out. That's lulz worthy.
Thor's power set enables him to deal with Loki more efficiently than Superman's. Mjolnir is catered to deal with mystical threats and attacks.
"Skyfather busters"? Where did I say that? Loki's attacks can hurt Skyfathers, sure, but Thor's got the better record for harming, if not crippling, skyfathers than Loki does by far.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's on by default unless it's specified to be off.Generally because Loki doesn't stay permanently intangible and/or cloaked and because his offensive powers aren't as effective as when he's solid. Also because Loki's arrogance and hatred for Thor makes him irrational when fighting him, just like Thor's caring for Loki winds up making him hold back or likewise doing stupid stuff in combat. Their respective CIS hinders each other in fights.
I'm not going overboard with his power levels at alll, but rather mentioned what he can, has, and probably will do. In character, no, Loki won't stay phased at all times
When he's phased, Superman dances around avoiding Loki and Thor's attacks, shrugging off what connects with some good damage from Thor's best attacks, which he'd be putting most of the effort into avoiding as opposed to phased Loki's. With a sustained speed-onslaught he'll take out Thor, and when Loki unphases, he gets speedblitzed.
The reality is that Loki's power set, depending on how he uses it, makes it difficult to best him.
We're talking about a Superman that's even more of cool precise mathematical powerhouse than when the stakes are highest, with umpteenth the power.
Mjolnir (and CIS) happen to be even things up more than a bit.
Not here.
Loki's phasing and cloaking spells aren't limited to himself.
I know who Superman is. Even so, powerful as he is in this state, Loki's powerset will make himself and Thor incredibly hard to detect, let alone physically interact with. If Loki phases himself and Thor, there's not much Superman can do to stop it. That's the reality of the situation. Conversely, they do have the feats to warrant them not being one shot and being able to damage Superman.
Sure it does.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Loki's phasing and cloaking spells aren't limited to himself.I know who Superman is. Even so, powerful as he is in this state, Loki's powerset will make himself and Thor incredibly hard to detect, let alone physically interact with. If Loki phases himself and Thor, there's not much Superman can do to stop it. That's the reality of the situation. Conversely, they do have the feats to warrant them not being one shot and being able to damage Superman.
Sure it does.
The results the same.
Tell me, how much more powerful do you believe Thanos to be than Soulfire Darkseid?
Do you think Loki or Thor could take the majority on a Superman who could break Soulfire Darkseid in half and whose speed dwarfs theirs, along with reflexes and combat intelligence that dwarf theirs (going solo of course).
I really don't think they could harm him anymore than he could harm them during a phased state, as he can phase as well, only he is faster and his reactions and combat intelligence and energy output all must dwarf theirs by a mile because of the two power ups from training and sun-dip in OWAW. He's practically Thanos level, if not there.
Do you think Thanos would have great difficulty with this team? If not I think you're overrating them because they're going to have a match up in Thor 2 and you're a Thor fanboy. I cannot get over the strong bias I sense you have for the two characters.