Classic Juggernaut vs Destroyer

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Reality is altered, there for it is an alternate reality.

House of M, Wanda had a break down and altered reality to recreate her lost children. The universe where House of M takes place is designated as Earth-58163, not Earth 616.

The story in New Warriors #11 - 13, "Forever Yesterday" has it's own universe #: Earth 9105

Edit: Also, this realities Avengers, appear in Avengers forever #11 & #12.

616 Juggernaut has had his flesh magically stripped from his bones. Guess what skin and muscle tissue are made of? And yet he still stood.

Back to Wolverine, you claim is still alive despite several characters mention his sacrifice (death) several times. In 616, he healed from bones in hours I do believe. So until they explore the reality further and Wolverine is shown/said to still be alive, he is dead.

And HOM was a specific new reality that carried on after its conclusion.

Haha, online bios. At least grab an official bio if you're going to combat numerous scans that go against that.

Although I fail to see how their appearance in Avengers Forever proves this, seeing as they could have grabbed Avengers from the past, and it would have been alternate versions. He could have literally grabbed Pym from a minute before he was sent through time, and it would have been an alternate version. But that's time travel for you. Hell, the mere fact that he grabbed them from a time that we saw start and end proves that he grabbed alternate versions of them. Which means there's possibly more.
Also, the Avengers Forever versions seem awfully white, but I digress.

And the magical flesh rip would imply Juggernaut can pretty much not be put down at all. How did rapid aging, sonics, (assuming he had no brain there) numerous occasions of psychic attacks, etc, stop him? Yes, it's a cool feat, but it's also retarded and goes against a large amount of his history.

I believe the first time Wolverine healed from a skeleton it took weeks. Wolverine's healing factor was at its worst there. IE, there's room for him to have live through that.
Unless Thor's godly power just shut him down.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Who's that Thor looking guy?

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080203035244/marveldatabase/images/7/73/Avengers_%28Earth-9105%29.jpg

Basically that picture is of two (or more) Avenger teams from different realities. The Egyptian ones (with Horus) are from the reality in the New Warriors story. Basically in that story, Time-Keepers used the Forever Crystal to summon Avengers from divergent realities that had turned dark and destructive. That Thor looking guy is a bad version of Thor. I kind of like the idea of Thor having a horned helmet.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Who's that Thor looking guy?

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080203035244/marveldatabase/images/7/73/Avengers_%28Earth-9105%29.jpg

Not sure what you mean by that. The eagle headed guy is Horus in the End mini?

I'm not debating whether it was an alternate reality or not, but I really don't think you can use any feats seen in this Universe for the 616. Origins being changed, it being only temporary etc. is a lot liberty to do whatever with characters even if power levels are relatively the same (Streets are streets, heralds are heralds etc.)

Simple things like Cain gaining his powers from mutations instead of Cytorrak may seem trivial but is in fact a huge change and deviation from the character. Thor not having Mjolnir and channeling Solar Egyptian power is another example. Not to mention he's beat up Horus.

This is just my opinion anyways.

That I recall, yes.

But it's the same characters. She only created a false mythos for everyone, including herself. The only power differential in the entire arc was a sudden powerful burst from Nova which he said he's never done before.

And that assumes Juggernaut's mutant powers don't give him a connection with Cy. Or that the writers cared enough to research it considering that was a time when writers weren't sure of what the hell he was, including his Thor issues.

It was never explained what Thor channeled.

Exactly, and Horus doesn't carry an Ankh, or a weapon anything like Mjolnir. He was Horus in name. That's where the similarities end. It was basically a superficial change.

You really are dense. All the proof is right there in front of you that it is an alternate reality. Every site that has detailed info on the Forever Yesterday story line list that reality as 9105.

A big thing in comics and other mediums, is if you tamper with a timeline, it will become a divergent reality. That is indeed an alternate reality.

I notice you took out the part on Horus utilizing solar energy. I don't think Thor has Superman powers, if he does, they are not part of his main power source.

You are practically on your own here. Every bio online has the same info. And I am sure even if I had a Marvel Appendix with this info, you'd dismiss that too like everyone else does here.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
You really are dense. All the proof is right there in front of you that it is an alternate reality. Every site that has detailed info on the Forever Yesterday story line list that reality as 9105.

A big thing in comics and other mediums, is if you tamper with a timeline, it will become a divergent reality. That is indeed an alternate reality.

I notice you took out the part on Horus utilizing solar energy. I don't think Thor has Superman powers, if he does, they are not part of his main power source.

You are practically on your own here. Every bio online has the same info. And I am sure even if I had a Marvel Appendix with this info, you'd dismiss that too like everyone else does here.

And when it uses all 616 characters and occurs on the Earth of the 616 universe? A big thing in comics is acknowledging the actual comics themselves too, and the scans that come from it. Which you failed to accomplish.
The funny thing is, even if it were an alternate reality, it's still using the same characters from 616, so it fails to create a difference.

Then post the actual entry from the Marvel handbooks and see what I think about it. Don't threaten me with it.
"If I would have posted the scans from the actual comic that show the world was just remade and then remade back, that it was lies, that it occurred in the same universe, and that the same characters were being used, you would ignore that too."

As it stands, I'm ignoring fan made bios that arbitrarily assigned a number to the feat, and you're ignoring the comics themselves.

Though the Galactus fan in me wants to believe she created an entire universe. I wonder what the Juggernaut fan in you says...

The reality number is not fan made and the story did not take place on 616 earth.

Official Handbook of The Marvel Universe - Alternate Universes 2005

Earth-9105 Forever Yesterday. New Warriors #11 (1991)

There, out of an official Marvel Handbook listing it as an Alternate Universe. Not 616 but 9105.

There we go, was that so hard?

Although that makes the feat possibly universal, it doesn't change much since it's still the same characters being used from 616.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

What are you talking about? [B]Both Hulk and Thor were beating the absolute crap out of him. IIRC War Hulk was about to straight up decapitate him (Been a while since I've read that fight) and Thor was like one punch away from laying him out.
[/B]

Originally posted by the Darkone
Like jake said depending on who is controlling destroyer, someone like Odin, Thor and Loki know how to use the armor, and the armor can summon more power from earth pantheons sky fathers , well juggernaut is in some major trouble!

Originally posted by googol
Never happened, now if you have scans showing Thor or Hulk drawing any type of fluids out of him(Crap, blood, tears) I welcome you to do it, otherwise all they(hulk and thor) were doing is knocking him down, which never even draw blood from him,not once

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
What's the stance on how much power Collusos had?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Different reality.

That I recall, yes.

But it's the same characters. She only created a false mythos for everyone, including herself. The only power differential in the entire arc was a sudden powerful burst from Nova which he said he's never done before.

And that assumes Juggernaut's mutant powers don't give him a connection with Cy. Or that the writers cared enough to research it considering that was a time when writers weren't sure of what the hell he was, including his Thor issues.

It was never explained what Thor channeled.

Exactly, and Horus doesn't carry an Ankh, or a weapon anything like Mjolnir. He was Horus in name. That's where the similarities end. It was basically a superficial change.

Hmm, okay.

At best, we'd have to go by a case by case basis. The changes could be superficial or monumental depending on what part of their origin was changed. It's not like she just implanted false memories, history was literally changed, no?

At the end of the day, there's just too much shit going on for you to think anyone would just broadly accept this as relevant to the 616.

Didn't one of you mention Egyptian solar power or whatever? Also 616 Horus does have a staff like weapon that he uses or that Ankh thing was also seen:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/DefeatsHorusEgyGod3.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/DefeatsHorusEgyGod4.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/DefeatsHorusEgyGod5.jpg

I know it's ultimately irrelevant but I wanted to post some cool Thor scans.

Originally posted by googol
Never happened, now if you have scans showing Thor or Hulk drawing any type of fluids out of him(Crap, blood, tears) I welcome you to do it, otherwise all they(hulk and thor) were doing is knocking him down, which never even draw blood from him,not once

What? A character has to bleeding to be hurt? Both instances had Juggernaut on his last legs, he was getting annihilated. I can think of only 3 other instances when he has sustained a worse beating (Captain Universe, Onslaught and the Exemplars).

This is some dumb shit even by today standards, never mind back when comics were a lot less bloody.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hmm, okay.

At best, we'd have to go by a case by case basis. The changes could be superficial or monumental depending on what part of their origin was changed. It's not like she just implanted false memories, history was literally changed, no?

At the end of the day, there's just too much shit going on for you to think anyone would just broadly accept this as relevant to the 616.

Didn't one of you mention Egyptian solar power or whatever? Also 616 Horus does have a staff like weapon that he uses or that Ankh thing was also seen:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/DefeatsHorusEgyGod3.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/DefeatsHorusEgyGod4.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/DefeatsHorusEgyGod5.jpg

I know it's ultimately irrelevant but I wanted to post some cool Thor scans.

Originally posted by googol
Cyttorak said Colossus was drawing more power from the gem than Cain ever did(not counting the Trion juggernaut) but I just dont know, Demon colossus was wreking but Trion Juggernaut is another beast

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hmm, okay.

At best, we'd have to go by a case by case basis. The changes could be superficial or monumental depending on what part of their origin was changed. It's not like she just implanted false memories, history was literally changed, no?

At the end of the day, there's just too much shit going on for you to think anyone would just broadly accept this as relevant to the 616.

Didn't one of you mention Egyptian solar power or whatever? Also 616 Horus does have a staff like weapon that he uses or that Ankh thing was also seen:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/DefeatsHorusEgyGod3.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/DefeatsHorusEgyGod4.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/DefeatsHorusEgyGod5.jpg

I know it's ultimately irrelevant but I wanted to post some cool Thor scans.

Mayhaps. But it was 616 characters just reality manipped, so I personally don't see any distinction. I realize it's not canon to their history, but for all intents and purposes, they were the same character. Plus they'll have questionable dreams about it for all time.

I don't know. I just don't recall them saying he had solar powers. In fact, he was shooting lightning in that arc.
That's not really the same as a Mjolnir sized ankh that glows and fires lightning. Plus it got broken.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What? A character has to bleeding to be hurt? Both instances had Juggernaut on his last legs.

This is some dumb shit even by today standards, never mind back when comics were a lot less bloody.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
And Collusos was getting damaged by Kuurth. So...

Originally posted by googol
thor never "Beat the Crap" out classic Juggernaut, he has never draw blood or any type of fluids(Crap, piss) out of juggernaut, thor is incapable of doing any damage to juggernaut, with or without forcefield

Yeah, Juggernaut was fine and dandy here:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/JuggernautvsThor6.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/JuggernautvsThor7.jpg

Congratulations on the exceptionally flawed logic. I guess since Thor didn't draw blood but Feral did, she clearly did more damage:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/109340/2147811-shatterstarvjug1.jpg

Despite Thor beating Juggernaut so bad he could barely stand.

Kuurth was breaking Juggernaut's bones and shit, but I guess since we didn't see blood, he wasn't taking any damage. Seriously, such dumb logic. I've seen characters beaten to near death and not bleed.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Congratulations on the exceptionally flawed logic. I guess since Thor didn't draw blood but Feral did, she clearly did more damage:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/109340/2147811-shatterstarvjug1.jpg

Also, was it ever said that Juggernaut had an "unlimited" healing factor?