The Runner with a Primary Adamantium Katana runs the gauntlet...

Originally posted by Raisen
But they are in the same league of prose when you consider Asgardia has been VERY inconsistent, even moreso than the rest of comicdom. The skyfather tier itself has been debated for years with no resolution. The disparities between Vishnu, Zeus, Odin etc is clear, yet they are considered peers. Asgardians in general speak in poetic hyperbole on a regular basis. The threat of Serpent instantly comes to mind. Bor was confusing also, was it not? The stories of Asgardians have been retold in so many different ways.
When it comes down to it. You can accept the poetry or the feats. I'll accept the on-panel feats in this situation. I also can accept that Asgardians spew hyperbole. [B]They are a warrior clan, and elaborate and embellished stories are how all tribes have told history. Viking mythos, Native mythos, etc. all tell very tall tales for the sake of story and importance. [/B]

Yeah, Asgardians do enjoy flowery prose and the like. It doesn't change the facts concerning their power level. And their origin stories being inconsistent and changing depending on the flavor of the month has actually been conveniently explained as both Asgard possessing cycles (enabling various origins to be "true"😉, and Asgardians and the Gods themselves to be living "stories", whose endings and beginnings can be changed on a whim (an important element to take away from Fraction and Gillen's work).

You'd really have a point here if Odin didn't actually have insane feats and as such, set the benchmark as the premier skyfather in Marvel, if not in comics. Surtur's been the one character in comics to consistently give him a fight if not possess the means to kill him. And really, it seems like more effort and less plausible to throw out all the various feats, statements, and portrayals to decry that Surtur isn't a galaxy buster than to accept the numerous instances pointing out or suggesting he is.

And again, just recently, before Marvel NOW's relaunch, we saw Surtur's internal energies being universal in destructive scale and we also saw Odin warping it.

I'm not sure how much more clear cut it can get?

Originally posted by Raisen
How so? If anything, there are more circumstances displaying Hulk amping and not having a cap. We should only take Odin's word for it but dismiss 70 years of various heroes and scientists explicitly stating that the Hulk has limitless strength?

The fact that Hulk has been routed or defeated multiple times should put it to rest that he has limitless strength. His potential may as well be limitless, but he'll never reach that point.

Still not sure how that equates to us ignoring or taking everything Odin or the Asgardians say with salt when you compare it to their actual feats and how these characters compare?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yeah, Asgardians do enjoy flowery prose and the like. It doesn't change the facts concerning their power level. And their origin stories being inconsistent and changing depending on the flavor of the month has actually been conveniently explained as both Asgard possessing cycles (enabling various origins to be "true"😉, and Asgardians and the Gods themselves to be living "stories", whose endings and beginnings can be changed on a whim (an important element to take away from Fraction and Gillen's work).

You'd really have a point here if Odin didn't actually have insane feats and as such, set the benchmark as the premier skyfather in Marvel, if not in comics. Surtur's been the one character in comics to consistently give him a fight if not possess the means to kill him. And really, it seems like more effort and less plausible to throw out all the various feats, statements, and portrayals to decry that Surtur isn't a galaxy buster than to accept the numerous instances pointing out or suggesting he is.

And again, just recently, before Marvel NOW's relaunch, we saw Surtur's internal energies being universal in destructive scale and we also saw Odin warping it.

I'm not sure how much more clear cut it can get?

I think you and I will be stuck in a never-ending cycle of Ragnarok, on this subject at least.

Originally posted by Raisen
I think you and I will be stuck in a never-ending cycle of Ragnarok, on this subject at least.

Probably.

But in the case of feats only, Surtur's definitively and conclusively through feats and fights alike a peer to Odin, who is a confirmed galaxy buster. He also possesses internal energies to destroy a universe, which Odin has warped.

Agree or no?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Probably.

But in the case of feats only, Surtur's definitively and conclusively through feats and fights alike a peer to Odin, who is a confirmed galaxy buster.

Agree or no?

What does it take to bust a galaxy? strength? willpower? some type of energy? I ask because Surtur doesn't necessarily have the same powerset as Odin. He hasn't shown the versatility. We should have seen it by now, considering that he is the destroyer to Asgard, but we haven't. I just think you're arguments are a, b, c. they wouldn't hold up in court. lol

Also, could you refresh my memory and show me the scan where Odin is DISPLAYED as busting galaxies?

Originally posted by Raisen
What does it take to bust a galaxy? strength? willpower? some type of energy? I ask because Surtur doesn't necessarily have the same powerset as Odin. He hasn't shown the versatility. We should have seen it by now, considering that he is the destroyer to Asgard, but we haven't. I just think you're arguments are a, b, c. they wouldn't hold up in court. lol

For Odin, it's usually energy projection, but he does have that fight with Seth which is described explicitly as a brawl that wrecks galaxies.

And no, Surtur doesn't have the same power set as Odin, who is pretty versatile. But Surtur is still immensely strong physically as well as possesses intense fire based ancient elemental magic. Surtur doesn't wreck galaxies when he fights Asgard/Odin usually for the same reason Odin doesn't wreck them: plot. Doesn't mean he doesn't have that capability. And again, recently, as in the last appearance of Surtur which was a year or so ago, Surtur explicitly was stated (by various characters and narration itself) to have had universal threatening energies.

If we were to take this to court, there's more evidence in the form of feats, statements, and portrayals arguing Surtur is a galaxy buster than there is against it. At this point, you're better off just asking for a mod ruling on it than anything, imo.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
For Odin, it's usually energy projection, but he does have that fight with Seth which is described explicitly as a brawl that wrecks galaxies.

And no, Surtur doesn't have the same power set as Odin, who is pretty versatile. But Surtur is still immensely strong physically as well as possesses intense fire based ancient elemental magic. Surtur doesn't wreck galaxies when he fights Asgard/Odin usually for the same reason Odin doesn't wreck them: plot. Doesn't mean he doesn't have that capability. And again, recently, as in the last appearance of Surtur which was a year or so ago, Surtur explicitly was stated (by various characters and narration itself) to have had universal threatening energies.

If we were to take this to court, there's more evidence in the form of feats, statements, and portrayals arguing Surtur is a galaxy buster than there is against it. At this point, you're better off just asking for a mod ruling on it than anything, imo.

Scan of Odin actually being DISPLAYED in a galaxy busting feat?

tangential and so far off topic i can't believe pr (yet) hasn't come in yet to kick this things a$$ back in line.....

odin's confirmation of surtur's feat has, literally, no bearing whatsoever on this topic of whether or not a trans level guy with a sword can defeat surtur.

@sundip--while i agree thor can't be compared with runner, it WAS an example of surtur stepping up to prove that he was at least faster than thor (in blood and thunder, he was shown fast enough to impress warlock and surfer). when that's all you have, you mention it. there was also the feat where king thor battled that god of speed, easily being able to match his speed with the odin power. that doesn't mean surtur is fast enough to fight runner on his terms, but i think it at least suggests he could be capable of dealing with it, whether through aoe or a surprise strike (mantis once tripped him pretty easily--it's IN CHARACTER for runner to be arrogant and sloppy).

@galan--yeah, you're right on about the sword doing less than negligible damage. runner could at best run away and avoid him. if they are in an unbreakable dome, it would limit runner's movements and an aoe would certainly end him, no matter how fast he was going. no way runner could take surtur out.

Originally posted by leonidas
tangential and so far off topic i can't believe pr (yet) hasn't come in yet to kick this things a$$ back in line.....

odin's confirmation of surtur's feat has, literally, no bearing whatsoever on this topic of whether or not a trans level guy with a sword can defeat surtur.

@sundip--while i agree thor can't be compared with runner, it WAS an example of surtur stepping up to prove that he was at least faster than thor (in blood and thunder, he was shown fast enough to impress warlock and surfer). when that's all you have, you mention it. there was also the feat where king thor battled that god of speed, easily being able to match his speed with the odin power. that doesn't mean surtur is fast enough to fight runner on his terms, but i think it at least suggests he could be capable of dealing with it, whether through aoe or a surprise strike (mantis once tripped him pretty easily--it's IN CHARACTER for runner to be arrogant and sloppy).

@galan--yeah, you're right on about the sword doing less than negligible damage. runner could at best run away and avoid him. if they are in an unbreakable dome, it would limit runner's movements and an aoe would certainly end him, no matter how fast he was going. no way runner could take surtur out.

I brought up the Odin scan because Jake used Odin as a benchmark for Surtur. I only brought it up for that reason, even though it is A, B, C logic, I am not the one using that logic. However, I do want to see the scan. Can you produce it?

Originally posted by leonidas
odin's confirmation of surtur's feat has, literally, no bearing whatsoever on this topic of whether or not a trans level guy with a sword can defeat surtur.

It's not just "can a Trans Tier guy with a sharp sword beat Surtur", it's "can Surtur even SEE/INTERACT with a PISLESS Runner"?

Surtur is NOT a hyper speedster, I don't think anyone is gonna argue this. Surtur has NEVER (to my knowledge) manipulated space/time. Surtur would be a STATUE to a PISLESS Runner.

Even if you believe RUnner couldn't harm Surtur, you MUST also admit Surtur would never TOUCH Runner.

Originally posted by Raisen
I brought up the Odin scan because Jake used Odin as a benchmark for Surtur. I only brought it up for that reason, even though it is A, B, C logic, I am not the one using that logic. However, I do want to see the scan. Can you produce it?

there is no direct/explicit scan of the type you're asking for, there is only narration describing the collateral effects of his battle, but it's the narrator speaking, not a character, so the hyperbolic argument is rendered moot unless you want to claim the author himself is lying....

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/134/odinseth030qo.jpg/

there is allusion to his battle with infinity (his other half) destroying galaxies as well.

but, like i said, this is all tangential and off-topic.

Originally posted by zopzop
Leo, you saw my Quasar scans right? But I'm sure you already knew of them being a fan of the Quasar series.

It's not just "can a Trans Tier guy with a sharp sword beat Surtur", it's "can Surtur even SEE/INTERACT with a PISLESS Runner"?

Surtur is NOT a hyper speedster, I don't think anyone is gonna argue this. Surtur has NEVER (to my knowledge) manipulated space/time. Surtur would be a STATUE to a PISLESS Runner.

Even if you believe RUnner couldn't harm Surtur, you MUST also admit Surtur would never TOUCH Runner.

yeah, that's not great though considering their absolute speed was light.....

it's also in character, as i said earlier, for runner to be arrogant. that's how mantis tripped him. it's also out of character for him to be dropping into that hyperspeed level that we saw him at in quasar, as he has always interacted with individuals in their normal frames of reference.

all that said--you're right, if all he wanted to do was evade surtur, he would be able to do it unless he got sloppy (a definite possibility) or if they were in an enclosed dome, which is the usual type of bf, unless otherwise stated, and surtur could bring into play an aoe.

open bf, runner could stalemate. closed, surtur would win eventually. runner has no way to actually win a match though.

Raisen, stop trolling. I've about had enough out of you.

Originally posted by Badabing
Raisen, stop trolling. I've about had enough out of you.

What am I doing that is trolling that the others are not?

Originally posted by leonidas
there is no direct/explicit scan of the type you're asking for, there is only narration describing the collateral effects of his battle, but it's the narrator speaking, not a character, so the hyperbolic argument is rendered moot unless you want to claim the author himself is lying....

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/134/odinseth030qo.jpg/

there is allusion to his battle with infinity (his other half) destroying galaxies as well.

but, like i said, this is all tangential and off-topic.

That scan and the wording is definitely open to debate, but I appreciate the effort you took to provide it.

Thank you

Originally posted by Raisen
What am I doing that is trolling that the others are not?

Baitiin

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Baitiin

Explain please. I really don't see it.

Leo, Galan and Jake are correct. Now please get back to the topic.

Originally posted by Badabing
Leo, Galan and Jake are correct. Now please get back to the topic.

So the majority who voted against Surtur are incorrect? The majority?

LOL. I didn't even vote against Surtur btw.