Originally posted by golem370
Surtur is a skyfather level being imo he is immortal as well as Runner but Runner is high herald and maybe mid trans with the sword. Surtur imo would own Runner and with the sword go literally destroy the galaxy they are fighting in if he couldn't tag runner
That actually is a valid option for Surtur. Where's Lord of Murder?
Even as recently in "Everything Burns", we see that Surtur possesses internal energies enough to wreck a universe. And Surtur's power routinely challenges that of Odin without Twilight and Odin is definitely a galaxy buster (assuming you don't want to take Surtur's threatening of destroying a galaxy at face value nor count that he destroyed a galaxy to forge the sword in the first place).
Basically, arguing that Runner could eventually win or stalemate Surtur is akin to arguing that Runner could do the same to Odin. Which is...yeah.
Adamantium sword or no, that's not going to happen.
Originally posted by Galan007
^ Jake, I believe it was, already mentioned the fact that Surtur is a confirmed galaxy-buster w/o the sword....Naturally that little tid-bit was ignored by a few people in this thread.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Even as recently in "Everything Burns", we see that Surtur possesses internal energies enough to wreck a universe. And Surtur's power routinely challenges that of Odin without Twilight and Odin is definitely a galaxy buster (assuming you don't want to take Surtur's threatening of destroying a galaxy at face value nor count that he destroyed a galaxy to forge the sword in the first place).Basically, arguing that Runner could eventually win or stalemate Surtur is akin to arguing that Runner could do the same to Odin. Which is...yeah.
Adamantium sword or no, that's not going to happen.
Like I said earlier, the Handbook entry for Surtur even states this (that in terms of raw power he's more or less Odin's equal but he can't utilize his power in the varied way Odin does).
Originally posted by zopzopHe wrecked a galaxy whilst forging his sword:
When did this happen. When did he wreck a galaxy sans his sword. Hell when did he wreck a galaxy period?Uhm Surtur may be the equal to Odin in terms of raw power but not in terms of versatility. Show me Surtur doing HALF the sh|t Odin has done with his power, then we'll talk.
Like I said earlier, the Handbook entry for Surtur even states this (that in terms of raw power he's more or less Odin's equal but he can't utilize his power in the varied way Odin does).
Originally posted by zopzop
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/6253/249391-surtur0016wreckinggalaxct1_super.jpgMerely by forging his sword, Surtur busted a galaxy.
Originally posted by zopzop
When did this happen. When did he wreck a galaxy sans his sword. Hell when did he wreck a galaxy period?Uhm Surtur may be the equal to Odin in terms of raw power but not in terms of versatility. Show me Surtur doing HALF the sh|t Odin has done with his power, then we'll talk.
Like I said earlier, the Handbook entry for Surtur even states this (that in terms of raw power he's more or less Odin's equal but he can't utilize his power in the varied way Odin does).
Handbooks are shite. I'll stick to on panel feats and the comics themselves over stats and summaries of powers and abilities.
And Odin, while being more versatile, is still too much for most people when he just blasts shit or punches. He wouldn't need to go exotic to curb Runner and neither would Surtur.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Handbooks are shite. I'll stick to on panel feats and the comics themselves over stats and summaries of powers and abilities.And Odin, while being more versatile, is still too much for most people when he just blasts shit or punches. He wouldn't need to go exotic to curb Runner and neither would Surtur.
Fact is, Surtur hasn't done half the sh|t with his power that Odin has. It's been shown on panel that hyper speedsters can move so fast that they view the rest of the universe as statues unless the beings they are interacting with are a) themselves hyper speedsters or b) can manipulate space/time.
I kindly provided the scans.
Surtur is NOT a hyper speedster. So that only leaves space/time manip powers for him. Show me him manipulating space/time like Odin has. Then we can move on from there.
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, that verbiage has always confused me. So please explain, dear zop, what is a galactic core exactly?
lol, I know how galactic cores are [loosely] defined in the real world. I was looking for a comic book explanation of what the core Surtur used was made of(don't feel like looking to see if it was referenced.)
Christ, for all we know it may have been composed of several billion stars/planets and thousands of black holes...
^From a real-life perspective, supermassive black holes are usually composed of millions of black holes, and in terms of sheer weight is nearly as heavy as billions of solar masses, so the feat looks very impressive on surface.
However, at the event horizon, its gravitational pull is much weaker than an ordinary black hole's.
At the end of the day, no matter which way we interpret this feat, whether impressive or dull by skyfather standards, Surtur is still a high-skyfather level character simply because of him being established as Odin's peer power-wise, along with the threat of universal destruction in "Everything Burns"(which Jake pointed out and which our resident flip-flopper conveniently ignored).
Originally posted by Galan007
He wrecked a galaxy whilst forging his sword:
for what it's worth, check out thor 349, last couple pages. that's where odin confirms it was a galaxy, as opposed to just a galactic core. but it's an old debate and you either take odin's word for it or you don't.
regardless, runner isn't beating surtur. if he did have a chance, it wouldn't have anything at all to do with him having a sword. runner>ss. does anyone actually think giving ss a sword, even an adamantium one, make him somehow MORE powerful...? 😕
the issue of speed is also an old one. just because surtur has not fought anyone as fast as runner, doesn't mean he couldn't find a way to hit him with some massive aoe attack. he also smashed thor once, while thor was darting around with his undefined 'lightning-like' speed....surtur is not slow, just really big. eventually runner would make a mistake and surtur would end him.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
At the end of the day, no matter which way we interpret this feat, whether impressive or dull by skyfather standards, Surtur is still a high-skyfather level character simply because of him being established as Odin's peer power-wise, along with the threat of universal destruction in "Everything Burns"(which Jake pointed out and which our resident flip-flopper conveniently ignored).
PIS/CIS off this is Runner with sword vs statue.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Even as recently in "Everything Burns", we see that Surtur possesses internal energies enough to wreck a universe. And Surtur's power routinely challenges that of Odin without Twilight and Odin is definitely a galaxy buster (assuming you don't want to take Surtur's threatening of destroying a galaxy at face value nor count that he destroyed a galaxy to forge the sword in the first place).Basically, arguing that Runner could eventually win or stalemate Surtur is akin to arguing that Runner could do the same to Odin. Which is...yeah.
Adamantium sword or no, that's not going to happen.
Why should we take the galaxy wrecking threat at face value? Aren't you the one that says it's feats that matter? His feat has confirmed he destroyed a galactic core, not a galaxy. Yet you want to twist words to conform to your Asgardian and anything Asgardian-related love.
Your Odin argument is faulty A, B, C logic.
Nothing has been confirmed or proven here. The Surtur supporters are basing everything off of speculation and hyperbole.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller👆
^From a real-life perspective, supermassive black holes are usually composed of millions of black holes, and in terms of sheer weight is nearly as heavy as billions of solar masses, so the feat looks very impressive on surface.However, at the event horizon, its gravitational pull is much weaker than an ordinary black hole's.
At the end of the day, no matter which way we interpret this feat, whether impressive or dull by skyfather standards, Surtur is still a high-skyfather level character simply because of him being established as Odin's peer power-wise, along with the threat of universal destruction in "Everything Burns"(which Jake pointed out and which our resident flip-flopper conveniently ignored).
Originally posted by leonidasThanks. I knew I had seen it confirmed that Surtur actually destroyed that galaxy, but couldn't remember where. Here it is, for anyone who is curious:
for what it's worth, check out thor 349, last couple pages. that's where odin confirms it was a galaxy, as opposed to just a galactic core. but it's an old debate and you either take odin's word for it or you don't.regardless, runner isn't beating surtur. if he did have a chance, it wouldn't have anything at all to do with him having a sword. runner>ss. does anyone actually think giving ss a sword, even an adamantium one, make him somehow MORE powerful...? 😕
the issue of speed is also an old one. just because surtur has not fought anyone as fast as runner, doesn't mean he couldn't find a way to hit him with some massive aoe attack. he also smashed thor once, while thor was darting around with his undefined 'lightning-like' speed....surtur is not slow, just really big. eventually runner would make a mistake and surtur would end him.
Which means that Surtur clearly wasn't boasting when he remarked that he wielded enough power to destroy a galaxy in one of his first appearances:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15817774/2.jpg.html
Aside from that, the part of the pro-Runner argumentation that I still can't wrap my head around is: Even IF they believe a non-magical adamantium sword is capable of piercing Surtur's hide, what type of lasting damage do they think it can possibly cause to a magical/mystical being composed of "living flame"? Is it going to make him uncontrollably bleed fire, or somesuch..? As the words "living flame" imply, Surtur is far more than a mere flesh&blood giant-- Odin flat-out stated that he is "more a force of nature, than a physical foe."
The above facts are likely why the only characters and/or items that have been shown capable of causing any harm to Surtur are magical/mystical in nature themselves. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007
👆Thanks. I knew I had seen it confirmed that Surtur actually destroyed that galaxy, but couldn't remember where. Here it is, for anyone who is curious:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15817772/1.jpg.html
"A galaxy [Surtur] destroyed..."Which means that Surtur clearly wasn't boasting when he remarked that he wielded enough power to destroy a galaxy in one of his first appearances:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15817774/2.jpg.htmlAside from that, the part of the pro-Runner argumentation that I still can't wrap my head around is: Even IF they believe a non-magical adamantium sword is capable of piercing Surtur's hide, what type of lasting damage do they think it can possibly cause to a magical/mystical being composed of "living flame"? Is it going to make him uncontrollably bleed fire, or somesuch..? As the words "living flame" imply, Surtur is far more than a mere flesh&blood giant-- Odin flat-out stated that he is "more a force of nature, than a physical foe."
The above facts are likely why the only characters and/or items that have been shown capable of causing any harm to Surtur are magical/mystical in nature themselves. /shrug
There's also a panel where Spiderman says Sentry fought Galactus to a stand still. You think that happened?
Originally posted by Galan007
👆Thanks. I knew I had seen it confirmed that Surtur actually destroyed that galaxy, but couldn't remember where. Here it is, for anyone who is curious:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15817772/1.jpg.html
"A galaxy [Surtur] destroyed..."Which means that Surtur clearly wasn't boasting when he remarked that he wielded enough power to destroy a galaxy in one of his first appearances:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15817774/2.jpg.htmlAside from that, the part of the pro-Runner argumentation that I still can't wrap my head around is: Even IF they believe a non-magical adamantium sword is capable of piercing Surtur's hide, what type of lasting damage do they think it can possibly cause to a magical/mystical being composed of "living flame"? Is it going to make him uncontrollably bleed fire, or somesuch..? As the words "living flame" imply, Surtur is far more than a mere flesh&blood giant-- Odin flat-out stated that he is "more a force of nature, than a physical foe."
The above facts are likely why the only characters and/or items that have been shown capable of causing any harm to Surtur are magical/mystical in nature themselves. /shrug
A) That was a retelling/summary by Odin. On panel we saw he destroyed a galactic core
B) That old ass scan of him boasting about "galaxy busting" power, he amassed all that energy just to destroy the Earth BY MELTING IT'S POLAR ICE CAPS. 😆
👇
Originally posted by zopzop
FAIL.A) That was a retelling/summary by Odin. On panel we saw he destroyed a galactic core
B) That old ass scan of him boasting about "galaxy busting" power, he amassed all that energy just to destroy the Earth BY MELTING IT'S POLAR ICE CAPS. 😆
👇
That's right. I'm interested in the logic that's going to explain that. This is going to get immensely complicated with nothing but hearsay, speculation, and hyperbole. When the posts start getting too long you know there's a lying and desperation at work.
