You admitted you were biased, Neph, but you never confessed to being a full on dishonest ****. They're worlds apart.
Why the hell would I, or anyone else in their right mind, for that matter, spend all this time arguing with you if we knew you were just going to deliberately twist and deceive to facilitate whatever agenda you happened to have at the time?
You cray, foo'.
Sidious, you seem to have missed out this part of my response:
Originally posted by Nephthys
Except for the box on his chest that regulates his life-support systems. :I This was specifically brought up in Rise of Darth Vader because Vaders style is partially built around protecting that box and its pretty damn vulnerable.No, just that its ****ing stupid.
One quote says that they were the 'most powerful' Jedi and the other says they were the 'strongest, most resolute' jedi.
No, I really can't see that.
I might be able to answer the rest tomorrow, but no promises. I am working.
Or maybe you didn't feel like it was worth responding to but anyway.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
And as far as I know, a force user can shield their entire body with a force aura when prepared for battle (I believe Luke mentioned something like that when he went to engage force sensitive stormtroopers in DE). And logically, the prophets would have put up a defense if they were expecting to defend themselves from an angry Vader.
I've no doubt that it can be used that way, but not always. See here:
Jedi Master Thon using a force barrier that resembles, well, a big glowing barrier. I've also seen it described as a 'shimmering wall' etc. Or as completely invisible. There seems to be much variation in the technique.
You admitted that Vader just questioned and threatened them. I don't see why they would have raised a defense at that point if aggressions weren't actually imminent. So far you haven't proven that they were even likely to have raised one or that it would have affected Sidious' attack.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Are you suggesting that since Sidious blasted Yoda's lightsaber out of his hands, that his lightning should have also blasted Yoda's arm off?And, no; absorbing lightning with your hands, if you're a master at it, would likely reduce some of the affects of lightning, as you are actually absorbing the lightning, not merely containing it as you would be with a saber.
I'm just pointing out that theres clearly still physical force applied in blocking it with your bare hands. And therefore the only real reason why Yoda couldn't keep hold of his lightsaber was that he was surprised. It makes no sense that he could accomplish the much harder task of blocking it with his hands (which is stated to be so difficult as to be 'nearly impossible'😉, but could perform the much easier task of blocking it with his lightsaber.
Thats the same thing. 😐 'Containing' it in a lightsaber blade is functionally the same as 'absorbing' it. In fact, its pretty much exactly the same. Hell, look at the Hope trailer and its obvious that absorbing something with your hands doesn't do shit to stop physical force, as there was so much applied to Malgus' lightsaber blade that it started to crack, and Satale was clearly straining to hold the blade back.
Furthermore, rewatch that fight in AotC. Dooku's lightning manages to force Yoda's arm back, yet Obi-Wan blocked it with his lightsaber with no strain at all. Despite the fact that according to you, Yoda is stronger than Obi-Wan. If anything I'd say that indicates that blocking it with a lightsaber reduces the force.
But of course, if you actually have some proof that it reduces the force as you say it does, show it.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
It [b]looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed?Obviously, Yoda didn't feel as if he could have continued containing Sidious lightning any further, otherwise he wouldn't have leaped away. I'd say that is the reason he did leaped away, especially seeing how moments later, Sidious managed to blast his saber right out of his hands.[/b]
Don't be ridiculous. Not only was Yoda in the much better position of having his lightsaber, but the text notes exactly why it looks like Sidious was doomed; Yoda was successfully pushing his lightning back. He even offers a cocky boast that Sidious and his apprentice will be destroyed. You really think he'd be smacktalking if he felt threatened by Sidious' lightning?
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
But you're right: that part didn't make it to the movie, however, the part where Sidious blasted Yoda's lightsaber right out of his hands did make it. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. And there's no way you can argue that Sidious lightning caught Yoda by surprise, and to even assume it, is rather silly for reasons I explained earlier in the thread.
Thats funny, since I'm not only saying it (what now???) but I seem to be defending my point rather effectively.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You're suggesting that it would be stupid of Yoda for underestimating Sidious lightning when the fate of the galaxy rests on this fight, but then you turn around and suggest that Yoda went their with absolutely no defense up, and wasn't expecting an attack from Sidious? Somehow, I think the latter makes Yoda look more stupid, and makes far less sense.If Yoda was so scared of the incoming attack as you claim, then logically he would have put up some kind of force barrier/force defense/shield. Hell, logically, he would have had his force defense up the moment he walked in the room to face a sith lord.
No, they're both just as stupid really. My theory* makes as much sense as yours does.
I also said that he was surprised by the incoming attack. He wasn't afraid until after the attack was launched, therefore your point holds no water. And if you're right that he wasn't taking Sidious seriously then that just means he wouldn't have his defenses up, would he?
Though really, all you can prove here is that Sidious overpowered a surprised and half-serious Yoda.
Well done.
* The term 'theory' here is important since we can neither prove nor disprove that he had a force barrier up. Since theres no actual evidence for or against it at all. This is all utter speculation. Really unless you can offer something good I'm inclined to dismiss the whole point.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You haven't debunked it though. You're wanted me to ignore the fact that Sidious' lightning overpowered Yoda's saber defense just because it doesn't make sense to you (which I'm not seeing how it wouldn't make sense you).
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
It's arguable, but my argument has more backing than yours.
Lol.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
If Palpatine can effortlessly reduce three dark prophets to charred bones with lightning, using only one hand (which suggests he wasn't giving it even half his best),
Actually if you look at the comic you can see that he keeps using his lightning on them for quite some while he talks to Vader. That would suggest effort on his part to reduce them to that state. By contrast it only takes an instant for Nyriss to be reduced to ash and barely longer for her offhand lightning to reduce soldiers to smoking husks.
Anyway, still not on Vitiates level as there's no indication of resistance. And even if there was, they're still complete unknowns in terms of power and nowhere near the 4 strongest Jedi in the galaxy that Vitiate actually overpowered. And btw, as LeGeND pointed out Vitiate did so 'easily.' (SWTORE, Page 92)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
kill Vader (when Vader has tanked SK's lightning, and has tanked powerful explosions),
Impressive.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Ko'd one of the most powerful jedi with a single blast,
Who was either surprised or half-serious. Woo.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
and has reduced a giant sith worm to ash,
Again, impressive. But not Vitiate impressive.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
then I'm almost certain that if Palpatine put as much effort in it as Vitiate did, and uses two attack, that Palpatine would also be capable of overpowering the jedi strike team
According to SWTORE, Vitiate defeated the Strike Team 'easily.' Do you still think Sidious could replicate that?
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
especially if he can blast Yoda's lightsaber right out of his hands, and nearly overpower Windu's saber defense while pretending to be weak,
The Yoda one is debatable (obviously), but the fact remains they were just single Jedi. Sidious was overpowering 1 Jedi each time. And he didn't even legitimately overpower either imo. But still. Vitiate defeated four of the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, at the same time, by overwhelming them all, easily.
Yeah, Sidious is good, but not that good.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
whereas Revan and HoT were more than capable of handling Vitiate's lightning with their sabers (HoT did so on a dark side nexus where a light siders powers are diminished, while a dark sider powers are greatly enhanced).
Proving only that Revan and the HoT are amazing at blocking lightning. Nothing more.
1/3
Originally posted by Nephthys
You shouldn't dismiss Legend so easily. He brings up good points and has access to more material on the subject than you do.
Spoiler:
Oh, I am sure he has a large amount of material to study and I already admitted I admire in some way his zealous devotion to KOTOR / TOR era, yet I have been here long enough to notice how his “methodology” and tactics unfold. I am not eager to be caught in that play only to be robbed of time and energy.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I haven't proven Vitiate possesses the most powerful Force Lightning in the mythos.
Indeed, you haven’t. 🙂
So far you have provide evidence that Vitiate has one of the most powerful Force Lightning in the mythos …. Good for him. the mythos. No one is actually disputing that.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Perhaps you should check that your eyeballs haven't crusted over with filth,
Originally posted by Nephthys
because I know that I have.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Different burst of energy. No-ones ever used that burst of energy to actually destroy anything and
Originally posted by Nephthys
its never been strong enough to do so.
Really, Neph, You do not know when to stop. You would do MUCH better if you just said that is seems that Vitiate used TK and not a burst of energy. Period.
So now, please prove why Paratus’s, Shaak Ti’s “dying bursts of energy were never strong enough to destroy anything. 😛
Originally posted by Nephthys
The temple wasn't destroyed by the energy, which I don't think Vitiate even had, but by telekinesis.
Moreover, the obvious question is then (as I have already pointed out), why didn’t Vitiate used that TK when his live was in immediate danger? Why wait until he was dying? Why not subdue HoT if he can do so?
In short, I am not inclined to believe Vitiate can do it in combat scenario, given that he never did use it in combat.
Originally posted by Nephthys
He did disintegrate T3.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Its also ridiculous. What, is it somehow easier to use TK while exhausted, cut in half and potentially having a pillar dropped on you? What possible reason would prevent him from using the same amount of power in the fight?
The point is not what is easier. The point is that this TK was not used in the array of his immediate powers when he faced HoT. Otherwise he wouldn’t have ended up cut in half in the first place.
Logically, when Dooku and Mace impale Vitiate, his dying TK is irrelevant. They win.
2/3
Originally posted by Nephthys
That is merely your opinion. And you offered nothing to back it up other than the ABC 'Windu beat Sidious' argument and some crap about Dooku being amped. Even when amped Dooku failed to beat a [b]wounded Yoda, you really think he's going to beat a guy who's wiped out entire Dark Councils? [/B]
Oh, and Vitiate wiped out the Dark Council in combat. Proof??
Originally posted by Nephthys
As Legend showed, there wasn't even a fight. Vitiate simply dominated them before they could do anything. And what about them being on the edge of falling to the darkside would make them easier to mentally dominate? It wouldn't.
Originally posted by Nephthys
He used his telepathy against Revan. He also made Scourge shit his pants with a mere brush of his mind:
Originally posted by Nephthys
You really think Windu and Dooku can fare better? If so I'd like to see some proof.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Funny that despite how Vitiate 'lacks speed, mobility and saber-skills' in all 3 of his fights he's been able to deal with people attemtping to rush him with lightsabers.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Or the HoT holds them both off for the, oh second or 2 it takes for Vitiate to mentally dominate them?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Even if they have to fight one on one, I think that Vitiate can overcome Windu, afterall he was seriously struggling against Sidious' lightning so Vitiates superior lightning should overwhelm him,
Originally posted by Nephthys
and that the HoT can likely defeat Dooku, or at least survive long enough for Vitiate to kill him.
3/3
Originally posted by Nephthys
I guess you didn't watch the whole video, because Tol Braga clearly says that he broke free from the Emperor's mental control. He's the only one who did so independently. Not even Revan could do it completely. As such he clearly has a strong mind, and this coupled with his immense power makes this a great feat.
Really, Neph, What Force/saber/speed feats Braga has to be compared to Force prodigies like, say Maul?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Did I forget to mention that Tol Braga once fought a Dark Council member for several days straight?
Originally posted by Nephthys
How silly of me.
Originally posted by Nephthys
That, and what I mentioned before clearly show that he is on Dooku and Windu's level, if not close to it at the least.
To sum up:
Sabers: Neither HoT nor Vitiate ever demonstrated saber prowess to battle Mace and Dooku. Here I have no doubt that Mace and Dooku take 10/10.
Force: HoT has yet to demonstrate Force feats that match Dooku’s or Mace’s showings. Vitiate’s best Force powers are his powerful FL, which Mace (Vaapad FTW) and possibly Dooku will be able to repel with their lightsabers and Vitiate’s mental domination that is not instant.
Vitiate neither has time to prepare a trap nor he faces emotionally conflicted opponents. His mind domination will most certainly fail. Mace and Dooku take 7/10
All-out: Mace and Dooku absolutely rape in sabers. Team 2’s best option is to use the Force from the get go but even then Mace and Dooku are powerful and skilled enough to negate any advantage of team 2 in that area (if there is any).
Not to mention that Dooku and Mace’s combat speed is beyond that demonstrated by team 2, they will simply run circles around HoT and Vitiate.
Mace and Dooku take 8/10.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Fixed.Indeed, you haven’t. 🙂
the most powerful Force Lightning in the mythos …. Good for him. the mythos. No one is actually disputing that. [/b]
So far you have provide evidence that Vitiate has [b]one of
If you have anything that can match overwhelming 4 of the strongest Jedi in the galaxy at the same time, easily, then I'd like to see it. Otherwise I consider my argument quite proven.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Perhaps you should make claims that you can actually back up?
You mean like I have throughout this entire thread? Yeah, I should really get on that.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Perhaps. Well, maybe they didn’t destroy anything because there was no palace/temple around IIRC.
You mean, other than the giant temple that Kazdan Paragus was in? 😐
And Shaak Ti was in the Saarlac, which amazingly wasn't destroyed either.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
See, This is when you go too far.Really, Neph, You do not know when to stop. You would do MUCH better if you just said that is seems that Vitiate used TK and not a burst of energy. Period.
I did say that.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
So now, please prove why Paratus’s, Shaak Ti’s “dying bursts of energy were [b] never strong enough to destroy anything. 😛[/b]
'Then a nimbus of glowing Force energy rose up from the Jedi's body and spread out around the apprentice. Sparkling, scintillating, it vanished with a silent rush into the walls of the junk structure.'
Nothing is destroyed when they die.
But I concede the point. Its highly possible they might have been powerful to destroy a dustmite or something.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Right. If the temple was destroyed, that is.Moreover, the obvious question is then (as I have already pointed out), why didn’t Vitiate used that TK when his live was in immediate danger? Why wait until he was dying? Why not subdue HoT if he can do so?
In short, I am not inclined to believe Vitiate can do it in combat scenario, given that he never did use it in combat.
Don't be retarded. Just because he didn't use it in the cutscene fight doesn't mean he can't do it in a fight. How many times am I going to have to point this out to you people: ITS A GAME! THE FIGHT HAPPENS IN GAMEPLAY! YOU DON'T SEE THE WHOLE FIGHT! What, can Nihilus now not use his TK in a fight because he didn't do it in a fight? Can Luke not use his because he's never manipulated a black hole in combat? Can Sidious only disintegrate something after its eaten him?
The HoT beat him and he couldn't subdue him because the HoT is better than him. Not because his TK only works when hes dying. You ever consider that the HoT, oh I don't know, blocked his TK? I know its a longshot, but give me a little leeway here. I think I might be on to something!
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Let’s not blow disintegration out of proportion, shall we? T3 is not a Force user, isn’t it? And we have seen far more impressive disintegration feats in SW.
T3 is still a droid, made out of metal and likely equipped with combat armor. Disintegrating him is more impressive than doing it to a human or unshielded force sensitive.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
And how exactly Vitiate ended cut in half? Yes… he lost a fight (and oh boy what a boring fight it was)
Whoopdi shit. Him losing only proves that the HoT is his superior.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
The point is not what is easier. The point is that this TK was not used in the array of his immediate powers when he faced HoT. Otherwise he wouldn’t have ended up cut in half in the first place.
Logically, when Dooku and Mace impale Vitiate, his dying TK is irrelevant. They win.
First of all, he did use TK on the HoT, but could do little more than push him/her back.
Secondly, that doesn't prove he can't use it. There is absolutely no reason why he can't use his TK in combat. Not one. You are being ridiculous.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
2/3Failing to kill Yoda is to be counted against Dooku? I submit to you that Yoda stalemated “the most powerful Sith Lord in history”, so being unable to beat him is hardly a shortcoming.
When Yoda has a lightsaber gash on his side and you're amped it's somewhat pathetic, yes.
Vitiate would have kicked his ass.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Oh, and Vitiate wiped out the Dark Council in combat. Proof??
I didn't say he did.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
The_Tempest already provide an interesting and very informative inquiry into it. To recap:
1) it was a trap
2) Jedi at the verge of turning to the DS are not in top mental shape. Anakin, anyone?
1) So?
2) Theres no evidence that they were suffering mentally. Revan at least hardly seemed to be affected given that he'd just defeated a superior force using tactics spoken of with awe. He was sound enough to command an entire army after all.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Used against Revan and failed….. you know, this time when he did not have time to orchestrate a trap. So the only time it counts.
Scourge is Vitiate;s b*tch, he didn’t even want to fight back.
It failed because Revan had a way of resisting. You can see from Scourge that the brush of Vitiates mind can be debilitating. Sure its full force would be even moreso. So why is it not even mentioned that Revan was affected in the same way? The most likely and indeed only, reason is that as Revan had previously mentioned he had developed a method of resisting him. We know that this cannot be the attack he used to interrupt Vitiate because a) its an attack, not a method of resistance and b) he teaches it to Meetra and Scourge who cannot use both sides of the Force like Revan can. The simplest and only deduction we can make from this is that Revan was not affected as Scourge was because he was using his own method of resistance. Dooku and Mace do not possess said method. Therefore they will suffer just as Scourge did.
Scourge didn't get a chance to fight back, nor is it mentioned if he even could. Nice job trying to write him off a mewling pussy though. Because when I think Sith Lord, I think pussy.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Yes, they will fare better.
The proof has been presented to you numerous times. Maybe you should follow your own advice and [Neph] Perhaps you should check that your eyeballs haven't crusted over with filth. [/Neph]
Objection! There has been no proof! Nothing has been shown to suggest they can resist it. Either show me something or concede the point. I'm not going to be patient with you forever.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Yet, these people are not Mace or Dooku tier when it comes to sabers. Dooku or Mace will murder HoT or Revan in sabers based on feats alone. And they will shove their lightsabers up Vitiate’s a$$ too. And do this painfully.
Oh my, they'll shove a lightsaber up someones ass 'painfully'. Oh shit, I thought they would do it super not painfully!
Their lightsaber prowess is irrelevent if they cannot close the distance and engage them with their sabers. Which as I'm telling you, they'll get no chance to do.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Why would they both engage HoT in the first place? Unless of course you really, really want to script a fight in order for team 2 to has a chance. But why should we.
2v2 normally breaks down into 2 x 1v1 and in either of these, Mace and Dooku take majority.
Because he'd be trying to stop them from getting to Vitiate. Obviously. 🙄
I'm not scripting, merely pointing out the easiest way for them to win. Its only.... not stupid that if you have an ability that can win the fight instantly, you'll protect the guy while he's using it and win the fight. A child would come up with that tactic. And its not as if the HoT doesn't know about it. Why would the HoT only engage one when they can win easily if s/he just Gandalfs it up for a few seconds?
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Nice, so you still push that “Vitiate ‘s superior lighting” …. Rivaling, yes. Superior? Not proved at all…..
Still, not that it matters because Vitiate is no Sidious speed–wise.. He will be cut down quickly.
Maybe if you actually offered an argument against his lightning being the best I wouldn't. As it stands you're doing nothing but preening like powdered dandy.
How will he be cut down quickly when Mace is dealing with his lightning?
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Based on what Force/saber/speed feats Hot can match Dooku?
They defeated a Sith Lord far superior to Dooku for one thing. They can easily handle Dooku's Force lightning as evidence by their handling of Vitiates superior lightning (or will you argue that Dooku's is better than Vitiates now too? 🙄). They can easily handle Dooku's TK attacks seeing as they handled Vitiates who is again superior to Dooku in that regard. They have good speedfeats in blitzing Sith (once when they surprised him/her from behind even). And lastly they'll just dominate Dookus mind. Since Dooku has no TP resistance to speak of, it will be a simple matter.
Whenever you get the chance is fine by me. No rush.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
3/3Not really, he broke from Emperor’s power’s so why does he fight HoT? Is he crazy?
No? He's simply become completely nihilistic. Again, watch the actual video. He explains quite clearly that he's just embraced the darkside because he believes that everything deserves to die. Or better yet, just read this codex entry.
As it says, he didn't need the Emperors dominance. He flat out fell to the darkside.
However, that doesn't diminish his feat of breaking free from the Emperors control. He clearly has an extraordinarily powerful mind. And yet the HoT is capable of dominating him. You've offered no rebuttal against the HoT dominating.... Dooku, because I don't like him, at the start of the fight and double-teaming Windu.
Going by how you're doing so far it looks like the HoT solos this thread. 🙂
Originally posted by axel_jovan
And big lol at Braga’s “immense powers”Really, Neph, What Force/saber/speed feats Braga has to be compared to Force prodigies like, say Maul?
Urgh, are you really going to ask me to repeat all his freaking feats every post? Just look back at everything I've written about him in this thread. Though really I only need one feat. That he could fight for several days indicates immense power reserves. He is obviously no weakling.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
OMG …. and? Was this council member as uber as Coleman Trebor? 😬
Given that he was able to fight for several days, I'm sure he was way more uberer. But as I've argued before, this is a false comparison. The Jedi Council doesn't require their members to be powerful warriors, and Trebor was elected in an era of peace. By contrast the Sith on the Dark Council are the best in the Empire bar the Emperors Wrath and its specifically noted that no weakling is elected. When they are, in the case of Darth Zhorrid, they are eliminated extremely swiftly. The very nature of the Sith requires that the top dogs be the most powerful ones, and this is supported by the feats from various members that we see. According to the codex 'Each is among the most powerful Sith in the galaxy'. That Sajar was elected to the Council during wartime also highly suggests he was powerful, as is his young age at the time.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
lol no
Cos fighting a Dark Council member of unspecified skill makes one at least Mace or Dooku level? Wait, no clearly it makes him RoT Bane level,… no, no. FotJ Luke level facepalm
For several days it does. Plus the fight he gave the HoT right before they defeated Vitiate. Even you admit that Vitiate is an immensely powerful Sith. That the HoT defeated him proves that they are also immensely powerful. Thus it is only logical that someone who can challenge the HoT would be a very powerful fighter indeed.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
To sum up:Sabers: Neither HoT nor Vitiate ever demonstrated saber prowess to battle Mace and Dooku. Here I have no doubt that Mace and Dooku take 10/10.
Force: HoT has yet to demonstrate Force feats that match Dooku’s or Mace’s showings. Vitiate’s best Force powers are his powerful FL, which Mace (Vaapad FTW) and possibly Dooku will be able to repel with their lightsabers and Vitiate’s mental domination that is [b]not
instant.
Vitiate neither has time to prepare a trap nor he faces emotionally conflicted opponents. His mind domination will most certainly fail. Mace and Dooku take 7/10All-out: Mace and Dooku absolutely rape in sabers. Team 2’s best option is to use the Force from the get go but even then Mace and Dooku are powerful and skilled enough to negate any advantage of team 2 in that area (if there is any).
Not to mention that Dooku and Mace’s combat speed is beyond that demonstrated by team 2, they will simply run circles around HoT and Vitiate.Mace and Dooku take 8/10. [/B]
This thread isn't divided into those groups.
Also team 2 would dominate in the Force. HoT can block anything thrown at them and Vitiate can easily dominate or overpower each of team 1.
Edit: I forgot to mention in the last post that the HoT defeated Lord Scourge, who has a killcount of Jedi and Sith in the thousands and is powerful enough to make even the Dark Council scared of him. An extremely impressive feat.
Edit 2: More proof of the Emperor's mental power.
'The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen. His corrupting influence is so complete that none can stand in his presence without succumbing to fear, anger and hatred. The Emperor can wither and ruin even the strongest Jedi's connection to the light side.
Jedi Master Tol Braga's strike team was not the first group to succumb to the Sith leader's oppressive influence. Hundreds of years ago, the Jedi Revan and Malak discovered Dromund Kaas and confronted the Emperor. They fell to the dark side and returned to Republic space as Sith Lords. Since then, dozens more Jedi have followed the same path into evil.'
Time to explain a bit about capabilities of HoT (Hero of Tython):
"You are immensely powerful." (Sith Emperor to HoT)
Defeated following noteworthy opponents in single combat:
01. Bengel Morr (Corrupted)
A powerful Jedi hero; survivor of Sacking of Coruscant event; defeated the battle-hardened Jedi Master Orgus Din in single combat.
02. Sith Lord Tarnis
Son of powerful Darth Angral; skilled swordsman (trained by the EXPERT swordsman Praven) with decent mastery of the Force.
04. Sith Lord Praven
EXPERT swordsman; superb warrior; defeated some of the greatest Jedi duelists in history.
05. Rakata entity (20,000 years old)
06. Darth Angral
One of the Empire's most celebrated warlords; very powerful in the Force; master swordsman; decent tactician; commander of Darth Malgus; slaughtered Orgus Din.
08. Emperor's Wrath
EXPERT swordsman; superb warrior; kill record of Sith and Jedi exceeding 1000.
09. Leehan Narez (Fallen)
One of the strongest Jedi of the Order
10. Warren Sedoru (Fallen)
One of the strongest Jedi of the Order; survived many near-death situations
11. Tol Braga (Fallen)
One of the strongest Jedi of the Order; defeated a Dark Councilar in single combat
12. Imperial Guard
Elite warriors
13. Voice of the Emperor
Avatar of the dark side; supremely powerful in the Force
------------
As per SWTORE, HoT handled impossible odds.
------------
HoT, by virtue of available evidence, is superior to both Dooku and Mace in skill and power. Probably in the league of Luke.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't. I've never seen that before. Where is it from?
The words at the top left corner of the screenshot page say Clone Wars Character Encyclopedia.
So probably Cloak of Deception.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I do question it however, since it seems to be saying that Eeth Koth and the Jedi Council are Jedi Knights, which duh, they are not.
Actually, they are. "Jedi Knights" has been used as a generic term to apply to members of the Jedi Order. Obi-Wan used it with Luke in his infamous description of the order in ANH, the official website describes Dooku as a "former Jedi Knight who left the order," etc.
It's time to concede that point and move on.
No, I'm going to say that its invalid because of that. And then point out that it doesn't specifically say the Jedi Council are the best warriors in the Order.
But if this is true, does it mean that Trebor still sucks, or is Jango just really good?
Also Dooku technically is a former Jedi Knight. Because he became a Jedi Master. awepeach
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, I'm going to say that its invalid because of that. And then point out that it doesn't specifically say the Jedi Council are the best warriors in the Order.
Concession accepted.
Originally posted by Nephthys
But if this is true, does it mean that Trebor still sucks, or is Jango just really good?
Or Trebor's good, so is Jango, and Jango was landed a great opportunity.