Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That scene is open to debate, imo.Galactus mentions he can give him "new power", but also states he'll "restore" him. Personally, I think he merely brought Surfer back to his peak power levels. Fraction's Defenders or Mighty Thor (the last time we saw him on a regular basis) certainly didn't seem to portray Surfer as being amped beyond his traditional levels.
I can see why people would consider it an explicit amp, though in the context of the stories. Just seems that after said stories, he wasn't any more significantly powerful than he had ever been, imho.
👆
it was definitely murky, but i lean towards his being 'restored' as well, as opposed to being granted new and greater power.
doesn't really explain how he's one shot by odin and takes T & A blasts, but it seems to have been borne out that he wasn't really amped--or not much at least. shrug maybe it was odin's magic that was the difference, or maybe T & A is just another in a long list of high feats for ss....?
Originally posted by ODG
I just told you how they did against their respective foes. Thanos didn't budge Odin. Thanos toppled DP Tyrant several times. Silver Surfer and Drax got casually one-shotted by Odin. A weakened Surfer, Gladiator and Beta Ray Bill weren't one-shotted by DP Tyrant. Prevaricating around that is rather fruitless.Pretty simple.
Nope not even close... and I responded exactly how they looked superior in great detail. Tyrant looked superior against both Thanos and Galactus. Plus if you wanna throw in heralds into the mix.. defeated a far far greater team of heralds than Odin did.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiI don't see how getting knocked to the ground and being toppled and screaming out in guttural pain makes DP Tyrant look better than Odin.... who wasn't. And had Odin some plot-device powers that allowed him to directly feed on Galactus' attacks, I'm sure Odin would have done better against Galactus. After all, Odin's direct attacks obviously did far more damage to Galactus than DP Tyrant's direct attacks, who had to resort to power drainage and technopathy. There's that too.
Nope not even close... and I responded exactly how they looked superior in great detail. Tyrant looked superior against both Thanos and Galactus. Plus if you wanna throw in heralds into the mix.. defeated a far far greater team of heralds than Odin did.
That Surfer, Beta Ray Bill and Gladiator are collectively a greater team than Surfer and Drax is an unextraordinary fact. As it stands, you're just completely ignoring that Odin casually one-shot Surfer and Drax when they individually attacked him... and DP Tyrant needed several shots to take down a weakened Surfer, Beta Ray Bill and Gladiator when they individually attacked him.
But it's obvious why you want to ignore that and obfuscate the simple consequences of accepting that fact.
Originally posted by h1a8
That doesn't make sense.
Odin can't one shot a Surfer capable of tanking blasts from beings more powerful than Odin.
Odin one shotting Surfer wasn't anything close to being one of Odin's high end feats.
Surfer enduring repeated attacks from T & A is definitely one of Surfer's high end feats.
If Odin really wanted Norrin incapacitated or worse in a single blast, it would happen if they both at their best.
Originally posted by ODG
I don't see how getting knocked to the ground and being toppled and screaming out in guttural pain makes DP Tyrant look better than Odin.... who wasn't. And had Odin some plot-device powers that allowed him to directly feed on Galactus' attacks, I'm sure Odin would have done better against Galactus. After all, Odin's direct attacks obviously did far more damage to Galactus than DP Tyrant's direct attacks, who had to resort to power drainage and technopathy. There's that too.That Surfer, Beta Ray Bill and Gladiator are collectively a greater team than Surfer and Drax is an unextraordinary fact. As it stands, you're just completely ignoring that Odin casually one-shot Surfer and Drax when they individually attacked him... and DP Tyrant needed several shots to take down a weakened Surfer, Beta Ray Bill and Gladiator when they individually attacked him.
But it's obvious why you want to ignore that and obfuscate the simple consequences of accepting that fact.
Incorrect, a PREPPED and AMPED Thanos was able to topple Tyrant a couple of times...Ya know a battle Thanos actually sought out. In stark contrast he didn't even go looking for a fight with Odin but was seeking his help. DIdn't prep.. didn't acquire any amp.. and yet never NOT ONCE did he even think about leaving nor admitting Odin was superior. Shit, besides being hurt some by Odin's last blast... was okay and ready for more. Against tyrant in a MUCH shorter period fo time and feelign Tyrant's power.. he admitted he would be killed if he stayed.. was bleeding and cut up and then left. Nnt sure how on God's green earth odin comes off as superior. Clearly, if you ask Thanos... he would say Tyrant, since ya know, he actually admitted Tyrant was his superior and left.
You're forgetting that Galactus CREATED Tyrant and KNOWS HIM inside and out. Galactus doesn't have that same intimate knowledge of Odin. Yet Tyratn still owed him. You also forget that Galactus backed down and was hesitant to even face Tyrant because of all the collateral damage that would be caused. He had ZERO reservations about fighting Odin at all. Shit, he didn't even think it was worthy enough to find a planet rich with nutrients like he did with Tyrant. He choose a planet devoid of life. Yet Galactus beats Odin.. shit Odin one shot himself against Galactus... Tyrant counters every move by Galactus who knows him inside and out and still wins. Shit surfer knew how big a threat Tyrant was to Galactus and is quoted as sayign he needs to hurry before they BOTH destroy eachother. He had zero reservations about Galactus fighting Odin. Point is, no matter how you think the fight went.. stupid.. pis.. whatever.. Tyrant was MADE in Galactus image to be his equal. So that results could've happened that way again and again or at least some of the time. Tyrant is THAT powerful.
Yeah you're right there is a huge gap here.. but it's the opposite of what you think oddly enough.
Speaking of the heralds... Tyrant took on a much stronger team and there is no way of getting around that. Sometimes battles are shown like they are 1 v 1 fights to better show how individuals are doing. Just because it was shown that way doesn't mean they were fighting stupid or the result would've been different. Plus you're forgetting that they had received most of their power back if I'm not mistaken. You're also forgetting surfer's mindset.. he was pissed and blood lusted via narration against Tyrant... His mindset wasn't even close to that against Odin. in fact, he was there for the same reason Thanos was.. which was for help.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Odin one shotting Surfer wasn't anything close to being one of Odin's high end feats.Surfer enduring repeated attacks from T & A is definitely one of Surfer's high end feats.
If Odin really wanted Norrin incapacitated or worse in a single blast, it would happen if they both at their best.
You're once against forgetting that Surfer was bloodlusted against Tyrant and was there to seek Odin's help when he met Odin. Do you try and hurt or incapacitate somebody you need help from? Odin one shot a semi trying Surfer.. Tyrant manhandled and laughed off a far greater team that was bloodlusted.
By the way.. I think it's perfectly reasonable for odin to have one shot surfer.. No big deal there imo
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiYou act like Thanos was caught with his pants down. And Thanos really had no choice with Odin. PG Thor was going to break free and kill them all and Thanos knew the only way to get Odin's help was to get his undivided attention. So stop trying to paint that fight as if Odin romped and stomped onto Thanos' doorstep while he was testing different kinds of purple eyeliner. Thanos engaged Odin, full-on. Asked for Surfer's help to do it, even.
Incorrect, a PREPPED and AMPED Thanos was able to topple Tyrant a couple of times...Ya know a battle Thanos actually sought out. In stark contrast he didn't even go looking for a fight with Odin but was seeking his help. DIdn't prep.. didn't acquire any amp.. and yet never NOT ONCE did he even think about leaving nor admitting Odin was superior.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiThanos managed to topple DP Tyrant, several times, elicited several gasps/grunts of pain. Thanos didn't budge Odin, even with Surfer's help. It's pretty obvious who looked superior: Odin. Well clearly, if you ask a Thanosi... someone with all the memories of Thanos, he would say, and did say Odin beat him. So there's that.
Shit, besides being hurt some by Odin's last blast... was okay and ready for more. Against tyrant in a MUCH shorter period fo time and feelign Tyrant's power.. he admitted he would be killed if he stayed.. was bleeding and cut up and then left. Nnt sure how on God's green earth odin comes off as superior. Clearly, if you ask Thanos... he would say Tyrant, since ya know, he actually admitted Tyrant was his superior and left.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiYou're forgetting that DP Tyrant owned Galactus the same way Doom owned him. Let me know if you're witless enough to suggest that Doom surpasses Odin because of power-yoink plot mechanics. You also forget that DP Tyrant admitted he should flee when Galactus confronted him and gave up a host of heralds. Yet when DP Tyrant directly attacked Galactus, he didn't do sh1t. And Odin did. Give Odin plot-device ability to amp off Galactus' attacks, he'd have done better. Feel free to pretend otherwise.
You're forgetting that Galactus CREATED Tyrant and KNOWS HIM inside and out. Galactus doesn't have that same intimate knowledge of Odin. Yet Tyratn still owed him. You also forget that Galactus backed down and was hesitant to even face Tyrant because of all the collateral damage that would be caused. He had ZERO reservations about fighting Odin at all. Shit, he didn't even think it was worthy enough to find a planet rich with nutrients like he did with Tyrant. He choose a planet devoid of life. Yet Galactus beats Odin.. shit Odin one shot himself against Galactus... Tyrant counters every move by Galactus who knows him inside and out and still wins.Yeah you're right there is a huge gap here.. but it's the opposite of what you think oddly enough.
Odin one-shot Surfer. DP Tyrant took several shots to put down a weakened Surfer. Somehow, you have the audacity to suggest that comparison is less favorable for Odin. Once you're reduced to the point of embracing clear absurdity, it's pretty clear you've got no room left to constructively discuss the issue. Which was obvious from the start.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You're once against forgetting that Surfer was bloodlusted against Tyrant and was there to seek Odin's help when he met Odin. Do you try and hurt or incapacitate somebody you need help from? Odin one shot a semi trying Surfer.. Tyrant manhandled and laughed off a far greater team that was bloodlusted.By the way.. I think it's perfectly reasonable for odin to have one shot surfer.. No big deal there imo
Odin was greatly holding back his power the entire time. Even though Starlin had Odin state something along the likes of that Thanos was the single most impressive opponent he fought in eons or that his power rivaled his own, clearly, giving Odin's vast amount of fights and feats prior to that incident (and even after it) we know that's not the case.
The fact of the matter is that, by all rights, a lesser portrayal of Odin was able to one shot Surfer and look superior to Thanos.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Odin one shotting Surfer wasn't anything close to being one of Odin's high end feats.Surfer enduring repeated attacks from T & A is definitely one of Surfer's high end feats.
If Odin really wanted Norrin incapacitated or worse in a single blast, it would happen if they both at their best.
Yes it is considering Surfer's feats against beings that are more powerful.
I disagree. If Surfer is operating at the same levels he shown against T and A then Odin CANNOT one shot him, based off the simple fact that T and A are more powerful than Odin.
The fact that Odin couldn't one shot Thanos proves that it was a low showing for Surfer. Thanos isn't to far above Surfer.
In conclusion, if both are at their best Odin will beat Surfer decisively but never through a one shot.
Originally posted by h1a8
Yes it is considering Surfer's feats against beings that are more powerful.I disagree. If Surfer is operating at the same levels he shown against T and A then Odin CANNOT one shot him based off the simple fact that T and A are more powerful than Odin.
The fact that Odin couldn't one shot Thanos proves that it was a low showing for Surfer. Thanos isn't to far above Surfer.
And were T and A at their best when they dealt with Surfer?
Thanos isn't too far above Surfer? What?
Originally posted by zopzopProof?
Odin also looked "superior" to Galactus since Thanos wasn't able to budge Odin at all yet sent Galactus flying and his armor damaged and smoldering.
Odin >>>>>> Galactus!
Oh wait..... [/B]
Based on his entire history of fights and feat?
Starlin having Odin say Thanos was the best opponent he's ever had for eons doesn't make it true. Mangog, Surtur, the Enchanters, etc. all of these guys have actually beaten up on Odin and have either killed him or brought him close to it. Thanos did not. That arc was Starlin making sure Odin > Thanos as to not be a complete fanboy for his pet, but still had him giving Thanos all the credit in the world, even if it's not entirely accurate.
People like to use that fight as a huge feat for Thanos, and it is impressive, but taking it at face value that Odin was going all out or that it's indicative of Odin's higher displays of power?
You'd have to ignore all of Odin's previous fights and feats to get to that conclusion.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Based on his entire history of fights and feat?Starlin having Odin say Thanos was the best opponent he's ever had for eons doesn't make it true. Mangog, Surtur, the Enchanters, etc. all of these guys have actually beaten up on Odin and have either killed him or brought him close to it. Thanos did not. That arc was Starlin making sure Odin > Thanos as to not be a complete fanboy for his pet, but still had him giving Thanos all the credit in the world, even if it's not entirely accurate.
People like to use that fight as a huge feat for Thanos, and it is impressive, but taking it at face value that Odin was going all out or that it's indicative of Odin's higher displays of power?
You'd have to ignore all of Odin's previous fights and feats to get to that conclusion.
Fact is, writers tend to do their own thing. Starlin put those words in Odin's mouth. I'll go with what Starlin wanted to portray.
Originally posted by zopzop
You know this how? You interviewed Starlin?Fact is, writers tend to do their own thing. Starlin put those words in Odin's mouth. I'll go with what Starlin wanted to portray.
I know Thanos wasn't the greatest opponent Odin has ever fought because Thanos didn't do shit to Odin. 😬
Guys like Surtur, Mangog? They have actually beaten Odin or even came close to killing him. Thanos didn't come anywhere close to that and Odin saying Thanos has power levels rivaling his own and giving him such a great fight doesn't change that. Statements are nice if they back up previous feats and don't contradict the history (in this case, overwhelming history) of characters involved.
And as far as Starlin goes, it's no secret he has a very high opinion of Thanos. Not enough so he'd beat Odin or even be a threat to him, but enough to make Odin (mistakenly) make a comment on his behalf.
Again, you'd have to throw out all of Odin's fights prior to his scuffle with Thanos to even begin to get to that conclusion that that statement was anything close to accurate.
Also I find it funny how you're accepting Starlin's words as the gospel in this thread, but ignore the words of Gaiman and other writers as it suits you.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I know Thanos wasn't the greatest opponent Odin has ever fought because Thanos didn't do shit to Odin. 😬Guys like Surtur, Mangog? They have actually beaten Odin or even came close to killing him. Thanos didn't come anywhere close to that and Odin saying Thanos has power levels rivaling his own and giving him such a great fight doesn't change that. Statements are nice if they back up previous feats and don't contradict the history (in this case, overwhelming history) of characters involved.
And as far as Starlin goes, it's no secret he has a very high opinion of Thanos. Not enough so he'd beat Odin or even be a threat to him, but enough to make Odin (mistakenly) make a comment on his behalf.
Again, you'd have to throw out all of Odin's fights prior to his scuffle with Thanos to even begin to get to that conclusion that that statement was anything close to accurate.
Also I find it funny how you're accepting Starlin's words as the gospel in this thread, but ignore the words of Gaiman and other writers as it suits you.
And why deflect and bring Gaiman into this thread? Fact is, Gaiman's Death/Luthor scene doesn't conflict with anything in the Captain Atom issue featuring the three aspects of Death. Any comment Gaiman made off panel has nothing to do with anything in a VS discussion.
So try again.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankHe's definitely been written more consistent and more durable since then
👆Yeah, I think he was "amped" in Annihilation, but after that, to me, he never seemed to be any more powerful than he's typically always been barring circumstances where his power is explicitly reduced or whatever.
Plus he was turning Namor-ish level people into atoms and turning into a big mouth monster.
He seems calmer and yet colder at the same time
Originally posted by zopzop
You have a problem with Odin's statements in that Blood and Thunder arc? Take it up with Starlin.And why deflect and bring Gaiman into this thread? Fact is, Gaiman's Death/Luthor scene doesn't conflict with anything in the Captain Atom issue featuring the three aspects of Death. Any comment Gaiman made off panel has no baring on anything in a VS discussion.
So try again.
Lol.
That statement is made false when you look at the fights Odin has had previously before encountering Thanos. Clearly so, in fact. Thanos didn't make Odin BFR Asgard out of fear that the universe was in peril. Thanos didn't make Odin contend against him across the universe in a fight that reignited suns. Thanos didn't force Odin to assume the guise of his brothers fused power form.
So why should I accept Starlin's portrayal of Odin as the gospel when clearly and unmistakably the feats contradict it multiple times?
I'm not talking about Gaiman's getting upset over Captain Atom. I'm talking about his "intent" behind the issue of Action Comics post Blackest Night with Death and Lex Luthor. How can you accept Starlin's word as the gospel (in spite of the history of feats showing us it's not true) but deny Gaiman's word (even though feats and portrayal have consistently shown that Death of the Endless is the superior face of Death)?