Nah Vader was holding Kanan at one point, but just threw him instead of stabbing him.
It's pretty clear he wanted them to escape.
Vader was a total bad ass in this episode. From easily Tking the Walkers off him, through soloing all the Rebel ships with just a Tie-Fighter, to being a Master strategist with every move.
He's truly amongst the elite top force users, as he was always meant to be.
Originally posted by Darth ThorI don't think so. He would have killed either without the other one getting involved. He probably figured the other rebels might escape but he clearly tried to kill both.
Nah Vader was holding Kanan at one point, but just threw him instead of stabbing him.It's pretty clear he wanted them to escape.
Vader was a total bad ass in this episode. From easily Tking the Walkers off him, through soloing all the Rebel ships with just a Tie-Fighter, to being a Master strategist with every move.
He's truly amongst the elite top force users, as he was always meant to be.
I don't think so. The rebels weren't powerful, well trained, or experienced compared to Vader. He also had aid and preparation with setting them up along with the resources of the empire.
He showed himself to be quite above the other points save kanan's gf.
I guess but that's what troubles me if he couldn't easily dispatch a child and his lackluster Jedi father figure in Kanan.
Originally posted by quanchi112I guess but that's what troubles me if he couldn't easily dispatch a child and his lackluster Jedi father figure in Kanan.
Again he was holding Kanan at one point, with Kanan's weapon deignited. He obviously could have stabbed him there and then. So either he was having fun, or he let them escape so he could chase down the other Rebels (it's already confirmed he let them escape the planet to chase down the rest of the Rebels, so that makes the most sense).
Either way, holding Kanan and Not stabbing him, Proves he wasn't going for the kill. And certainly not going all out.
Originally posted by Darth ThorHe tried to. They kept aiding each other. Vader also stabbed him in the fight. I suggest re watching it.
Again he was holding Kanan at one point, with Kanan's weapon deignited. He obviously could have stabbed him there and then. So either he was having fun, or he let them escape so he could chase down the other Rebels (it's already confirmed he let them escape the planet to chase down the rest of the Rebels, so that makes the most sense).Either way, holding Kanan and Not stabbing him, Proves he wasn't going for the kill. And certainly not going all out.
Vader wouldn't just have fun against these rebels. Take the character more seriously than some sith lord out for a stroll. They took these rebels seriously. I do agree Vader let them go off planet after they escaped due to his planning but we clearly see he tried to kill the two Jedi. Vader also stabbed Kanan. Nothing allludes to him having fun or screwing around. Vader would have killed Ezra if Kanan hadn't broke his concentration IMO.
Sith often give speeches or do something allowing the oppoonets to survive. Look at Palpatine cackling while Yoda is down and out. I could say he was holding back and obviously didn't want to kill him because he didn't strike at this moment but that's ridiculous and I won't lie to sell a point.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He tried to. They kept aiding each other. Vader also stabbed him in the fight. I suggest re watching it.
He cut him on the shoulder.
Vader was holding him helpless but decided to chuck him instead of stabbing him through the chest.
That proves Vader wasn't going for the kill.
Originally posted by Darth ThorSo he did cut him,
He cut him on the shoulder.Vader was holding him helpless but decided to chuck him instead of stabbing him through the chest.
That proves Vader wasn't going for the kill.
That happens all the time in a fight. We see Vader choke Obi in rots but that doesn't mean he wasn't trying to kill him. Vader also tried kicking Ezra. He didn't stop his attack until Kanan broke his concentration so claiming something you can't prove doesn't overlap the facts.
Vader was definitely above these two but I don't feel he was portrayed high enough over them based off their inexperience, training, and skill going up against a seasoned pro. Feel free to disagree.
Originally posted by quanchi112
So he did cut him,
Yep but he didn't go for the kill. His aim was to hurt them, break them down, and have them running in fear. Which is exactly what he did.
Everything in that episode happened exactly as Vader wanted it to apart from the very end when he got caught between the 2 Star Destroyer tractor beams.
Originally posted by quanchi112
That happens all the time in a fight.
Really please give me examples where that happens when someone's going for the kill.
Originally posted by quanchi112
We see Vader choke Obi in rots but that doesn't mean he wasn't trying to kill him.
Watch that scene again. Anakin didn't have his Lightsaber, so had no opportunity to kill Kenobi.
Vader holding Kanan, but not stabbing him, clearly proves he wasn't going all out on him. End of.
Originally posted by Darth ThorNo, you don't grasp Vader. He's full of hate and without mercy. He tried killing them both but was unsuccessful. We see that with Ezra and Kanan but them both jumping in to divert his focus from killing the one he was facing. Later when he piloted his ship did he not want them killed as he sensed his former apprentice.
Yep but he didn't go for the kill.Really please give me examples where that happens when someone's going for the kill.
Watch that scene again. Anakin didn't have his Lightsaber, so had no opportunity to kill Kenobi.
Vader holding Kanan, but not stabbing him, clearly proves he wasn't going all out on him. End of.
I already gave one. Palpatine had Yoda at his mercy and chose to cackle and not press his advantage. That doesn't mean he wasn't trying to kill Yoda.
We see he was trying to kill him though. That's my point. He tried his darnedest.
He was trying as evidenced by his attempt on Ezra here.
1:15-1:28 ish.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xaMvJhE4uis
Kanan attacked thus breaking his concentration and his attempt on the boy's life.
At 2:01 if Kanan doesn't defend himself Vader probably kills him. That's attempting to take his life which to me is rather obvious.
2:09 he stabs his shoulder and isn't done but the distraction of the blasts leaves him open to a force push from the both of them allowing them to escape the confrontation.
Oh good you found a video of it. My case is proven then for everyone to see (as usual)
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, you don't grasp Vader.
😂
Originally posted by quanchi112
He's full of hate and without mercy.
No kidding. That doesn't mean he doesn't strategically plan things. He's not a mindless brute like Sith Anakin was. This episode clearly showed how smart and calculated Vader is.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He tried killing them both but was unsuccessful.
Don't be idiotic. If he wanted them dead, they'd be dead, as clearly proven in that video.
Originally posted by quanchi112
We see that with Ezra and Kanan but them both jumping in to divert his focus from killing the one he was facing. Later when he piloted his ship did he not want them killed as he sensed his former apprentice.We see he was trying to kill him though. That's my point. He tried his darnedest.
He was trying as evidenced by his attempt on Ezra here.
1:15-1:28 ish.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xaMvJhE4uisKanan attacked thus breaking his concentration and his attempt on the boy's life.
At 2:01 if Kanan doesn't defend himself Vader probably kills him. That's attempting to take his life which to me is rather obvious.
2:09 he stabs his shoulder and isn't done but the distraction of the blasts leaves him open to a force push from the both of them allowing them to escape the confrontation.
Your speculation of the above scenes are all irrelevant since we clearly see at 1:01-1:03 that Vader can easily kill Kanan but CHOOSES not to.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I already gave one.
You gave a terrible example which is why you ignored my rebuttal. Anakin wasn't holding his Lightsaber, so couldn't stab Kenobi.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Palpatine had Yoda at his mercy and chose to cackle and not press his advantage. That doesn't mean he wasn't trying to kill Yoda.
Another bad example. Yoda was knocked out, so Palpatine thought he'd already won.
You can't give me an example like that, where someone is going for the kill, has their opponent disarmed holding them by the arms, has his Saber right there to stab him, but CHOOSES not to. It was Akin to the EBS Saber fight where Vader was not going for the Kill against Luke. He even chopped off Luke's Hand! Forget giving Kanan a cut on the shoulder, that's no where near as bad as chopping Luke's hand off. And yet he purposefully wasn't going for the kill with Luke, just like he purposefully didn't kill Kanan.
Ezra was a complete non-factor.
Originally posted by Darth ThorYou don't grasp how murderous or without mercy he is.
Oh good you found a video of it. My case is proven then for everyone to see (as usual)😂
No kidding. That doesn't mean he doesn't strategically plan things. He's not a mindless brute like Sith Anakin was. This episode clearly showed how smart and calculated Vader is.
Don't be idiotic. If he wanted them dead, they'd be dead, as clearly proven in that video.
Your speculation of the above scenes are all irrelevant since we clearly see at 1:01-1:03 that Vader can easily kill Kanan but CHOOSES not to.
You gave a terrible example which is why you ignored my rebuttal. Anakin wasn't holding his Lightsaber, so couldn't stab Kenobi.
Another bad example. Yoda was knocked out, so Palpatine thought he'd already won.
You can't give me an example like that, where someone is going for the kill, has their opponent disarmed holding them by the arms, has his Saber right there to stab him, but CHOOSES not to. It was Akin to the EBS Saber fight where Vader was not going for the Kill against Luke. He even chopped off Luke's Hand! Forget giving Kanan a cut on the shoulder, that's no where near as bad as chopping Luke's hand off. And yet he purposefully wasn't going for the kill with Luke, just like he purposefully didn't kill Kanan.
Ezra was a complete non-factor.
It does show how calculated he was but it also shows him attempt to kill two Jedi. Letting the other rebels escape in no way alters his plans. We clearly see him try to kill both.
False. We see strikes that would kill and either Ezra or Kanan buying enough time to escape with their lives. Why do you think Kanan says we are lucky to have survived. Vader wasn't there to play tag.
False. Any fight anyone can just say well if this guy did this instead of that kind of nonsense. In this fight we see attempted murder of both. I point it out. Your speculation isn't ever proven.
Anakin was choking him and trying to choke him to death. Guys get physical all the time and that doesn't detract what their intentions are. As I said Palpatine had ko'd Yoda yet didn't press his advantage so by your logic he didn't take him seriously.
Palpatine has the force so he can sense if he's alive or not. Not pressing his advantage against an opponent he tried to run from makes much how much sense ?
You also ignored the part where Vader tries to kill him with his saber but Kanan blocks it. Point proven. Vader said he didn't want to destroy Luke as he had plans for him. He wanted him to help overthrow the emperor. Vader had no plans for these two Jedi. Ezra was a distraction and he helped force push Vader into escaping. Vader clearly tried killing Ezra so there goes your he didn't try to kill them. That's undeniable. Kanan broke his concentration. Vader even says he's about to kill him.
Originally posted by quanchi112
You don't grasp how murderous or without mercy he is.
LMAO
Try addressing the main point that proves you wrong, instead of telling me what I supposedly get or don't get.
Originally posted by quanchi112
It does show how calculated he was but it also shows him attempt to kill two Jedi. Letting the other rebels escape in no way alters his plans. We clearly see him try to kill both.False. We see strikes that would kill and either Ezra or Kanan buying enough time to escape with their lives. Why do you think Kanan says we are lucky to have survived. Vader wasn't there to play tag.
No it shows what impression Vader wanted to give them.
Exactly Kanan admits himself they were LUCKY to survive. In other words he thinks his survival was just LUCK. So he knows himself that they weren't actually good enough to survive him if he wanted to kill them! So that proves my point, that either they did just get lucky to escape, or Vader allowed them to escape. But either way they were not good enough to escape him.
Originally posted by quanchi112
False. Any fight anyone can just say well if this guy did this instead of that kind of nonsense. In this fight we see attempted murder of both. I point it out. Your speculation isn't ever proven.
Nope it's not speculation at all. He had Kanan defeated with his weapon deiginted in a middle of a Saber Battle!
Vader would have killed him if that's what he wanted. It was clear as crystal. Look at 1:01-1:03 again. There's no arguing it.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Anakin was choking him and trying to choke him to death. Guys get physical all the time and that doesn't detract what their intentions are. As I said Palpatine had ko'd Yoda yet didn't press his advantage so by your logic he didn't take him seriously.Palpatine has the force so he can sense if he's alive or not. Not pressing his advantage against an opponent he tried to run from makes much how much sense ?
Anakin didn't kill Kenobi because he couldn't. He did everything he could but couldn't. Kenobi was resisting the choke and eventually kicked Anakin onto the ground. So completely irrelevant comparison to make.
I didn't say he thought Yoda was Dead! I said he thought he'd already won. That either Yoda was knocked out, or had no energy left to fight.
Either way you admit Palpatine was taking time to Mock Yoda and not ruthlessly going for the kill. So if that's your example then it just proves Vader was also purposefully mocking Kanan and not going for the kill. So either way you're wrong that Vader was just going for all out murder in that scene.
So there's no relevant example and no excuses for Vader not killing Kanan at 1:01-1:03. He simply CHOSE not to kill him. I.e. that wasn't his intention at this point.
Originally posted by quanchi112
You also ignored the part where Vader tries to kill him with his saber but Kanan blocks it. Point proven. Vader said he didn't want to destroy Luke as he had plans for him. He wanted him to help overthrow the emperor. Vader had no plans for these two Jedi. Ezra was a distraction and he helped force push Vader into escaping. Vader clearly tried killing Ezra so there goes your he didn't try to kill them. That's undeniable. Kanan broke his concentration. Vader even says he's about to kill him.
I've not ignored it. I've proven Vader was just portraying that he's out for the kill, so that Kanan thinks he was lucky to survive, so Vader can follow him to the other Rebels. If Vader wanted Kanan dead with that strike, then Kanan would be dead, as he clearly can't handle/block Vader full strength.
That's what you don't get about how calculating Vader is. But fact is if he wanted to kill Kanan there and then, he clearly would have at 1:01-1:03.
Of course Vader wasn't going to tell Kana and Ezra his intentions like he did to Luke LMAO. If he did then they wouldn't have lead him back to the Rebel Base! Use some common sense. Vader's final goal and plan was made very clear later in the episode. And 1:01-1:03 made it very clear Vader could have killed Kanan in that fight had he wanted.
So chances are he could have killed him much earlier on as well, and that the whole "fight" was a sham. One that was only intended to show Kanan what he was up against, and put the fear of GOD into him, so he runs back to the Rebels.
👆 Not to mention, if Vader was going all out that would mean he had trouble with Ezra and Kanan, which means that he'd have no chance against Ahsoka, who was much better than them even as a Padawan. Obviously, that is not going to happen, especially considering that the producers hold him in high regard, so either the fight is/will be inconsistent, or Vader was holding back.
Originally posted by Darth ThorI addressed every point while you continue to ignore his words and his actions in the fight.
LMAOTry addressing the main point that proves you wrong, instead of telling me what I supposedly get or don't get.
No it shows what impression Vader wanted to give them.
Exactly Kanan admits himself they were LUCKY to survive. In other words he thinks his survival was just LUCK. So he knows himself that they weren't actually good enough to survive him if he wanted to kill them! So that proves my point, that either they did just get lucky to escape, or Vader allowed them to escape. But either way they were not good enough to escape him.
Nope it's not speculation at all. He had Kanan defeated with his weapon deiginted in a middle of a Saber Battle!
Vader would have killed him if that's what he wanted. It was clear as crystal. Look at 1:01-1:03 again. There's no arguing it.
Anakin didn't kill Kenobi because he couldn't. He did everything he could but couldn't. Kenobi was resisting the choke and eventually kicked Anakin onto the ground. So completely irrelevant comparison to make.
I didn't say he thought Yoda was Dead! I said he thought he'd already won. That either Yoda was knocked out, or had no energy left to fight.
Either way you admit Palpatine was taking time to Mock Yoda and not ruthlessly going for the kill. So if that's your example then it just proves Vader was also purposefully mocking Kanan and not going for the kill. So either way you're wrong that Vader was just going for all out murder in that scene.
So there's no relevant example and no excuses for Vader not killing Kanan at 1:01-1:03. He simply CHOSE not to kill him. I.e. that wasn't his intention at this point.
I've not ignored it. I've proven Vader was just portraying that he's out for the kill, so that Kanan thinks he was lucky to survive, so Vader can follow him to the other Rebels. If Vader wanted Kanan dead with that strike, then Kanan would be dead, as he clearly can't handle/block Vader full strength.
That's what you don't get about how calculating Vader is. But fact is if he wanted to kill Kanan there and then, he clearly would have at 1:01-1:03.
Of course Vader wasn't going to tell Kana and Ezra his intentions like he did to Luke LMAO. If he did then they wouldn't have lead him back to the Rebel Base! Use some common sense. Vader's final goal and plan was made very clear later in the episode. And 1:01-1:03 made it very clear Vader could have killed Kanan in that fight had he wanted.
So chances are he could have killed him much earlier on as well, and that the whole "fight" was a sham. One that was only intended to show Kanan what he was up against, and put the fear of GOD into him, so he runs back to the Rebels.
They were lucky to survive because they were clearly outmatched by a superior opponent. No, he never once alludes to him sparing him. The circumstances and the distraction allowed for them to break Vader's concentration through the force push. So you aren't even sure of your own original stance. Vader was superior to them but I felt he should be much more so considering how the original Inquisitor dealt with them prior to the Inquisitor's death and Kanan's I have nothing else to lose mentality.
This happens all the time. Maul had Kenobi disarmed hanging on for dear life. Maul taunted him and wanted to kill him so based off your logic your claiming he wasn't really after Kenobi's life which is absurd.
False. Vader didn't kill them due to the circumstances of the fight but he tried which I highlighted. Your outright refusal to acknowledge his actions or his words here is your own problem. Speculation.
Same with Vader here. He tried but was unable and they luckily escaped with their lives. Anakin was also superior to Kenobi but was unable to beat him during their drawn out fight as well. No, his intentions were clear and you admit he tried to kill him anyway he could just like Vader tried to kill Ezra by way of his own light saber.
So that proves taking your time doesn't mean you are not trying to kill them as you falsely suggesting thus undermining your stance. You need to prove your claim not just keep suggesting it.
What does that have to do with Ezra's attempted to murder ? If he murders both Jedi what changes in his plans to follow after them by allowing the rest of the group to escape ?
No, just like Palpatine didn't kill Yoda when he was ko'd thus you undermined your own point acknowledging a lack of ruthlessness does not equate to mercy.
Without having anything to suggest he purposely let the two Jedi leave you can't get out of Vader's words and actions against Ezra.
Originally posted by Nargaroth
👆 Not to mention, if Vader was going all out that would mean he had trouble with Ezra and Kanan, which means that he'd have no chance against Ahsoka, who was much better than them even as a Padawan. Obviously, that is not going to happen, especially considering that the producers hold him in high regard, so either the fight is/will be inconsistent, or Vader was holding back.
Pretty sure Vader was holding back...this is the Death Star scene all over again. Vader was wanting to find the Rebel fleet, there was a tracking device on the shuttle the Ghost crew stole, Vader let them get away to find the Rebel fleet.
Like the DS scene from ANH, Luke and company were let go meaning not to kill them, so the Empire could find the hidden Rebel base.
People really need to watch for context, especially when it's spelled out right infront of them.