DC's Hierarchy of Power
Can you guys put the list in order. In no particular order:
Nekron
White Entity
Micheal
Lucifer
Parallax ZH
COIE Monitor
Spectre
Radiant
Death (and all forms)
Source
Presence
The Great Evil Beast
Swamp Thing
Decreator
Mandrakk
Superman W/ Cosmic Armor
Overmonitor/Primal Monitor
Ultimator
Kismet
The Word
The Voice
And I think that is enough, so please lets see what the forum thinks
Presence and source may be the same thing ( i can post scans to prove it) so i think they come out on top, this is how it goes:
Presence/Source/GEB
Overmonitor
Lucifer/Michael
COIE anti monitor
Mandrakk/thought robot
spectre/word/voice/radiant
death (you should also include all the endless for example dream is easily multiversal since he created a device that can create universes instantly)
ZHP
decreator/nekron
Kismet
i didn't include ultimator since he doesn't exist, he's fictional.
the scans that follow are from spectre volume 3 issue 58:
first we have jehovah (the presence) being called as "the one above all"
then the source is adressed as being the one above all several times:
ultimately when spectre seeks to know the nature of god he goes to the source who grants him the power of God/presence (indicating that they might be the same being otherwise the source wouldn't have the power to give spectre the power of the presence):
there you have it.
If someone requests to continue what happened with the spectre in the issue i'll post the rest, but for now, i posted only the relevant scans.
1. Overmonitor/Primal Monitor
2. The Voice, Presence, The Great Evil Beast (All the same, In original Spectre GA tales he called the Presence the Voice and the Word before the name Presence was given him - same in Hellblazer. There are also a couple of instances where the presence has stated he two was created and mentioned the primal monitor)
3. Source
4. Micheal, Lucifer
5. COIE Monitor ( I presume you meant anti monitor???)
6. Spectre, The Word, White Entity, Mandrak
7. Swamp Thing, Superman W/ Cosmic Armor
8. Parallax ZH
9. No idea of the order of the rest.
Also, you left a very important cosmic being, synnar, he created DC's multiverse (Dc now has several creation stories apparently)
there are more than just a few creation stories for DC. There's the whole fourth world Omnibus thing. Several themes played through spectre, Phantom Stranger, Deadman, and Doctor Fate stories. In once issue of the Inza Nelson Dr fate we see the Lords of Order talking about how their battle with the Lords of Chaos caused creation. This was supported by a Statement made by Phantom Stranger that the Presence created the Lords of Order and Chaos so that the balance achieved from the interplay of the two opposing forces would cause creation. In the Straus Fate run when the Lords of Order got Andrew Bennett to bring about Mahprahu ( something like that, well actually that word looks nothing like it but- basically the end of creation) we saw existence and then restart with an energy wave creating everything. This supported the Fourth World Omnibus that states the "god Wave" created the God's and the source. In Deadman we see references to Rama Kushna creating existence we also see Phantom Stranger State that Brand is a young spirit who has only seen part of the whole picture and that Rama is only only aspect of the Almighty.
Based on the various references as i see it
Primal Monitor = Writer (i.e One above all in Marvel)
Presence, GEB are aspects of the almighty- the omnipotent power within the DCU ( the Voice being just another name for the Presence and the one used prior to the name presence was coined)
Presence created the Word, Lucifer, Micheal, Spectre, the rest of the angels ( e.g. Phantom Stranger as per one of his four origins) and the Lords or Order and chaos.
The Battle between all the LOO and LOC caused the God wave ( in accordance with the Presence/Voices decree) which caused the Source that all other God's not listed to here get their power from.
Originally posted by beatboks
1. Overmonitor/Primal Monitor
2. The Voice, Presence, The Great Evil Beast (All the same, In original Spectre GA tales he called the Presence the Voice and the Word before the name Presence was given him - same in Hellblazer. There are also a couple of instances where the presence has stated he two was created and mentioned the primal monitor)
3. Source
4. Micheal, Lucifer
5. COIE Monitor ( I presume you meant anti monitor???)
6. Spectre, The Word, White Entity, Mandrak
7. Swamp Thing, Superman W/ Cosmic Armor
8. Parallax ZH
9. No idea of the order of the rest.there are more than just a few creation stories for DC. There's the whole fourth world Omnibus thing. Several themes played through spectre, Phantom Stranger, Deadman, and Doctor Fate stories. In once issue of the Inza Nelson Dr fate we see the Lords of Order talking about how their battle with the Lords of Chaos caused creation. This was supported by a Statement made by Phantom Stranger that the Presence created the Lords of Order and Chaos so that the balance achieved from the interplay of the two opposing forces would cause creation. In the Straus Fate run when the Lords of Order got Andrew Bennett to bring about Mahprahu ( something like that, well actually that word looks nothing like it but- basically the end of creation) we saw existence and then restart with an energy wave creating everything. This supported the Fourth World Omnibus that states the "god Wave" created the God's and the source. In Deadman we see references to Rama Kushna creating existence we also see Phantom Stranger State that Brand is a young spirit who has only seen part of the whole picture and that Rama is only only aspect of the Almighty.
Based on the various references as i see it
Primal Monitor = Writer (i.e One above all in Marvel)
Presence, GEB are aspects of the almighty- the omnipotent power within the DCU ( the Voice being just another name for the Presence and the one used prior to the name presence was coined)
Presence created the Word, Lucifer, Micheal, Spectre, the rest of the angels ( e.g. Phantom Stranger as per one of his four origins) and the Lords or Order and chaos.
The Battle between all the LOO and LOC caused the God wave ( in accordance with the Presence/Voices decree) which caused the Source that all other God's not listed to here get their power from.
there are plenty of universal creation stories, i was talking about multiversal creation stories, which are very rare.
however, thank you for the information, i knew about rama but i didn't know she was that uber, ill probably check it out.
here's the synnar creation story:
it's from Rann/thanagar holy war issue #6:
unfortunately, i have to disagree here, grant morrison stated in an interview that the over monitor is the white page on which comics are drawn, and thought of it as God (which indicates that it isn't the writers):
here's the link:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2009/02/03/inside-the-mind-of-grant-morrison?page=2
read morrison's 6th answer.
notice that he refers to it as God or the source,
seriously though, presence, the source, primal monitor and the supreme one (i just posted the scans) are all stated to be TOAA(s), so it's hard to say who's the top, but i choose to believe that it's the presence since he's the most frequently mentioned as being the true God.
Comic books' pseudo-secular take on Creation Myths, and approach at trying to resolve the simultaneous existence of different gods and pantheons and whatnot is pretty darn retarded imo.
Not to mention that to this day, I have never understood why the Hindu deities are usually depicted in parallel(and in Marvel's case inferior) to extinct pagans like Odin and Zeus. When, simply based on the fact that Hinduism is one of the 3 largest religions in the world, its supreme deities(Brahma/Vishnu/Shiva) should be depicted as peers to the Abrahamic God.
Originally posted by Golgo13
If it was God, why didn't it know the existence of the Multiverse?
it did know of the existence of the multiverse"
Superman Beyond issue #1:
it says that the monitor makes a concept to contain the flaw (which is the multiverse) it's just that the multiverse is utterly irrelevant (or infinitesimal) when compared to it.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Comic books' pseudo-secular take on Creation Myths, and approach at trying to resolve the simultaneous existence of different gods and pantheons and whatnot is pretty darn retarded imo.Not to mention that to this day, I have never understood why the Hindu deities are usually depicted in parallel(and in Marvel's case inferior) to extinct pagans like Odin and Zeus. When, simply based on the fact that Hinduism is one of the 3 largest religions in the world, its supreme deities(Brahma/Vishnu/Shiva) should be depicted as peers to the Abrahamic God.
i agree, hindu gods should be above other pantheons, however, in DC there are some impressive moments for them.
in the beginning of JLA #64 vishnu is sleeping and it is said if he wakes up he will signal the end of creation:
now comes the interesting scan:
Spectre volume 3 issue #0:
Michael demiurgos is revelead to be kali in hindu religion (i know it's ****ed up but it's comics):
so this may indicate that there is one race of gods but known by different names throughout the religions.
Originally posted by operator616
[B]i agree, hindu gods should be above other pantheons, however, in DC there are some impressive moments for them.
The Hindu god's did play a large part in the whole end of existence and rebirth in the Straus Fate run with Andrew Bennett. It was a Hindu temple and weapon needed to bring about the end. Nabu also referenced both the Hindu and Judo/Chrisian gods in his reference to the higher plan. Apparently his becoming mortal allowed him to see and become aware of things that most the LOO and LOC are closed to because of their narrow view and the need for them to act within certain previews. It opened his mind to the plans of the almighty and he served them ( part of that end involved him allowing himself to be destroyed and reborn as a new entity that he could usher in some new age of magic and purity or some such).