Starkiller and Mace Windu vs. Darth Sidious and Dooku

Originally posted by The Merchant
Sidious vs. Galen is an obvious outcome. Galen's most powerful attack didn't even singe his robes, while at the same time the lighting Sidious was using wasn't at full power. I think Sidious would probably kill Galen on the get go, leaving Mace alone with Dooku and Sidious, and he dies from that encounter. Sidious wasn't howling in pain, unless you mean the gameplay mechanics of the fight. Sidious in the comic straight up laughed his ass off when Galen hit him with a huge force lightning attack.

Yes, that same attack that also failed to kill Vader... Despite the fact that Vader is inferior to Starkiller. So clearly, surviving Starkiller's attack doesn't instantly make one superior. BTW, Sidious's robe is smoking after his encounter at least in the comic.

"The Sith lightning spread to engulf the two of them, fueled by both their desperations. The Emperor tipped back his head and howled in lascivious pain."

Oh look, Sidious howling in pain. And even more surprising his attack was fueled by his desperation. Huh.

With all this said I believe Sidous will beat Starkiller, but it won't be easy. And there is no ****ing way he is going to solo Starkiller and Windu.

Not sure the exact details about the second fight between Vader and Starkiller, all I know is that Starkiller adopted a defensive style which gave him an advantage. That quote, was it during the final moments of Starkiller before he blew up? If so, Sidious still shrugged most of he damage that outright killed Starkiller. And it was Starkiller using all of his power as well. And Windu was explained that Sidious threw the fight. Even so, Dooku is still in this, and he would beat Windu since Windu himself admitted Dooku can beat him.

Yes, it was during their lightning struggle right before. Regardless, Sidious was in "pain" and was "desperate". And while he did shrug of SK's attack, once again, so to did Vader. That alone does not make them superior.

As for Mace/Dooku, while Dooku may be Mace's superior without Vaapad, with Vaapad, Windu was able to match Sidious putting him ahead of Dooku. While I do tend to think Sidious threw the fight, in shear bladework Mace did beat Sidious as confirmed by Lucas himself stating that Windu "overpowered" Sidious.

Without hesitation, he stepped between Kota and the Emperor, taking the full brunt of the Sith lightning into his own body.

The pain was incredible, searing every nerve back to its individual cells, skewering each of them on white-hot needles. He had never before felt anything like this. He wanted to recoil from the source, to curl into a ball and let unconsciousness take the pain away, but somehow he stayed standing, seeing the world through a crackling blue light, and even took a step toward the Emperor.

Another staggering, painful step and the Emperor was within the apprentice's reach. With shaking fingers, he took the old man's bony shoulders in his hands and gripped them tight. The Sith lightning spread to engulf the two of them, fueled by both their desperations. The Emperor tipped back his head and howled in lascivious pain. Darkness threatened to envelop the apprentice's mind, but he clutched to consciousness with feverish will. He had to see this through. He had to.

"No!" the apprentice cried, dropping his defenses to strike one last time at the Imperials. Energy surged through him. He felt as though a star had blazed to life in his chest. Driven by concern for his friends rather than himself, he embraced the Force completely, utterly, and was rewarded with strength that made his efforts with the dark side look like those of a child. His nerves were on fire. Streamers of light radiated from his skin. His bones glowed like radiant lava.

The apprentice felt himself leaving his body again. Or was his body leaving him this time? He felt ripped apart by the energy that had flowed through him. Every cell was in shock; every fiber shook. The fire on his face possessed no heat at all. His limbs felt as distant as the farthest arms of the galaxy. He was amazed there was enough left of him to think at all.

Darth Vader struggled to his feet from the rubble, even more damaged than before. He reached out for support and found only his Master, scowling.

As for Mace, well, Sidious utterly ragdolled Maul and Opress. What has Mace done that puts him above Maul in terms of force powers? Pushed a AT-TE? Maul pulled an Eta-class shuttle. Crushed a tank with a door? Maul has collapsed cave ceilings. Destroyed droids with his force wave? Maul has ragdolled Kenobi.

Cool... Not sure what the point of all that was, but yeah thanks for posting the fight.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
As for Mace, well, Sidious utterly ragdolled Maul and Opress. What has Mace done that puts him above Maul in terms of force powers? Pushed a AT-TE? Maul pulled an Eta-class shuttle. Crushed a tank with a door? Maul has collapsed a cave ceilings. Destroyed droids with his force wave? Maul has ragdolled Kenobi.

Lucas saying Palpatine used "his powers to try and destroy Mace".

Also, this.

Look at the picture.

What, that Starkiller was no match... Yeah, where have I ever said that he, alone, would defeat Sidious?

Originally posted by ares834
Lucas saying Palpatine used "his powers to try and destroy Mace".

Originally posted by ares834
Also, this.

Originally posted by ares834
What, that Starkiller was no match... Yeah, where have I ever said that he, alone, would defeat Sidious?

No he won't. Sidious already failed to overpower Starkiller. And the novel confirms that he was desperate. That Starkiller didn't kill him with his final blast proves nothing. He was likely Force-exhausted at that point. As ares astutely pointed out, Vader wasn't damaged by the final blast either and we know that he's below Starkiller.

Sidious would still win, but hardly easily. And Mace would kicking his butt.

The fight goes Mace beats Sidious, Starkiller beats Dooku.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
With his lightning, yeah. And he would have, had he continued.

"Powers". In other words, Sidious used more than just lightning.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
His feats on Dantooine are largely inconsistent with his average showings. I'm not gonna take this into account.

👆

Anyway, I always felt that Sidious casually rag-dolling Maul and Opress was fairly inconsistent as well.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I never claimed that you did, but Starkiller will be defeated easily by Sidious.

Easily. Hmm. Despite the fact that in his previous fight against SK (who, BTW, had just defeated Vader and fought through the DS) had him howling in pain and desperate. Oh, and this is all happened when SK, apparently, "did not fight back".

Originally posted by ares834
"Power[b]s". In other words, Sidious used more than just lightning.
[/B]

I believe in the novel he attacks Mace with a Force Push which Mace blocks.

Originally posted by ares834
"Power[b]s". In other words, Sidious used more than just lightning. [/B]

He didn't.

Okay, well, this sequence always started out with Mace overpowering Palpatine, and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace, and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber.

It's fairly obvious from the movie and the part ''his rays'' that he used lightning.

Originally posted by ares834
👆

Anyway, I always felt that Sidious casually rag-dolling Maul and Opress was fairly inconsistent as well.

Besides, TCW isn't known for exaggerating powers.

Originally posted by ares834
Easily. Hmm. Despite the fact that in his previous fight against SK (who, BTW, had just defeated Vader and fought through the DS) had him howling in pain and desperate. Oh, and this is all happened when SK, apparently, "did not fight back".

Energy surged through him. He felt as though a star had blazed to life in his chest. Driven by concern for his friends rather than himself, he embraced the Force completely, utterly, and was rewarded with strength that made his efforts with the dark side look like those of a child. His nerves were on fire. Streamers of light radiated from his skin. His bones glowed like radiant lava.

Starkiller, with more strength than ever, wasn't a match for Sidious.

Also, in-game, doesn't Starkiller note that ''it's a trick'' or something?

Starkiller obliterates Dooku, Windu uses Vaapad to overcome Sidious. Worse case he holds him off long enough for it to become Starkiller and Windu vs Sdious and then it's really over.

The debate has been said for almost a decade now and I've yet to see any shred of proof that Sidious threw the fight.

Originally posted by Based
The debate has been said for almost a decade now and I've yet to see any shred of proof that Sidious threw the fight.

Aside from the fact that George Lucas said that Sidious pretended to be weak. The same moment where the novel explicitly says that Mace was about to eat saber. Yeah. Sidious>Mace.

As for this fight.

Why is everyone assuming it'll be Mace vs. Sidious and Dooku vs. Starkiller

Dooku vs. Mace will take centuries and it makes the most sense considering they've sparred before.

And as for Sidious vs. Starkiller...well. 😆
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNIU-9X5Eso

Direct yourselves to 2:50. While non-canon, I believe this is an accurate depiction of how a serious Sidious vs. Starkiller would go.

Starkiller vs. Dooku...would likely end in the counts demise, but not before Sidious makes Mace eat his lightsaber.

Its the logical choice. Starkiller knows he can't beat Sidious and Mace knows he and Dooku are about equal. Plus it makes sense for Mace to go after the strongest darksider due to Vapaad.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
And as for Sidious vs. Starkiller...well. 😆
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNIU-9X5Eso

Direct yourselves to 2:50. While non-canon, I believe this is an accurate depiction of how a serious Sidious vs. Starkiller would go.

Why would you believe that? SK has some insane feats and in his canon battle against Sidious, Sidious didn't casually defeat him.

Not sure why people give Starkiller the win over Dooku. Feat-wise, he blows Dooku out of the water (insane force barriers, disintegration of half a frigate), but he has never shown such power in combat. In reality, he should have been able to completely ragdoll all of his opponents, but such has never happened.

Dooku is a scholar, more experienced and refined, and a much, much better duelist. He takes Starkiller, definitely.

He ragdolled the second Jedi master in the novels.