Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Aside from the fact that George Lucas said that Sidious pretended to be weak.
And there's of course this somewhat famous quote regarding this, "one would have to be either Windu or Yoda to compete with Palpatine."
The same moment where the novel explicitly says that Mace was about to eat saber.
A quote would be nice.
Yeah. Sidious>Mace.
Again irrelevant. Yes Sidious would beat Mace a majority of times, the point was if Sidious threw the fight. He is not so far above Mace that he can control the outcome of a battle. There's no evidence that Sidious did not take the fight seriously in order to sway Anakin. That being the case, Sidious wouldn't have speed blitzed the first three masters he faced..
Originally posted by Based
You mean the blatantly obvious acting by Sidious to deceive Anakin? And then proceeded by Sidious throwing lightning showing that he wasn't in fact weak? Yes that's obvious. Unless Lucas explicitly said that Sidious was pretending to be weak [b]during the fight then this is irrelevant.
A quote would be nice.
'"You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going
thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade. "Take him. It's your destiny.'"
Skywalker echoed him faintly. "Destiny..."
"Help me! I can't hold on any longer!" The yellow glare from Palpatine's eyes spread outward through his flesh. His skin flowed like oil, as though the muscle beneath was burning away, as though even the bones of his skull were softening, were bending and bulging, deforming from the heat and pressure of his electric hatred. "He is killing me, Anakin—! Please, Anaaahhh—"
Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for me—"'
There's your quote.
Again irrelevant. Yes Sidious would beat Mace a majority of times, the point was if Sidious threw the fight. He is not so far above Mace that he can control the outcome of a battle. There's no evidence that Sidious did not take the fight seriously in order to sway Anakin. That being the case, Sidious wouldn't have speed blitzed the first three masters he faced..
Mace>Sidious (sabers)
Sidious>Mace (Force)
Sidious>Mace (all out)
That's essentially how it goes. Sidious was disarmed by Mace, but could have killed him with lightning if he so pleased, but elected not to to seduce Anakin to the Dark Side.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Its the logical choice. Starkiller knows he can't beat Sidious and Mace knows he and Dooku are about equal. Plus it makes sense for Mace to go after the strongest darksider due to Vapaad.
The logical choice for his team.
Sidious knows he can beat Starkiller and that his apprentice is equal to Mace. So why the hell would the side with the most powerful combatant choose to fight an opponent more likely to defeat him.
Sith may be battle hungry but they aren't idiots. And considering Sidious and Dooku are both far more intelligent than Starkiller and about as smart as Mace, it'd be child's play to goad Starkiller into attacking Sidious rather than Dooku.
The man who manipulated his entire life. vs. some old man he's never seen before. Hmmm.
Except that both of team 1 are powerful enough to force the matter and switch targets. If Starkiller started hitting Dooku he'd be extremely hard pressed to hold out until Sidious bailed him out. Whereas Windu and Starkiller can weather both of team 1's attacks and switch places. Dooku being the weak link is the deciding factor in this fight.
Except that at the end of the first book Marek achieved inner peace, shrugged off Vaders goading and Sidious' mental suggestions. He isn't as dupe anymore.
The man he knows he can't beat vs a guy who he can sense is less powerful than himself.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Except that both of team 1 are powerful enough to force the matter and switch targets. If Starkiller started hitting Dooku he'd be extremely hard pressed to hold out until Sidious bailed him out. Whereas Windu and Starkiller can weather both of team 1's attacks and switch places. Dooku being the weak link is the deciding factor in this fight.
Except for the fact that Dooku is not the weak link he is equal to Mace. Dooku and Sidious are apprentice and Master and are like to have far better teamwork than Windu and Starkiller.
Except that at the end of the first book Marek achieved inner peace, shrugged off Vaders goading [b]and Sidious' mental suggestions. He isn't as dupe anymore.
Just because he isn't a dupe does not mean he's a Dooku or Sidious.
The man he knows he can't beat vs a guy who he can sense is less powerful than himself.
First of all. Dooku and Sidious have force sense as well. If Starkiller is able to demolish Dooku as you suggest why the nuts would Sidious say.
"Go my apprentice and get shitstomped against someone I can defeat with moderate strain, while I fight someone who you know the ins and outs of their technique and who you have sparred with evenly for decades"
Sidious knows Starkiller very well ala Vader's reports, and Dooku knows Mace very well. It makes no sense to assume that Sidious the fastest combatant wouldn't go for a Starkiller blitz immediately while Dooku holds off Mace.
Also given what we've seen of 2 v 2 duels in the mythos it isn't as simple as one person fights one opponent and one fights the other. There's a ton of interweaving and cross combatting. Something Sidious and Dooku will excel in and Mace and Starkiller will not be as successful.
Unless I'm wrong, Sidious was feeling pain from his own lightning, not because of the force explosion Galen caused. That obviously would hurt him, it's basically a similar case with Windu vs. Sidious's Lightning, all Galen did was reflect it back. And Vader vs. Galen in their 2nd fight was, now I'm not so sure of this, but I heard was because Sidious was amp'ing Galen through the darkside. In the beginning thanks to the new techniques he learned Galen adopted a defensive stance against Vader, Vader started over-powering him through the force, Galen used the darkside which was being empowered through Sidious, and Vader himself was not interested in fighting Galen because of that. If it was like their first fight, Galen would have died. PROXY was the reason why he survived in the first place. Without Sidious, Galen would last longer, but Vader would ultimately kill him.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Even if one assumes Starkiller (somehow) is an equal to Dooku, Sidious still solos.
Well if you think Sidious solos against Mace and Starkiller together, then it's no wonder you think he wasn't fighting Maul and Opress properly.
Originally posted by Mizukage YodaMace>Sidious (sabers)
Sidious>Mace (Force)
Sidious>Mace (all out)
Actually I'd say Mace and Sidious were pretty even in Sabers. Just because Mace won that time, doesn't mean he'd take a majority.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
If you missed the point, it's that No Sidious certainly doesn't Solo Galen and Mace together. But if you really think he does then I can understand why you would think that he Must Have been holding back during his fight against the Maul brothers.
We can't logically conclude that the outcome of a singular contest between peers represents a general rule unless otherwise notified. There's a world of difference between an instance and a trend.
Mace and Sidious fought at parity; that Mace happened to win that particular fight with a precise kick to the face doesn't mean he'd win all or even most fights. The only observable significant difference between the two is in terms of Force mastery—an advantage that clearly and consistently rests with Sidious.