Khan Noonien Singh vs. Yoda

Started by XanatosForever201 pages

Originally posted by quanchi112
A push does less damage than a punch but a push doesn't ko people as effectively as a punch. Point proven.

Yoda knew both he and Obi could take out the small force assembled at the Jedi temple here. He has easy to track just not easy to hit. You have no evidence as to him avoiding laser fire due to stealth or evasiveness.

The Klingons also have ranged weapons unlike Yoda. The Klingons also had ships and were more numerous than Yoda. Yoda is limited to his laser sword against Khan. Huge disadvantage.

Khan can jump further than Yoda so there is that. Yoda is physically weak and has to account for laser guns. We don't ever see him jump anywhere near as often against an armed opponent.

Yes, he would considering he is fifty feet away and how Yoda tries to block while standing still as evidenced by the clip. 😂

In character for both Khan mows him down.

That actually has yet to be established, but as it is a moot point in the debate, I see no reason to make a rebuttal.

I am not sure what you are getting at, but it is a good example of Yoda being tactical. Again, if he were so easy to track, we would have seen much more blaster fire coming his way, regardless of Yoda's defense. Stealth is not a factor in the scene you are using as evidence because they were not attempting to be stealthy. Evasion still has a rather good showing, though.

Yoda's lack of a ranged weapon would be a disadvantage against a talented marksman, if you had put Yoda at a greater distance. You did not, however, and Yoda is well within range to strike Khan down within moments.

That is an interesting bit of information, but unless Khan decides he would rather save Yoda the trouble and just leap onto the lightsaber...actually, that would not help your argument, either. Yoda is rather frail, but the Force mitigates that to an impressive degree. His lightsaber also helps balance the scales there. Leaping, and otherwise avoiding projectile fire, is a basic tactic for Jedi along with deflection. Yoda will be trying to close the distance, and his jumping skills are a big advantage for him on this point. To make an old joke, "green midgets can jump."

No, he would not, as he would be leaping in to strike him before Khan can consider raising the weapon. 😐

In character for both, Khan will have no idea what to make of Yoda and lose his head as he tries to figure it out.

we've already been down this road. when you find the qoutes by george lucas confirming it as canon, he will tell you that it doesnt count any more because disney owns lucasfilm now.

"why" you ask?

Originally posted by The Scenario
So I'm a bit too busy to actively argue, but I feel I may still be able to contribute.

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p757/Scenario388/YodaForce1_zps85514241.gif?t=1380594706

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p757/Scenario388/YodaForce2_zps996b7326.gif?t=1380594709

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p757/Scenario388/YodaForce3_zps8ddead0d.gif?t=1380594708

So here's a series of .gifs ripped directly from the video that Sadako of Girth posted. I hope I got all of the portrayals that he intended.

I'm fairly certain quanchi's iPad can handle single .gifs as long as there aren't too many on one page, and I linked them in any case.

Does this render the evidence admissible?

Nice work, cheers..!

This is retarded.

First of all, Yoda doesn't have to deflect Khan's firepower, but he could if he wanted to. Yoda is fast enough to avoid those beams as he was fast enough to avoid sustained fire from Clones in Episode III when breaking into the heavily guarded Jedi Temple. Moreover, Yoda has the speed the disarm Khan before getting hit.

Second, Yoda suspended a falling pillar that weighed at least thousands of pounds moved it with a mere moments pause. He could easily get behind Khan, suspend him in the air, keeping him from turning round, and impale him with his lightsaber.

I mean, this is Jean Grey with a plasma sword vs. Khan. Quanchi, at what point are you going to realize that Khan can't beat the X-Men?

Wake up, your side of the argument is loosing 50 to 2. That's the most one-sided pole in MvC history if I'm not mistaken. smh.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Nice work, cheers..!

Is the Clone Wars cartoon series admissible in the threads? What was Imp's decision regarding that (I know it came up, before, and people were arguing about it).

If he said they can be used as "canon" feats, then that does change things for multiple threads.

it was settled long ago in the PT forum.

its canon simply on the grounds that george lucas called it canon. 'clone wars' was a prequel to ep3 as GL declared to everyone while ep3 was still in post production.

cry about it with your girlfriend.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Is the Clone Wars cartoon series admissible in the threads? What was Imp's decision regarding that (I know it came up, before, and people were arguing about it).

If he said they can be used as "canon" feats, then that does change things for multiple threads.

Its canon.

I disapprove of EU as much as anybody..but Im pretty much sure this was declared Canon by Lucas when it came out. Its legitimately part of the story.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
it was settled long ago in the PT forum.

its canon simply on the grounds that george lucas called it canon. 'clone wars' was a prequel to ep3 as GL declared to everyone while ep3 was still in post production.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Its canon.

I disapprove of EU as much as anybody..but Im pretty much sure this was declared Canon by Lucas when it came out. Its legitimately part of the story.

Where is this quote where GL declared it canon?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
cry about it with your girlfriend.

Not sure why my question would rustle your jimmies but lemme fill you in on why I asked the question:

I argued it should be able to be used as a canon source for vs. threads. This was waaay back in the day. 2009? 2010?

So, in this case, you'd would be my girlfriend and we would both be sharing tears of joy.

You can find it. Do your own donkey work. T'was common knowledge.

From what I understand of the time, it was announced as C Canon, one rank below primary G Canon in the Holocron. Admissable as legitimate evidence besides direct conflicts with the movies & the movie novelisations.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
You can find it. Do your own donkey work. T'was common knowledge.

I looked, already, many many times (are you forgetting that I argued for it being canon in the MvF?): it's not G-Canon, officially. It is C-Canon.

However, the statement you are talking about would make it functionally G-Canon, for all intents and purposes.

Hint: I cannot find a statement that validates what you are focus are stating.

"G-canon is absolute canon; the movies (their most recent release), the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays, and any statements by George Lucas himself. G-canon overrides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction. Within G-canon, many fans follow an unofficial progression of canonicity where the movies are the highest canon, followed by the scripts, the novelizations, and then the radio plays".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon

"I haven’t limited myself with what stories I’ve wanted to tell; This is Star Wars, and I don’t make a distinction between [Clone Wars] and the films,"

http://www.scifinow.co.uk/interviews/17871/george-lucas-and-dave-filoni-talk-star-wars-the-clone-wars-2/

Originally posted by focus4chumps
"G-canon is absolute canon; the movies (their most recent release), the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays, [b]and any statements by George Lucas himself. G-canon overrides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction. Within G-canon, many fans follow an unofficial progression of canonicity where the movies are the highest canon, followed by the scripts, the novelizations, and then the radio plays".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon

"I haven’t limited myself with what stories I’ve wanted to tell; This is Star Wars, and I don’t make a distinction between [Clone Wars] and the films,"

http://www.scifinow.co.uk/interviews/17871/george-lucas-and-dave-filoni-talk-star-wars-the-clone-wars-2/ [/B]

"George Lucas and Dave Filoni talk Star Wars: The Clone Wars
by James Hoare, 14 October 2011"

http://www.scifinow.co.uk/interviews/17871/george-lucas-and-dave-filoni-talk-star-wars-the-clone-wars-2/

"Star Wars: Clone Wars" (2003) More at IMDbPro »TV series 2003-2005"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361243/combined

"Star Wars: The Clone Wars(2008– ) "

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0458290/

Originally posted by The Scenario
http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p757/Scenario388/YodaForce1_zps85514241.gif?t=1380594706

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p757/Scenario388/YodaForce2_zps996b7326.gif?t=1380594709

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p757/Scenario388/YodaForce3_zps8ddead0d.gif?t=1380594708

the same applies to the cartoon, which (like clone wars) he produced himself. you cant lump that with EU (unless you want to be an evasive clown which you will now proceed to do...)

Originally posted by focus4chumps
the same applies to the cartoon, which (like clone wars) he produced himself. you cant lump that with EU (unless you want to be an evasive clown which you will now proceed to do...)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Where is this quote where GL declared it canon?

deductive reasoning. clown.

Your logic:
Clone Wars CGI series is G-Canon because GL said he doesn't, "make a distinction between [Clone Wars(2008 CGI series)] and the films."

So, by that premises, that means the 2003 animated cartoon "The Clone Wars" is G-Canon, too?

There was a "ruling" by a moderator in the KMC Star Wars forums regarding the cartoon, "The Clone Wars":

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Moved.

No, the Clone Wars is not canon, because George Lucas didn't write it; that's pretty much the rule for it to be up there at the top.

Clone Wars is EU and therefore not direct canon. EU can fit 100% in with the movies in every way, but that doesn't make it canon. That's not what canon is.

Also, Clone Wars (2008) is T-canon, not C-canon as I incorrectly stated, earlier.

So here is what we are left with: your logic that is applying a statement George Lucas made regarding Clone Wars (2008) is being applied to The Clone Wars (2003) series, as well.

Your logic is malformed. Deductive reasoning does not cut it, in this case. In discrete math logic, you have made a non sequitur logical fallacy.

Your premises do not support your conclusion. This is regardless of whether or not your conclusion is actually true. Everything about your conclusion appeals to me because it allows me to win some very old MvF arguments if you and Sadako are correct. But, thus far, the necessary premises has not been presented so we cannot safely and logically conclude that The Clone Wars (2003) cartoon is G-canon. It is labeled as T-canon, actually. You KNOW how rabid the Star Wars people get about feats and canonicity on KMC. If I start peddling your logic regarding the 2003 series, I wouldn't get very far.

However, the out on this issue is whether or not Impediment will allow T-canon level feats in the MvF. We can always ask him: he’s an active mod. Ushgarak's statement/ruling on this does not necessary apply, globally, in all KMC forums.

Edit - insults might be a bad idea because Ushgarak might visit this thread to provide clarification. I've been on the receiving end: Ushgarak does not appear to like name-calling.

Got a reply, all ready, from Imp. To sum up (regarding the two Clone Wars shows): "Have at it."

I think I'll go revisit those threads. Get ready for a Bon Jovi revival.

when you've had your fill of backseat modding, tell me more about how to not offend ush. 🙂

here is what ush said (in this very forum, no less).

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=11577090

the date of that decision was before GL announced that it IS canon.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I've been asked to give my opinion on the canon status of The Clone Wars movie- afraid I am not going to be much help though.

Star Wars canon is an irritating area that has even subject to many stated contradictions over time. We run a canon policy in the SW areas that wer believe is the best interpretation of the available comments on the issue, most noticably from GL himself (who talked plainly about the parallel nature of the EU) but also from the likes of Steve Sansweet, head of fan relations, who fairly much made it clear that Boba Fett was dead in the films but alive in the EU, again making the clear separation.

Once you've got that separation, you then have to identify what is 'canon' (meaning, really, canon to the films) and what is EU (which of course has its own canon, which even includes the films but also has a lot else). This causes some confusion as some people get the idea that a synonym for EU is 'non-canon'. This is not true, it just so happens that EU is non-canon to the films in this paritcular case (unlike, say, the Matrix, whose EU equivalents are very much part of the actual storyline). It is also worth noting that EU material is official and produced specifically as part of the EU, and so you can have stuff that is a. not EU and b. also not canon (like the website, for example). It is also very important to notice that the EU only includes stuff set IN the SW universe but not actually based off anything GL did- so the novels of the films, whilst not fully canon, are NOT EU at all.

Anyway- long story short... no-one knows about the movie. It's difficult to even class it as EU as it is not following the same production structure as EU material in order to make it so; it seems reasonable to call it EU but that's not an absolute. Comment on its canon status from any official source is nowhere to be found. Certain elements of GL's involvement with the production can give a certain weight to saying these films are much more canon than any EU novel. But it is also reasomable to point out that if they had been comic books rather than on-screen there would be no debate about them being non-canon, so what's magic about being animated?

So I am afraid we're currently only able to offer a 'wait and see, but be careful' policy on TCW canon. I recommend caution, but if anyone is certain they are canon or non-canon I cannot literally prove them wrong.

---

Meanwhile, to clarify, as far as we operate things in the SW areas around here is concerned the statement "The EU is canon unless conteradicted" is not true. That is a statement that we would say is true of the novels of the films- that what they say is canon unless expressly contradicted. The EU is different- due to its parallel universe nature, none of what it says is canon whether it contradicts the movies or not. It's just all in a different setting.

If what the EU says DOES contradict the movies, then that is rejected even from the EU's own canon, as the EU recognises the films as the highest canon within its own continuity.

It is also important to note that the whole G-canon C-canon etc. thing is a continuity structure for the EU only. And just because GL CAN override EU plots he takes a dislike to, it absolutely in no way at all means that he canon-sanctions everything that stays. He has directly said that he doesn't involve himself in that parallel universe.

EDIT: Also... I don't think Anakin is still a Padawan by the time of the TCW movie, so no bad on him having a Padawan himself.

seems to say that while its not a fact that GL's decisions rendered TCW canon, its still a valid opinion that it is canon".

this post of course was regarding TCW film, which followed the same criteria of not having been written by george lucas.

also, cute how you cherry-picked that quote since it long preceded GL's announcement. clown