Originally posted by Nephthys
Funny how despite having no feats she could land a blow on Bane and duel evenly with Set Harth. Hell, Set describes Cognus as being 'faster than any opponent he had ever faced.' And this is [b]after he'd already fought Zannah. Sure its likely not true since she could barely see Zannah's blade in the last duel, but to call her featless is laughable. That she's faster than Set is notable given the descriptions of his speed Legend just posted. His lightsaber 'materialised' in his hand and attacked 'faster than thought.' As I recall you trumpeted the same quote for Luke in the Scourge vs Luke thread. [/B]
Originally posted by Nephthys
She also dodged Bane's lightning which is pretty ****ing impressive. I've not seen many people flat out dodge lightning. I don't think she had precognition or anything so it must have been pure reflexes and speed.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Bullshit. The text specifically notes that he's weaker because of the sedatives. It does not say anything about the nexus, or even if it is a nexus. Even if it was one, you've not shown that he was actually accessing it.Also 'pain wearing away' means 'pains still there.'
Originally posted by Nephthys
He was and it was her perspective so it doesn't matter whether it makes sense to you. The fact that she was able to apparently still able to block his attacks speaks of her incredible defense.Non-canon.
---
Rest later.
On the issue of Cognus; She does have remarkable precog. All Iktochi do, in fact. Some weird thing with their race. It is combat applicable, yes.
On the subject of dueling Bane..... Half of it was because he was slower than usual because being around Cognus before her training interfered with your connection to the Force. It happened to Harth as well.
Tbh, she is what is expected from a Force-sensitive. Higher up for them, but not out of it. The reason she can take on Jedi/Sith is because of her little interference field.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Theres no reason to believe that it doesn't need to either.Other than because you want to I suppose.
We have reason to believe that an area strong[er] with the Force would naturally enhance a Force user when he or she draws on the Force in that area.
You only want to count them so it makes Bane and your favorite characters look l33t, but no one cares.
Originally posted by Nephthys
His feat of moving so fast that he appears to wield a dozen lightsabers to Zannah is enough to put him about their speed and he's faster than he was then in DOE. Against the strike team he would have blitzed them were it not for the Battle Meditation (which increased their speed while lowering his). In DoE his rain feat is above anything they've done.
Maul has moved so fast that, should he be recorded, one would have to see the tape in slow-motion before they'd be able to see him. He's faster than Jinn who can move his blade so fast it expands into a shield, he can kill six Sandpeople in an eyeblink, produce a web of light out of his blade etc.
Anakin has fought so fast that Dooku only saw afterimages of his blade. Dooku is faster than Obi-Wan who is faster than Jinn who can move his blade so fast it expands into a shield.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Maul was exhausted and wounded.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The darkside of Ambria was noted to be 'buried for centuries' before Zannah called on it. Its hardly a common nexus we could say was actively amping them. Besides which, I still say that theres nothing indicating combatants automatically amp when on a nexus.
Originally posted by Nephthys
In short Cognus, despite being notably fast and with their powers possibly blunted, could barely see their movements. You're contrasting this with a weak, injured, famished Maul not being able to track Sidious' speed in a dark cave. And your conclusion here is that Bane and Maul are equally fast?
Also, don't get your last point.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It heavily suggests that. Unless he wasn't using his full speed when he went berserk on her which is extremely unlikely. She also witnessed him fighting the Jedi Strike Team, again in which he had no reason to hold back. Theres every reason to believe that she witnessed and knew his true speed in RoT, that she's amazed at his speed in DoE almost conclusively proves that he's faster than he was then.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The majority of this is hyperbole. Having afterimages in a comic isn't exactly conclusive. Its common artistic trick to denote movement and doesn't necessarily indicate extreme speed or afterimages. Even then, this is less impressive than Kas'im imo, as a comic has no sense of perspective whereas Kas'im was noted to be creating afterimages from Bane's point of view.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Not really.
Also, that Stover wrote it so Yoda could fight Sidious and actually see his movements puts him above Mace and Anakin in speed. Mace landed six hits on Vastor before he could even move and Anakin looked to produce afterimages from Dooku's point of view.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Why would it matter if it was in a training session. If anything he's move faster in real combat since its more important and his life depends on being as fast as possible. Also, you don't know that he didn't. Just because the text doesn't note that he's moving that fast or give him a speed feat on par with that, doesn't mean that he wasn't still being that fast. You're just assuming what you want to.
Maul throws over thousands of slashes and lunges in his training sessions in extremely short time as his basic training, but I very much doubt that he threw over thousands of slashes in his fight in TPM, don't you?
Originally posted by Nephthys
You've constantly derided Bane for being unable to outspeed her while ignoring that she's got greater Force potential than him and is an extremely swift Sith Lord with impecable defensive abilities.
Originally posted by Nephthys
His lightning can still incinerate opponents, he can still disintegrate metal and melt it with his powers and he's noted as being faster. Losing the orbalisks means losing the boost of power they gave him, but improved actualization of his power and increased Force Mastery should make this negligible or non-existent.
The entire excerpt of their excursion on Dromund Kaas indicates that they feel emanations from the nexus whenever they draw on the Force. Even passively. Luke mentions the Sith are being reinforced by its energy during the battle and they experience weakness without choosing to.
Occam's Razor dictates that the simplest explanation be our starting point. A nexus is simply a localization of Force energy. Ergo, when one draws on the Force in such an area it stands to reason that Force user's abilities are heightened. Your insistence that the dark side in a dark side nexus must be tapped into with effort by a dark sider has no basis when it's effects are noted as involuntary otherwise.
That there is any reason at all to believe the feats were performed with aid from a nexus is reason enough to disqualify them.
Exceptions can't be made simply because you like Bane.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes yes, I know all of this. I was making the point that those feats you mentioned don't really indicate much in the way of skill considering they were fighting people less powerful than themselves.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Zannah's style is special though. Its just a spinning wall. How can skill get passed that? Its noted to be practically impenetrable with the only Banes level of utter domination and physical superiority being able to get passed it. Maul does not possess that.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Clearly idiotic to be suggesting that Soresu intrinsically can't defend against Juyo. I guess Atris can beat Obi-Wan now. 🙄
Originally posted by Nephthys
Telekinetically, as an untrained child disconnected from her power she could levitate and disintegrate limbs by accident.
Originally posted by Nephthys
She's blocked Bane's attacks so Mauls won't trouble her.
Originally posted by Nephthys
She still defended herself admirably against Bane, meaning that she would do so against Maul. Maul couldn't even beat Obi-Wan with his brothers help, how is he going to penetrate a similar level of defense without his brother against an opponent more powerful than himself?
Maul has already beaten Obi-Wan. In all their fights, Maul has either been hindered my circumstancies or held back.
Originally posted by Nephthys
She'll either tire him out and defeat him or use her Sorcery to end him.
Originally posted by Pwned
On the issue of Cognus; She does have remarkable precog. All Iktochi do, in fact. Some weird thing with their race. It is combat applicable, yes.
True, but Wookieepedia claims that their precognitive abilities are drastically weakened off their home planet. Still, I was wrong in this I suppose.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
I did, but Luke's feat I recall of did not take place somewhere strong in the light side.
Nor did Harths, which took place on Nal Hutta. 🙂
Originally posted by Intrepid37
I guess that's kind of cool.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Prove that you need to ''access'' a nexus.
No.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
And really, given that the text says ''it's time'' right after describing his pain, and that he ''gathered the Force'' and it ''only took a moment to gather himself'', it seems to me that the pain strengthened him as it did Malgus.
It really doesn't suggest that to me. That he gathered the Force and prepared himself doesn't imply that either. I'm not just saying this because we're debating, but I think you're way of base here.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Your brain should tell you that one can't block one who, from their perspective, looks to be wielding dozens of sabers.
What your brain tells you contradicts the text. If anything this only makes Zannahs defense even more impressive, since she can defend against someone so faster than her. Even if Maul has an advantage in speed, it seems to me that it wouldn't matter against her.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Nope. I agree that orbalisk is faster, but DoE? No. Lesser and slower duelists than Maul and Anakin, have managed to fight DoE Bane just fine.
DoE Bane is canonically faster than RoT Bane. Suck it.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Maul has moved so fast that, should he be recorded, one would have to see the tape in slow-motion before they'd be able to see him. He's faster than Jinn who can move his blade so fast it expands into a shield, he can kill six Sandpeople in an eyeblink, produce a web of light out of his blade etc.Anakin has fought so fast that Dooku only saw afterimages of his blade.
All very impressive, but not... as fast... as Bane. 😉
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Dooku is faster than Obi-Wan
Really?
Originally posted by Intrepid37
who is faster than Jinn
Really?
Originally posted by Intrepid37
What?
You're not aware of the circumstances of his fight with Sidious? You never actually bothered to read to passage you're trumpeting? You can read it here if you want. To summerise though: Maul was hunted for a month by assassins droids. He was starving, weak and thin, almost insane and wounded by a blaster shot to his thigh. The wound festered. By the time Sidious arrived he was so far gone he was certain he was going to die and convinced that he was hallucinating.
Tell me again how extremely fast he is though. 😉
Originally posted by Intrepid37
You make the assumption so it's you who should provide the proof.
Haha, no. You're the one claiming that Bane was amped by a Force Nexus. So you should prove that he was. And then that there even was a Force Nexus.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Maul was never injured, weak or famished when he could not track Sidious' blade.Also, don't get your last point.
Is that you fiiiiinal answer????
Originally posted by Intrepid37
''almost conclusively'' isn't enough. Faster than she ever imagined was because he held back in their sparring sessions, likely between RoT and DoE and thus she'd never imagine he was that fast considering she thinks of him as weaker than in RoT.
'Almost conclusively' is almost certainly good enough. The quote is 'faster than she could ever have imagined'. She certainly could imagine him as being as fast as he was in RoT simply by remembering it. If you really want to go this route I'll amend my statement to it completely conclusively proving it.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
How fast is Bane at this point? Also, they were fighting on a nexus and Kas'im was using two blades if I remember correctly, Yoda only one.
Fast enough to be winning the fight despite this. Fast enough to move quick enough so that no-one could even see his attacks in his duel with Sirak. Even as an untrained Force Sensitive he could move fast enough for time to slow down and shoot 8 soldiers in 3 seconds. But even so, he was certainly at least twice as quick as normal man. Yoda was drawn with 6 blades so Kasi'm, even if you half his own number of lightsabers because he was dual wielding, still likely equals or surpasses Yoda's feat there.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Also, that Stover wrote it so Yoda could fight Sidious and actually see his movements puts him above Mace and Anakin in speed. Mace landed six hits on Vastor before he could even move and Anakin looked to produce afterimages from Dooku's point of view.
: NON-CAAAAAAAAAANON!!!!!!!!!
Also that doesn't really make sense since Anakin = Dooku in speed and Yoda isn't high enough above Dooku that he's invisible to him.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
I'm assuming what is logical.Maul throws over thousands of slashes and lunges in his training sessions in extremely short time as his basic training, but I very much doubt that he threw over thousands of slashes in his fight in TPM, don't you?
When you assume you make an ass out of u and me.
The TMP was broken up by moments of non-action. The actual fight is about 3 minutes not counting these. Besides which is the fact that he's undoubtedly moving faster than our perception of events, meaning that its likely to be much, much shorter than his training session.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
As far as I'm aware, neither of these has to do with her speed.
According to Kas'im the number one, absolute most important aspect of lightsaber fighting is Force Strength. And how exactly is her being 'extremely swift' not to do with her speed?
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Nah. Bane actually tells Zannah that he's weaker than once and Zannah says that he's become weaker than once, both in DoE.
Weaker than he was once was, not that he once was in RoT. He could be weaker than he once was some time after RoT and still be more powerful than he once was in RoT.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
What am I supposed to prove?
Nothing I suppose.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
How does skill not get passed that? Being more skillful, Maul would obviously find a way.
Obviously. Perhaps he'll.....
He'll.....
He'll........
Hmm. mmm
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Point is, you're thinking Zannah is invisible because Bane couldn't pass her defense. 😬I'm interested in how you reached that conclusion.
Since Bane is a better lightsaber duelist than Maul, its an easy conclusion to come to.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Did she not do that involentarily?
Are you suggesting that she's worse with TK as a fully trained Sith Lord than as a child who didn't even know she was Force Sensitive?
Originally posted by Intrepid37
lolMaul has already beaten Obi-Wan. In all their fights, Maul has either been hindered my circumstancies or held back.
And yet common-consensus is that Obi-Wan is his superior or equal. So how is Maul going to defeat someone much more powerful than Obi-Wan with similar defense?
Originally posted by Intrepid37
She's not gonna be out-tirring Maul.
He lacks the physical strength to wear her down and the speed to penetrate her defenses. She will.
Zannah says in their final battle (DOE) that Bane's 'faster than she could ever have imagined'. She fought RoT Bane when he went berserk and saw him fight the Strike Team, so she's well aware of his speed as of RoT. Thus its natural to conclude that he's faster.
Yeah, it was blatant. I was tired and couldn't be bothered to write out why Obi-Wan and Maul are more or less equals.
Anyway, I can't help but notice that you only ever attack my arguments (every single ****ing time I post) so you can shove your bias where the sun don't shine. I'm not talking to you, so perhaps you should mind your own business.
Nice try.
Dynasty of Evil
During her years under Bane, they had sparred hundreds of times. During these sessions she had
always known he was keeping something in reserve for the day they would inevitably fight for
real. Only now did she realize just how much he had been holding back.
He was faster than she could ever have imagined, and he was using new sequences and
unfamiliar moves he had never revealed during their practice sessions. But somehow she had
survived the initial flurry, and now she knew what to expect.
Zannah notes that her previous encounters with Bane were ones in which the latter restrained himself. Not to mention that her musing could easily be interpreted as "he was faster than she could have ever imagined [without orbalisks/at his age/both]." It need not explicitly translate to DOE!Bane's superiority over ROT!Bane.