HOTM Hulk VS Superboy Prime

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Every time he's battled Prime, especially right before and after he died, he's been able to hurt him. Often to the point where he literally forces him to cry out in pain. Coupled with the fact that actual high heralds such as J'onn and Hal Jordan are capable of doing so as well, it's anything but PIS that Conner is able to harm him. Conner isn't on Prime's level, clearly, but he's at a threshold where he can hurt Prime and be hurt by Prime without instantly dying. What's PIS about that? If Prime no sold attacks by high heralds consistently you might have a point, but he doesn't in spite of being overall more powerful than them.

What character hasn't been hurt throughout their history? Does Prime have to no sell EVERYTHING that has ever been thrown at him to have a chance in this fight? All of this "he's been hurt before" has no bearing on the overall outcome of a prolonged one on one fight and is in essence a very weak argument. If any of these guys were actually able to defeat him outright then you'd have a legitimate argument.

Prime decisively. Not even close tbh.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Bullshit.

If Superman was in any position to actually fight Prime for the same duration that Conner was in, I have no doubt that he'd do at least as well. Hell, Superman was more concerned trying to get through to Prime more often than he was trying to fight and beat him.

EDIT -
Before someone misinterprets my post, I meant the time Prime's HV wrecked SM's hand.

Originally posted by Sundipped
What character hasn't been hurt throughout their history? Does Prime have to no sell [b]EVERYTHING that has ever been thrown at him to have a chance in this fight? All of this "he's been hurt before" has no bearing on the overall outcome of a prolonged one on one fight and is in essence a very weak argument. If any of these guys were actually able to defeat him outright then you'd have a legitimate argument. [/B]

Of course not, especially considering I stated many pages ago that I'm not opposed to Prime winning this.

My point is that if low to high heralds have the means to hurt Prime on a consistent basis, then someone like this iteration of Hulk will, without a shadow of a doubt, hurt Prime with his punches. And badly. And yes, Prime can hurt this Hulk as well, but if Prime doesn't end this quickly (which given both his feats and Hulk's, I find doubtful) this is going to be a hellacious fight for him.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Prime decisively. Not even close tbh.

Of course it's close.

Originally posted by zopzop
Didn't SBP rip a hole through Superman using heat vision? Yet Connor conspicuously escapes that fate.

EDIT -
Before someone misinterprets my post, I meant the time Prime's HV wrecked SM's hand.

Prime's heat vision pierced through several characters that didn't die. Even Sodam "The Abortion" Yat got point blank heat vision to the face. And Conner managed to permanently scar Prime as well, too. We also have instances of Phantom Zone Zod's heat vision penetrating Superman.

To that end, heat vision isn't and wouldn't be a one shot kill for most high heralds.

Originally posted by Stoic
HOTM Hulk would have turned Wonder Girl and Connor into dust though. I think that's the point that is trying to be delivered here.

That won't work on Prime so it's irrelevant for the sake of this thread.

Prime faster and stronger

Originally posted by Sundipped
That won't work on Prime so it's irrelevant for the sake of this thread.

If Hulk could theoretically vaporize beings of the same general power level that Prime faced indirectly with the shockwave of his punches where as Prime himself could not, I'd imagine it's relevant.

Obviously, Prime's not going to be disintegrated, but it's certainly a valid point to be made.

Originally posted by Sundipped
What character hasn't been hurt throughout their history? Does Prime have to no sell [b]EVERYTHING that has ever been thrown at him to have a chance in this fight? All of this "he's been hurt before" has no bearing on the overall outcome of a prolonged one on one fight and is in essence a very weak argument. If any of these guys were actually able to defeat him outright then you'd have a legitimate argument. [/B]

Huh?Not a weak argument at all. If a character is able to be consistently as well as substantively hurt (screaming in pain, drawing blood etc) by beings of a certain level, that information is particularly useful in determining how said character would fair in a prolonged fight against a being far above the level that the character in question had been consistently hurt by. The overall outcome of the comic fights is infact not as important as the specific details of the fights (what he was hurt by, how his punches affected his opponent etc) when being translated to a forum setting because within a comic, the plot and and specific character personalities and mentalities largely determine how characters fight and the tactics they employ. These in turn largely determine the outcome of fights and vary tremendously from comic to comic. On the other hand details like the effectuality of the particular characters attacks on his opponenent and vice versa give us a more objective assessment of the characters actual capabilities and power level and are thus more relevant in a forum in which extenuating circumstances and conditions are minimized.

Prime.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If Hulk could theoretically vaporize beings of the same general power level that Prime faced indirectly with the shockwave of his punches where as Prime himself could not, I'd imagine it's relevant.

Obviously, Prime's not going to be disintegrated, but it's certainly a valid point to be made.

Wasn't that force generated from 2 beings though?
If so, then Hulk doing that doesn't necessarily equate to him being>>>>>Prime in terms of strength despite Prime not walking through his opponents in the same manner.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Prime's heat vision pierced through several characters that didn't die. Even Sodam "The Abortion" Yat got point blank heat vision to the face.

And Conner managed to permanently scar Prime as well, too.

We also have instances of Phantom Zone Zod's heat vision penetrating Superman.

To that end, heat vision isn't and wouldn't be a one shot kill for most high heralds.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If Hulk could theoretically vaporize beings of the same general power level that Prime faced indirectly with the shockwave of his punches where as Prime himself could not, I'd imagine it's relevant.

Obviously, Prime's not going to be disintegrated, but it's certainly a valid point to be made.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Prime decisively. Not even close tbh.

Originally posted by Stoic
HOTM Hulk would have turned Wonder Girl and Connor into dust though. I think that's the point that is trying to be delivered here.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Huh?Not a weak argument at all. If a character is able to be consistently as well as substantively hurt (screaming in pain, drawing blood etc) by beings of a certain level, that information is particularly useful in determining how said character would fair in a prolonged fight against a being far above the level that the character in question had been consistently hurt by. The overall outcome of the comic fights is infact not as important as the specific details of the fights (what he was hurt by, how his punches affected his opponent etc) when being translated to a forum setting because within a comic, the plot and and specific character personalities and mentalities largely determine how characters fight and the tactics they employ. These in turn largely determine the outcome of fights and vary tremendously from comic to comic. On the other hand details like the effectuality of the particular characters attacks on his opponenent and vice versa give us a more objective assessment of the characters actual capabilities and power level and are thus more relevant in a forum in which extenuating circumstances and conditions are minimized.

It was more of a response of me being fed up with the "hurt" argument and hearing it so much, especially in Prime's case. Sure Prime has been hurt but that's not something that severely handicaps him during the course of battle. A little blood drawn really means nothing in his case. He was in good shape after beating the crap out of ION....a fight in which he was bleeding heavily against a being beyond the herald level characters that are constantly brought up against Prime. So just because he gets staggered or an opponent draws blood, Prime is still able to push on and pound it out. I understand what you're saying but that was my main complaint. I just wish people wouldn't focus as much on that as they do.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Wasn't that force generated from 2 beings though?
If so, then Hulk doing that doesn't necessarily equate to him being>>>>>Prime in terms of strength despite Prime not walking
through his opponents in the same manner.

Even if you divided the force generated by 2, The facts that the characters were:

1.- Disintegrated/vaporized (which in this context takes several orders of magnitude more force than a mere ko)
2.- Not even directly hit, but disintegrated by the shockwave of the concussive force (which would take several orders of magnitude more force than even disintegrating them from a direct hit)
3.- A very good distance away from the direct hit (what looked to be Miles away and which in turn would take exponentially more force than if they were disintegrated without being hit, but within close proximity of the direct hit. )

mean that even dividing it by two, the force required and strength being displayed still far exceeds (exponentially exceeds) and isnt even comparable to that being displayed by Prime in his fights against characters of similar strength.

Originally posted by zopzop

Well he was AMPED by the ION Entity no?

Yet more powerful beings didn't do squat to SBP. P I S.

Of course not. It depends where the "body puncturing HV" attack was aimed. Just like a bullet to the shoulder wouldn't kill me immediately, yet that same bullet to my brain or heart would end me.

You seriously comparing those F-listers Hulk killed to DC's A-list lineup?! 😘 [/B]

And he did jack all with it.

More powerful beings than Conner hurt him to the point of crying out in pain.

You're applying human physiology and how important those organs are to us to a guy who's survived without a heart in addition to far more damaging attacks than heat vision.

I wasn't aware the Teen Titans and the mid-tier beings on the JSA in addition to the other random heroes are A-Listers, let alone that Wendigo and co. were F-Listers. Even if you don't subscribe to the theory that they were literally amped to x1000 power, at their base, they were peers to Savage Hulk. That's grossly impressive to be able to incinerate those beings without even punching them directly.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
No, I don't. Conner's happened to fight Prime for longer periods of time than Superman. And considering everyone else who's able to hurt Prime on some level, I think it would be absurd to assume that Kal can't hurt Prime.

Superman has never managed something like that. Ever. The closest he came was when he grabbed Prime from behind and tried to redeem him. He promptly had heat vision shot through his hand for his troubles.

So basically Superboy > Superman is what you're saying?