ROTS Obi Wan Kenobi Vs ROTS Kit Fisto

Started by DARTH POWER13 pages

If there's one thing this debate proves it's that TCW really didn't lowball Grievous at all.

Which btw means that since Mace struggled against Grievous in LOE(certainly more than Fisto did) then Fisto is automatically on par with Windu too.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
If there's one thing this debate proves it's that TCW really didn't lowball Grievous at all.

Which btw means that since Mace struggled against Grievous in LOE(certainly more than Fisto did) then Fisto is automatically on par with Windu too.

No. Fisto Vs Grievous was a fluke. If they fought again Grievous would destroy him. He improves by seasons. You have to look at the variables of the fight.

1.Grievous had new armor wasint used to it(which is why he did MAD well against Fisto + Padawan).
2.Fisto had 2sabers and uses Shii-Cho.
3.Grievous improved later in the clone wars. By the end he would beat Fisto in say 15seconds(Grievous has manged to give Kenobi/Windu/Dooku HELL in there fights).

Fisto>Grievous IS MAD WACK. Mightaswell say fisto=kenobi/windu/dooku/yoda then.

Originally posted by Ragnosfan1998
No. Fisto Vs Grievous was a fluke.

Actually the arm he chopped off did seem a bit of a fluke. Especially since he couldn't chop off another one. But whatever I'll give him that since it's his best feat to date.

Originally posted by Ragnosfan1998
If they fought again Grievous would destroy him. He improves by seasons.

That's true. Since he was being trained by Dooku the whole time, a fact Grievous specifically points out to Kenobi in ROTS despite the fact that they've fought many times before.

So simply put Kenobi(and probably Ventress) battered a much better trained Grievous than the one Fisto fought, and didn't even beat.

^Agreed!.

Fisto never beat Grievous.... You could say he was winning but he didint beat him. That is simply untrue for those who say Fisto>Grievous based of that 30second "fight".

Originally posted by ares834
Yeah, that seems to indicate it's the Nightsister's unique magic. Not that it can only be performed on Dathomir.

Now you're just splitting hairs. The quote says it's the "life forces of the planet" that fuels Talzin's magics not a dark side nexus.

Fisto's performance wasn't as good. Ventress actually beat Grievous.

1. I'll try andlook it up.

2. Sure, but Dathomir is a nexus, which would've enhanced Ventress's performance against Grievous.

3. He downed Grievous in ten seconds, waited until Grievous came up, took him ten more seconds before Grievous calls for help. I honestly have no idea how you're not seeing it.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
If you read the posts, you'd know everyone has agreed to that.

You didn't answer my question. I asked why this thread is still going. You responded with a snarky remark. But by the rules of this forum, now that we're all off topic another topic should be made, and the thread closed.

Originally posted by Intrepid37

2. Sure, but Dathomir is a nexus, which would've enhanced Ventress's performance against Grievous.

The Grievous Ventress fought was much better trained than the early CW Grievous which Fisto fought.

So fact is as far as we know Ventress is still > Fisto.

Btw where's it stated that Dathomir is a Dark Side Nexus?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
3. He downed Grievous in ten seconds, waited until Grievous came up, took him ten more seconds before Grievous calls for help. I honestly have no idea how you're not seeing it.

Actually first he hid from Grievous trying to get a surprise attack on him. Then he chopped off one arm while using Dun Moch. But was unable to chop off a second arm like Kenobi did so easily after chopping off the first.

Then he puts Grievous down via a Force Push, something Ventress didn't even feel the need to resort to. Yet Grievous still got back up and kept on fighting.

Overall Fisto fought Grievous for longer than Ventress yet still failed to actually defeat him unlike Ventress. So his performance against the General was not as good as hers.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
You didn't answer my question. I asked why this thread is still going. You responded with a snarky remark. But by the rules of this forum, now that we're all off topic another topic should be made, and the thread closed.

Even though Intrepid's agreeing Kenobi is a notch above Grievous, he and S66 are still trying to argue that Fisto, Ventress and Kenobi are all relatively on par.

That's why this hasn't ended. And as far as I know S66 won't even admit Kenobi's overall superiority to Fisto.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
You didn't answer my question. I asked why this thread is still going. You responded with a snarky remark. But by the rules of this forum, now that we're all off topic another topic should be made, and the thread closed.

Most topics go off-topic. Not sure why it's such a big deal for you.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The Grievous Ventress fought was much better trained than the early CW Grievous which Fisto fought.

And? Fisto was less trained in S1 than he'd be in S5 aswell.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
So fact is as far as we know Ventress is still > Fisto.

We don't.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Btw where's it stated that Dathomir is a Dark Side Nexus?

Official site, probably sourcebooks which I'll check in a minute.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Actually first he hid from Grievous trying to get a surprise attack on him. Then he chopped off one arm while using Dun Moch. But was unable to chop off a second arm like Kenobi did so easily after chopping off the first.

Then he puts Grievous down via a Force Push, something Ventress didn't even feel the need to resort to. Yet Grievous still got back up and kept on fighting.

Overall Fisto fought Grievous for longer than Ventress yet still failed to actually defeat him unlike Ventress. So his performance against the General was not as good as hers.


Again: Dathomir is apparantly a nexus which would've enhanced Ventress' performance; unlike Kit, Ventress got kicked, and unlike Kit, Ventress never gained any ground. How is Ventress' performance better?

Regarding the nexus on Dathomir, this should be sufficient:

If this were true, certainly Dathomir would be the perfect academy. Luke could feel tremendous disturbances in the Force, yawning pits of darkness. He'd never run across anything remotely like it. Yoda's cave had held such a darkness, but here he felt it all around him.

-The Courtship of Princess Leia

Some combination of the strictures-or perhaps recognition on Plagueis's part for his apprentice's unabated craving to visit Sith worlds-had landed Palpatine on scenic Dathomir. Sparsely populated and largely unexplored, Dathomir wasn't Korriban or Ziost, but it was powerful in the Force, in part because of its fecundity, but mainly due to the presence of groups of female adepts who practiced dark side magicks.

-Darth Plagueis

Kenobi > Fisto thanks to his greater feats and victories. It's really THAT simple.

Not really. Obi-Wan is more exposed than Kit. Nowhere is he touted or implied to be Fisto's better. He's not Yoda, Mace, or a prodigy like Anakin. He's just an excellent swordsman: like Fisto himself. Given their similar rank, station, accolades, comparable performance against Grievous, Fisto's confirmed superiority over Obi-Wan in TCD, and the fact that they're both fodder for Palpatine, I see no reason to conclude Obi-Wan is necessarily Kit's superior; and if he is, I see nothing to indicate that it's by a considerable margin.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Most topics go off-topic. Not sure why it's such a big deal for you.

Not really a big deal. Just a reading suggestion.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Not really a big deal. Just a reading suggestion.

If it was a suggestion towards me, I'm well aware we're off-topic already, thank you.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Regarding the nexus on Dathomir, this should be sufficient:

If this were true, certainly Dathomir would be the perfect academy. Luke could feel tremendous disturbances in the Force, yawning pits of darkness. He'd never run across anything remotely like it. Yoda's cave had held such a darkness, but here he felt it all around him.

-The Courtship of Princess Leia

Some combination of the strictures-or perhaps recognition on Plagueis's part for his apprentice's unabated craving to visit Sith worlds-had landed Palpatine on scenic Dathomir. Sparsely populated and largely unexplored, Dathomir wasn't Korriban or Ziost, but it was powerful in the Force, in part because of its fecundity, but mainly due to the presence of groups of female adepts who practiced dark side magicks.

-Darth Plagueis

I'm not denying that Dathomir is a nexus, what I'm saying is we don't know how powerful it is. And therefore, the boost to Ventress abilities is unknown.

It's more powerful than the cave on Dagobah though, which is a known nexus according to The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, and Luke's description implies it's a powerful one. I could look for more descriptions if you want.

Well, how powerful is the one on Dagobah?

Even more problematic is how much do they enhance a force users power? Is it by 100%? 50%? 10%?

I can see using the nexus as a way to dismiss the feat, but really that's it. Ultimately, it makes it virtually impossible to compare the Grievous duels.

I'm not saying we should dismiss it. I'm saying that, personally, I don't see how Ventress's performance is better than Kit's due to the nexus enhancement.

We can compare Ventress's fights against Ahsoka with Grievous's fights against Ahsoka. Not sure who has done better, but it's a possibility.

I'll get back to you with the nexus's power.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I'm saying that, personally, I don't see how Ventress's performance is better than Kit's due to the nexus enhancement.

Fair enough. But we can't say the opposite either.

Alright. According to the Encyclopedia, the nexus on Dagobah was strong enough to neutralize Yoda's lightside signature so that the Empire could not find him. That Dathomir was stronger than Dagobah says something, in my opinion.