Originally posted by The_TempestIs Fisto considered the foremost experct and master of his form like Kenobi? I've never heard him refereneced as such. Dooku comments on how highly Yoda thinks of Kenobi... Anakin refers to Kenobi as being as wise as Yoda and as powerful as Mace.. .some hyperbole sure, but fisto is never mentioned in the same breath as them by anybody. Mace even comments that Kenobi is the only one that can take out the general.. that he even has a better chance than himself... If Fisto was so good and in the same league why wasn't he choosen? Why did Mace think Kenobi was the perfect choice for the job?
Not really. Obi-Wan is more exposed than Kit. Nowhere is he touted or implied to be Fisto's better. He's not Yoda, Mace, or a prodigy like Anakin. He's just an excellent swordsman: like Fisto himself. Given their similar rank, station, accolades, comparable performance against Grievous, Fisto's confirmed superiority over Obi-Wan in TCD, and the fact that they're both fodder for Palpatine, I see no reason to conclude Obi-Wan is necessarily Kit's superior; and if he is, I see nothing to indicate that it's by a considerable margin.
The fact is...Fisto was treated like a weak feeb next to Sids... Maul and Opress did better against Sids than Fisto did. We all know kenobi held his own against both at the same time. Thus it's fair to say Kenobi would've lasted longer against the emperor. Sure he wouldn't have won, but he'd do better than last 3 secs that much we can say.
Good post KT. But I'd stay away from frustrated padawan Anakin's "Wise as Yoda and Powerful as Windu" quote.
Just to add to your points, in the ROTS Novel Dooku thinks a Saber attack through Kenobi's saber defenses would be pointless. Plus Mace names Kenobi THE Master of his chosen form.
But I do think Sids could take Kenobi out in 3 seconds with a direct force attack. However I agree he wouldn't just Saber blitz him the way he did Fisto, Tiin and Kolar. Which is probably why Dave Filoni said that even Opress performed better against Sidious than those 3 did.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Alright. According to the Encyclopedia, the nexus on Dagobah was strong enough to neutralize Yoda's lightside signature so that the Empire could not find him. That Dathomir was stronger than Dagobah says something, in my opinion.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
It's more powerful than the cave on Dagobah though, which is a known nexus according to The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, and Luke's description implies it's a powerful one. I could look for more descriptions if you want.
Fair enough, but still doesn't change the facts. Which are that early CW Ventress bested Fisto. We know Ventress became significantly more powerful but we don't know that about Fisto.
He just has no feats to put him above Ventress/Opress and on par with Maul like Kenobi has proven himself to be.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Is Fisto considered the foremost experct and master of his form like Kenobi?
In as much words, no, but The Revenge of the Sith Visual Dictionary does reference Fisto's Shi-Cho mastery in high regard.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Dooku comments on how highly Yoda thinks of Kenobi... Anakin refers to Kenobi as being as wise as Yoda and as powerful as Mace.. .some hyperbole sure, but fisto is never mentioned in the same breath as them by anybody.
Both Mace and Obi-Wan each regard Kit as being among "the best" of the order and "the greatest bladebeings [the Jedi] have ever produced." And that's without observable hyperbole, unlike Obi-Wan's accolade.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Mace even comments that Kenobi is the only one that can take out the general.. that he even has a better chance than himself... If Fisto was so good and in the same league why wasn't he choosen? Why did Mace think Kenobi was the perfect choice for the job?
Obvious hyperbole is obvious. We know for a fact that Obi-Wan isn't Mace's equal, let alone superior, as a duelist. Likewise, I could just flip this and say, if Obi-Wan is so good, why wasn't Kit sent to hunt Grievous down (since he beat him in the past), freeing up Obi-Wan to help lend a hand in the pursuit of Sidious, a far more dangerous quarry than Grievous?
Obi-Wan's experience with Grievous is peerless, it would make sense to send him to hunt Grievous down.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The fact is...Fisto was treated like a weak feeb next to Sids... Maul and Opress did better against Sids than Fisto did.
That's because Sidious "unleashed his full fury" against Mace's companions (The New Essential Chronology) whereas he was clearly toying with Maul and Opress.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
We all know kenobi held his own against both at the same time.
We all know Obi-Wan held his own against both in a highly circumstantial duel under abnormal conditions.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Thus it's fair to say Kenobi would've lasted longer against the emperor.
Your argument has more holes than swiss cheese and isn't nearly as tasty.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Sure he wouldn't have won, but he'd do better than last 3 secs that much we can say.
That's a polite way of saying Sidious would completely and utterly wreck his shit and is about as dangerous to Sidious as plankton to a humpback whale. Per George, "you have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with Palpatine," so unless Obi-Wan is an anagram for Mace or Yoda, I'd caution you to set the crack pipe down.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
In as much words, no, but The Revenge of the Sith Visual Dictionary does reference Fisto's Shi-Cho mastery in high regard.Both Mace and Obi-Wan each regard Kit as being among "the best" of the order and "the greatest bladebeings [the Jedi] have ever produced." And that's without observable hyperbole, unlike Obi-Wan's accolade.
Obvious hyperbole is obvious. We know for a fact that Obi-Wan isn't Mace's equal, let alone superior, as a duelist. Likewise, I could just flip this and say, if Obi-Wan is so good, why wasn't Kit sent to hunt Grievous down (since he beat him in the past), freeing up Obi-Wan to help lend a hand in the pursuit of Sidious, a [b]far
more dangerous quarry than Grievous?Obi-Wan's experience with Grievous is peerless, it would make sense to send him to hunt Grievous down.
That's because Sidious "unleashed his full fury" against Mace's companions (The New Essential Chronology) whereas he was clearly toying with Maul and Opress.
We all know Obi-Wan held his own against both in a highly circumstantial duel under abnormal conditions.
Your argument has more holes than swiss cheese and isn't nearly as tasty.
That's a polite way of saying Sidious would completely and utterly wreck his shit and is about as dangerous to Sidious as plankton to a humpback whale. Per George, "you have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with Palpatine," so unless Obi-Wan is an anagram for Mace or Yoda, I'd caution you to set the crack pipe down. [/B]
Sometimes you're a good poster, and other times like this, you just baffle me with how piss poor your post was.
1. So the answer is NO, fisto isn't regarded as THE master of his form above all others like Kenobi is. Clearly, another example of how Fisto's accolades aren't on the level of Kenobi's, even though you claimed they were above.
2. Mace and Kenobi both think highly of Fisto, but clearly Mace doesn't think AS highly of Fisto as Kenobi. Not only does Mace praise Kenobi being THE master of his form... he also sends him after The General and claims he IS THE man for the job. He could've sent Fisto, ohhh but wait, he isn't the rank of Kenobi (again inferior accolades to Kenobi) and he isn't the swordsman kenobi is according to Mace
3. Do you just make dumb poimts without thinking? Sids wasn't even known about when Mace sent Kenobi on his mission... So why the **** would you even bring up such a stupid point? Mace could've sent Fisto to get The General as he also has experience with him. INstead he sent kenobi. Sucks for Mace though.. as had Kenobi beeen there by his side, he would've have gone down like the a weak feeb ala Fisto.
4. Sids treating Fisto like a weak feeb isn't excused because Sids unleashed his fury. Kenobi would've done better and there is no getting around that point. No amount of red rerrings or ad hominem fallacies (put down the pipe) can change that. Putting down the pipe would be used if I said Kenobi had a chance... stating he would last longer isn't worthy of such an expression. Though typical of you when you don't have much of a leg to stand on.
What it comes down to is Kenobi has more verbal accolades, higher rank and trust more with dangerous jobs than Fisto is. There is just no getting around these points, and no amount of fallacies and sparring matches among frriends changes that.
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
^uhhhh Kenobi>Fisto yeah but it dosint mean Fisto cant win 3 out of 10fights. Or that there not close in skill/power. Your BEATING THE DEAD PIG DUDE.
I don't recall saying that it's crazy talk to think Fisto wins 3 fights... Personally I would put it as a one off for Fisto to beat Kenobi, but it wouldn't be outlandish for someone to think he can win 3.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
1. So the answer is NO, fisto isn't regarded as THE master of his form above all others like Kenobi is. Clearly, another example of how Fisto's accolades aren't on the level of Kenobi's, even though you claimed they were above.
1. I told you... obvious pep talk is obvious... Yoda, Dooku, Maul, Sidious, Anakin, etc. aren't ever referred to as TEH!!!1! master of their lightsaber forms... guess Obi-Wan must be more skilled than they... except for a fact that we know Obi-Wan isn't... I claimed that Kit has similar accolades... he's named as a celebrated swordmaster and one of the best ever... by Obi-Wan himself... why don't you go find one where Obi-Wan is called as much by another source and/or character... I'll wait...
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
2. Mace and Kenobi both think highly of Fisto, but clearly Mace doesn't think AS highly of Fisto as Kenobi.
Prove it...
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Not only does Mace praise Kenobi being THE master of his form...
A form Kit doesn't practice... Kenobi being THE master of his form (again, obvious pep talk is obvious) doesn't make him any more skilled than one who is never named as THE master of his form... (like Yoda, for example, dumbass)....
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
he also sends him after The General and claims he IS THE man for the job.
ROTS script
All the JEDI concur.ANAKIN: The Chancellor has requested that I lead the campaign.
They all look at ANAKIN a bit disturbed.
MACE: (a little peeved) The Council will make up its own mind who is to go, not the Chancellor.
Kl-ADI-MUNDI: Yes, this decision is ours to make.
ANAKIN is embarrassed and becomes sullen.
YODA: A Master is needed, with more experience.
MACE: Given our resources, I recommend we send only one Jedi . . . Master Kenobi.
ANAKIN: He was not so successful the last time he met Grievous.
OBI-WAN throws ANAKIN a dirty look.
ANAKIN: (continuing) No offense, my Master, but I'm only stating a fact.
OBI-WAN: Oh no, you're quite right, but I do have the most experience with his ways of combat.
ROTS novel
"Agreed." Mace Windu looked around the half-empty Council
Chamber with a deepening frown. "And one last touch Let's let the
Chancellor know, through Anakin, [b]that our most cunning and
insightful Master—and our most tenacious—is to lead the hunt
for Grievous."[/b]
Wow, look at that... no reference at all to Obi-Wan being TEH MOST AWESOME FIGHTER EVERER AND BETTER DAN EVRYONE ELSE LAWL!... they send him because he has more experience on all matters Grievous... and is the most cunning and tenacious master... looks increasingly like Mace's pep talk was just that... and it seems I just sank your battleship...
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
He could've sent Fisto, ohhh but wait,
Just like he could have kept Obi-Wan in reserve to use against Sidious, ohhhh but waittttttttt....t.t.t.t.t....................
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
he isn't the rank of Kenobi (again inferior accolades to Kenobi) and he isn't the swordsman kenobi is according to Mace
No one is the swordsman Kenobi is if you take Mace literally... even though we know per a number of sources that Yoda and Mace are both better swordsmen... obvious pep-talk is obvious except to Obi-Wan fanboys.........
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
3. Do you just make dumb poimts without thinking? Sids wasn't even known about when Mace sent Kenobi on his mission... So why the **** would you even bring up such a stupid point? Mace could've sent Fisto to get The General as he also has experience with him. INstead he sent kenobi. Sucks for Mace though.. as had Kenobi beeen there by his side, he would've have gone down like the a weak feeb ala Fisto.
ROTS novel
"And even if the prophecy has been misread," Agen Kolar
added, "Anakin is the one Jedi we can best hope would survive
an encounter with a Sith Lord. So let us also use him to help us
set our trap. In Council, let us emphasize that we are intensifying
our search for Grievous. Anakin will certainly report this to the
Chancellor's Office. Perhaps, as you say, that will draw Sidious
into action."
"It may not be enough," Mace Windu said. "Let us take this
one step farther—we should appear shorthanded, and weak, giving
Sidious an opening to make a move he thinks will go unobserved.
I'm thinking that perhaps we should let the Chancellor's
Office know that Yoda and I have both been forced to take the
field—"
"Too risky that is," Yoda said. "And too convenient. One of
us only should go."
"Then it should be you, Master Yoda," Agen Kolar said. "It
is your sensitivity to the broader currents of the Force that a Sith
Lord has most reason to fear."
Obi-Wan felt the ripple of agreement flow through the
Chamber, and Yoda nodded solemnly. "The Separatist attack on
Kashyyyk, a compelling excuse will make. And good relations
with the Wookiees I have; destroy the droid armies I can, and still
be available to Coruscant, should Sidious take our bait."
"Agreed." Mace Windu looked around the half-empty Council
Chamber with a deepening frown. "And one last touch Let's let the
Chancellor know, through Anakin, that our most cunning and
insightful Master—and our most tenacious—is to lead the hunt
for Grievous."
"So Sidious will need to act, and act fast, if the war is to be
maintained," Plo Koon added approvingly.
ROTS novel
"Dangerous, Grievous is. To face him, steady minds are needed-
Masters, we should send."
Perhaps of all the Council, only Obi-Wan could detect the
shadow of disappointment and hurt that crept into Anakin's
eyes. Obi-Wan understood perfectly, and could even sympathize: to
take the field would have slipped Anakin out from under the
pressures of what he saw as his conflicting duties.
"Given the strain on our current resources," Mace Windu
said, "I recommend we send only one Jedi—Master Kenobi."
Which would leave Mace and Agen Kolar—both among the
greatest bladesbeings the Jedi Order had ever produced—here on
Coruscant in case Sidious did indeed take this opportunity to make
a dramatic move. Not to mention Anakin, who was a brigade's
worth of firepower in his own right.
Obi-Wan nodded. Perfectly logical. Everyone would agree.
You probably didn't read that... reading's clearly not your forte... so I'll recap as succinctly as I can... the Jedi sent Yoda to Kashyyyk and Obi-Wan after Grievous to help make the Council look shorthanded... to lure Sidious out of hiding... they already knew he was here and operating... they just didn't know who... so they did in fact send Obi-Wan after Grievous knowing very well that an infinitely more dangerous enemy may very well choose that moment to strike against the Jedi... sorry bud, I'm always a step ahead....
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
4. Sids treating Fisto like a weak feeb isn't excused because Sids unleashed his fury. Kenobi would've done better and there is no getting around that point.
Sorry bro... there is... Lucas doesn't think Obi-Wan can even compete with Sidious... and the only thing you have suggesting that Obi-Wan can contend with him is your hard-on for Obi-Wan... nothing else...
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
No amount of red rerrings or ad hominem fallacies (put down the pipe) can change that. Putting down the pipe would be used if I said Kenobi had a chance... stating he would last longer isn't worthy of such an expression. Though typical of you when you don't have much of a leg to stand on.
It was a joke... one you took personally apparently... got a murky history with drugs, son? That explains the compromised brain function and cognitive faculties... this is also a joke... try not to get offended bro....
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
What it comes down to is Kenobi has more verbal accolades,
Which are obvious pep-talk... as you conceded earlier... otherwise Obi-Wan is better than Mace and Yoda...
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
higher rank
They're both Jedi Masters and members of the High Council...
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
and trust more with dangerous jobs than Fisto is.
Because taking on Grievous is a more dangerous job than taking on Sidious lol... they could have dispatched half a dozen Gungans and/or Ahsoka and the job would have gotten done... tell me again how Grievous is more dangerous than Sidious lololol....
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
There is just no getting around these points, and no amount of fallacies and sparring matches among frriends changes that.
Sounds like you just wanna ignore evidence that doesn't point to Obi-Wan being THE BESTEST ever... face it, they have similar accolades, rank, station, and comparable performance against Grievous... Obi-Wan has never been recognized as a prodigy like Anakin or as masterful as Yoda and Mace... he's good, very good, but he's nowhere near the top spot... just like Kit... he might win, but it won't be a stomp... imagine this in Ewan McGregor's voice if it titillates you more... lol....
^Agreed 100% man!. Amazing post!.
We can sum up this thread by agreeing Kenobi is a VERY good saber duelist and about the 6-7th best in the PT and slightly better then elite fighters such as Fisto/Tiin/Kolar. But is clearly far far far far far weaker then the likes of Yoda/Windu.
When you compare there feats, you can see it would be a greatn fight.
-Both defeated Grievous
-Both are two of the best Jedi in the order.
-Both are great saber masters.
-Both are above Ventress.
-Both have similar rankings.
The only reason it seems like Kenobi>>>>Fisto is because Kenobi is one of the main characters and has had more exposure.
So Kenobi wins after a great fight.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
1. I told you... obvious pep talk is obvious... Yoda, Dooku, Maul, Sidious, Anakin, etc. aren't ever referred to as [b]TEH!!!1! master of their lightsaber forms... guess Obi-Wan must be more skilled than they... except for a fact that we know Obi-Wan isn't... I claimed that Kit has similar accolades... he's named as a celebrated swordmaster and one of the best ever... by Obi-Wan himself... why don't you go find one where Obi-Wan is called as much by another source and/or character... I'll wait...Prove it...
A form Kit doesn't practice... Kenobi being THE master of his form (again, obvious pep talk is obvious) doesn't make him any more skilled than one who is never named as THE master of his form... (like Yoda, for example, dumbass)....
Wow, look at that... no reference at all to Obi-Wan being TEH MOST AWESOME FIGHTER EVERER AND BETTER DAN EVRYONE ELSE LAWL!... they send him because he has more experience on all matters Grievous... and is the most cunning and tenacious master... looks increasingly like Mace's pep talk was just that... and it seems I just sank your battleship...
Just like he could have kept Obi-Wan in reserve to use against Sidious, ohhhh but waittttttttt....t.t.t.t.t....................
No one is the swordsman Kenobi is if you take Mace literally... even though we know per a number of sources that Yoda and Mace are both better swordsmen... obvious pep-talk is obvious except to Obi-Wan fanboys.........
You probably didn't read that... reading's clearly not your forte... so I'll recap as succinctly as I can... the Jedi sent Yoda to Kashyyyk and Obi-Wan after Grievous to help make the Council look shorthanded... to lure Sidious out of hiding... they already knew he was here and operating... they just didn't know who... so they did in fact send Obi-Wan after Grievous knowing very well that an infinitely more dangerous enemy may very well choose that moment to strike against the Jedi... sorry bud, I'm always a step ahead....
Sorry bro... there is... Lucas doesn't think Obi-Wan can even compete with Sidious... and the only thing you have suggesting that Obi-Wan can contend with him is your hard-on for Obi-Wan... nothing else...
It was a joke... one you took personally apparently... got a murky history with drugs, son? That explains the compromised brain function and cognitive faculties... this is also a joke... try not to get offended bro....
Which are obvious pep-talk... as you conceded earlier... otherwise Obi-Wan is better than Mace and Yoda...
They're both Jedi Masters and members of the High Council...
Because taking on Grievous is a more dangerous job than taking on Sidious lol... they could have dispatched half a dozen Gungans and/or Ahsoka and the job would have gotten done... tell me again how Grievous is more dangerous than Sidious lololol....
Sounds like you just wanna ignore evidence that doesn't point to Obi-Wan being THE BESTEST ever... face it, they have similar accolades, rank, station, and comparable performance against Grievous... Obi-Wan has never been recognized as a prodigy like Anakin or as masterful as Yoda and Mace... he's good, very good, but he's nowhere near the top spot... just like Kit... he might win, but it won't be a stomp... imagine this in Ewan McGregor's voice if it titillates you more... lol.... [/B]
I was on vacation this weekend and couldn't respond.. but don't worry bud the tooling with continue here...
1. I see we need a lesson in fallacy 101... Just because it's not said about others who are great at what they do.. doesn't invalidate the praise being sent Kenobi's way.. I didn't think you needed these hints but maybe I was wrong. The praise stands as canon narration
2. Was Kit Fisto a General of forces during the clone wars like Kenobi.. I don't recall him putting put in charge of assaults and forces as Kenobi was. Clearly Kenobi climbed up through the ranks quicker and faster than fisto did. So really, their accolades are kinda close but Kenobi has the edge.
3. It doesn't mean nobody is the swordsman Kenobi is... it simply means he's one of the best and the master of his form. He was picked as the best for the job.. something Fisto was not picked as. Just another task kenobi was given over Fisto is all that was. Par for the course really.
4. I have read the novel and knew exactly the passage you were trying to use to support your case. Problem is, I just walked the dog and let you get their before I check raise you. First things first.... I was SPOT on with what I said.. even though you tried to act otherwise. They DIDN'T know who Sidious was and had no idea if he would show up once Kenobi was given his task. There was literally NOTHING I said that was false.
a. your problem is you proved my case... The saying and one the Jedi no doubt believe in is... A bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush. They had NO idea whether Sids would even come out of hiding AT ALL. What they did know is they needed to get rid of The General.. somebody that had been a constant thorn in their side. They needed that done and Kenobi was the man for the mission. dont' go all missing the point on me and try and twist fisto being left ehind as a sign he was better. That is a joke and about the worst proof you've posted so far.
b. what you also forgot is that you again further proved my case and didn't even realize it. In order to support your premise and conclusion would mean the Jedi would have to send their best away in order to lure Sids out. Which is EXACTLY why Yoda and Kenobi were sent away. In order for Sdis to feel safer coming out possibly.. would mean the best aren't their by your own premise. Not even knowing where I was leading you... you walked right into it. It actually would've looked better for Fisto to get assigned a tough task in getting the General.. and being one of the best so him goin away might lure Sids out. He wasn't.. and wanna know why? Cause Kenobi is just plain better.
Here are the facts that can't be gotten around... you say the quotes for kenobi are hyperbole but fail to realize that you killed your own case.. Pretty much all of what you've presented can be considered hyperbole if we go by your own standards. That is pretty much your entire case. So if we throw out ALL the lines of narration... what are left with is... kenobi has been put in charge or more tasks.. reached a higher rank....has beaten better people and has the better feats. There is literally no way around those facts. Sorry bud, but it's a pretty cut and dry case. Kenobi > Fisto
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
1. I see we need a lesson in fallacy 101... Just because it's not said about others who are great at what they do.. doesn't invalidate the praise being sent Kenobi's way.. I didn't think you needed these hints but maybe I was wrong. The praise stands as canon narration
1. Except that if we take the praise completely and literally... it indicates Kenobi is a better duelist than Mace or Yoda... which you conceded earlier wasn't the case... in fact you admit the praise contains inherent hyperbole... so what you're telling me is that you're using admittedly(!) unreliable quotes to affirm Kenobi's superiority over Fisto... this is problematic for obvious reasons...
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
2. Was Kit Fisto a General of forces during the clone wars like Kenobi.. I don't recall him putting put in charge of assaults and forces as Kenobi was.
2. I believe Fisto was... (Wookieepedia says as much, anyway)... but I can't confirm it at this time... either way, tho, what does Kenobi's skills as a tactician (his only relevant skill as a general) have to do with exceeding Fisto as a swordsman?
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Clearly Kenobi climbed up through the ranks quicker and faster than fisto did. So really, their accolades are kinda close but Kenobi has the edge.
3. Even if Obi-Wan has an "edge" in accolades... that doesn't undermine my point which is that the two are comparable...
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
3. It doesn't mean nobody is the swordsman Kenobi is... it simply means he's one of the best and the master of his form. He was picked as the best for the job.. something Fisto was not picked as. Just another task kenobi was given over Fisto is all that was. Par for the course really.
4. Of course he's one of the best and a master of his form... that was never in dispute... but you're moving the goalpost here... if you want to take the praise literally (and you already admitted it's hyerbolic) then you must accept that Obi-Wan is a better swordsman than Mace and Yoda... even though we know he's not...
And per the script and the book, Obi-Wan was selected due to his cunning and experience on all things Grievous... not because he was a better swordsman than Fisto...
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
4. I have read the novel and knew exactly the passage you were trying to use to support your case. Problem is, I just walked the dog and let you get their before I check raise you. First things first.... I was SPOT on with what I said.. even though you tried to act otherwise. They DIDN'T know who Sidious was and had no idea if he would show up once Kenobi was given his task. There was literally NOTHING I said that was false.
4. No... you said "Sidious wasn't even known about when Mace sent Kenobi on his mission"... but the book indicates Sidious was definitely known about... he was in the Council's thoughts as they planned their entire move... they just didn't know he was the Supreme Chancellor... but they knew about him and knew very well that he might take the opportunity to strike... So what that means is they sent Obi-Wan after a relative noob (Grievous) knowing full well that the real badass (Sidious) was still lurking about...
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
a. your problem is you proved my case... The saying and one the Jedi no doubt believe in is... A bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush. They had NO idea whether Sids would even come out of hiding AT ALL. What they did know is they needed to get rid of The General.. somebody that had been a constant thorn in their side. They needed that done and Kenobi was the man for the mission.
a. They knew Sidious was operating... they knew he might very well take that moment to strike... and indeed counted on it, hence the entire ruse to send Yoda and Obi-Wan away... and per the book and the script, the only two reasons Obi-Wan was given the assignment was because of his "cunning" and "experience" with Grievous... if it were a simple matter of sending the best swordsman, then either Yoda or Mace would have gone... they didn't, meaning that it wasn't about sending the best duelist...
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
dont' go all missing the point on me and try and twist fisto being left ehind as a sign he was better. That is a joke and about the worst proof you've posted so far.
I never said that Fisto being left behind was proof he was better... I'm simply pointing out that I could twist that just like you're twisting Obi-Wan's assignment to hunt down Grievous is proof that he's better than Fisto... either way, your argument fails.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
b. what you also forgot is that you again further proved my case and didn't even realize it. In order to support your premise and conclusion would mean the Jedi would have to send their best away in order to lure Sids out. Which is EXACTLY why Yoda and Kenobi were sent away. In order for Sdis to feel safer coming out possibly.. would mean the best aren't their by your own premise. Not even knowing where I was leading you... you walked right into it. It actually would've looked better for Fisto to get assigned a tough task in getting the General.. and being one of the best so him goin away might lure Sids out. He wasn't.. and wanna know why? Cause Kenobi is just plain better.
b. lol no. If they sent their best away... they'd have sent Mace and Yoda... per the book and the script, Obi-Wan was sent because of his cunning and experience with Grievous... not because he was the best swordsman lmao... so it's you who fell for my trap as per the norm... 😉
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Here are the facts that can't be gotten around... you say the quotes for kenobi are hyperbole
No... that would be you...
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
but fail to realize that you killed your own case.. Pretty much all of what you've presented can be considered hyperbole if we go by your own standards.
It's hyperbole because a.) you admitted it was and b.) the only way the statement isn't hyperbole is if we accept Obi-Wan is a better duelist than Yoda and Mace... If and when you get around that, we'll talk.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
That is pretty much your entire case. So if we throw out ALL the lines of narration... what are left with is... kenobi has been put in charge or more tasks..
By exposure, he was put in charge of more tasks than Mace or Yoda as well... hell, we've seen Ahsoka involved in more operations during the Clone Wars... guess she's a better fighter than Mace, Yoda, and Kit as well huh...?
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
reached a higher rank....
Both were members of the Jedi Council, both were Jedi Masters, and both were masters of their forms... the only higher rank Kenobi may have on Fisto (and that's only possible) is as a general in the army... just like Tarkin is higher rank as an admiral... guess he could outfight Fisto too lmao....
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
has beaten better people
Fisto beat Grievous whereas Grievous has beaten Obi-Wan lmao...
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
and has the better feats.
By virtue of more exposure... comparing them to their respective duels with Grievous, their accolades, their rank and station, and their endorsement from other characters... they're on par...
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
There is literally no way around those facts. Sorry bud, but it's a pretty cut and dry case. Kenobi > Fisto
It can't be too cut and dry given your propensity for lying and liberal use of red herrings... bottom line is that Fisto is a Jedi Master of the High Council, like Obi-Wan... is a "celebrated swordsman" like Obi-Wan... spanked Grievous like Obi-Wan... is fodder for Sidious like Obi-Wan... and receives generous praise from Obi-Wan himself as one of the best swordsmen ever.
But keep telling yourself that Obi-Wan is a better duelist because he may have had higher rank as a military officer (like Tarkin lmao) and Mace's debunked pep-talk lmao.