Defeating Ventress, Sith Anakin, Savage Opress. Fighting off both Maul brothers simultaneously. Outduelling Grievous with ridiculous ease in ROTS.
There's nothing Fisto has ever done to show he can compete on that level.
But like I said I admit they are high end feats, and going by average showings Fisto and Kenobi do seem relatively on par. Kenobi at his best though is a different animal.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
That's pretty stupid. Fisto fought equally equally with Ventress when she had the advantage of studying his style and exact moves. He's dominated Grievous. He's dominated AotC Kenobi while holding back.The disparity is mininal.
What's stupid is pretending Fisto has equal feats to Kenobi's high end ones. What are Fisto's high end feats that compare to Kenobi's?
And Ventress beat Fisto.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
What's stupid is pretending Fisto has equal feats to Kenobi's high end ones. What are Fisto's high end feats that compare to Kenobi's?And Ventress beat Fisto.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Kenobi alos beat Ventress. Does it mean that they didn't fight equally? Besides, as I said, she had cirsumstancial advantages. I would favor Fisto over Ventress.
Without seeing the actual fight of Ventress vs Fisto I don't know if this is a fair comparison. From what I've heard she kicked his ass fairly swiftly. In her fight with Kenobi they were somewhat equal, but Kenobi's victory indicates that he was superior.
Because she studied his moves? So what? He still has a waaay bigger advantage in experience and probably knows her fighting style a hell of a lot better than she knows his, having decades worth of training on her and knowledge of dual lightsaber combat.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Without seeing the actual fight of Ventress vs Fisto I don't know if this is a fair comparison. From what I've heard she kicked his ass fairly swiftly. In her fight with Kenobi they were [b]somewhat equal, but Kenobi's victory indicates that he was superior. [/B]
Originally posted by Nephthys
Because she studied his moves? So what? He still has a waaay bigger advantage in experience and probably knows her fighting style a hell of a lot better than she knows his, having decades worth of training on her and knowledge of dual lightsaber combat.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Defeating Ventress, Sith Anakin, Savage Opress. Fighting off both Maul brothers simultaneously. Outduelling Grievous with ridiculous ease in ROTS.There's nothing Fisto has ever done to show he can compete on that level.
But like I said I admit they are high end feats, and going by average showings Fisto and Kenobi do seem relatively on par. Kenobi at his best though is a different animal.
I admit Kenobi has some impressive feats but I see two problems with what you say about Kenobi: one is that he never defeated Opress in fact Opress was always able to overpower Kenobi except in maybe two of their 5 duels. Also, this just shows how inconsistant Kenobi is as a fighter, he has lost to Grievous before and the only reason he won so quickly in ROTS is because Grievous had just had his lungs squished by Windu. Also, Kenobi has lost to Ventress before and Fisto had to save his life. Kenobi has lost fights against Maul and then suddenly he is able to hold of maul and his brother. the fact is Kenobi is not consistant at all so Fisto COULD defeat Kenobi in his average and low showings(which happen a lot) and could still give him a VERY good fight in Kenobi's best showings but would ultimately lose. But still, we cant say Kenobi is better than Fisto because Fisto is a consistantly good fighter while Kenobi is either a complete wussy failure or a good duelist depending on the fight.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
This is an ignorant way of underselling Fisto. He has never fought anyone as powerful as Maul, Savage Anakin etc. We can only draw parallel lines betwen opponents both of them have fought (Ventress and Grievous) and Fisto has done almost as well as Kenobi have.
Tell me do you honestly believe Fisto could take down Opress?
If we want to compare them against similar opponents like you are with Kenobi and Fisto, then Opress performed far better against Ventress than Fisto. In fact he performed better against a far more powerful Ventress than the one Fisto faced. He also performed better against Sidious than Fisto did (according to Dave Filoni).
Maybe Fisto going all out and Uber is something we haven't seen, and in that state he is on a level to defeat Ventress and Opress. But the evidence of that is severely lacking.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Truth be told, Obi-Wan held her own against her, and Fisto beat Obi-Wan while holding back.
Well he beat near AOTC Jedi Knight Kenobi. Not late CW/ROTS Jedi Master and Council Member Kenobi.
Originally posted by Intrepid37How would Fisto know her fighting style? This makes no sense.
It does if you watch TCW. Luminara eyed up Ventress's style in seconds.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Tell me do you honestly believe Fisto could take down Opress?
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
If we want to compare them against similar opponents like you are with Kenobi and Fisto, then Opress performed far better against Ventress than Fisto.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
In fact he performed better against a far more powerful Ventress than the one Fisto faced. He also performed better against Sidious than Fisto did (according to Dave Filoni).
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Maybe Fisto going all out and Uber is something we haven't seen, and in that state he is on a level to defeat Ventress and Opress. But the evidence of that is severely lacking.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well he beat near AOTC Jedi Knight Kenobi. Not late CW/ROTS Jedi Master and Council Member Kenobi.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It does if you watch TCW. Luminara eyed up Ventress's style in seconds.
Originally posted by Arab Jedi
Thats the thing though, Fisto lasted longer than 5 seconds. He lasted minutes against Sidious according to the novel. I personally believe that Fisto is on par with Kenobi on the terms of saber dueling especially since Kenobi has shown that he is not a consistant fighter. However, Kenobi does have more experience and seems to be better at one on one dueling. I think it is safe to say that ROTS Kenobi vs ROTS Fisto will probably end in Kenobi winning maybe 6/10.
The movie is the higher form of canon, so yes Fisto was cut down pretty effortlessly by Sidious, and it was in seconds.
As for Maul's one on one with Sidious: Sidious murders Maul's brother right in front of him, and allows Maul to watch him die while he laughs his ass off, and then proceeds to taunt Maul about being replaced as a sith lord, which triggered Maul's hatred and rage to it's peak. Sidious then allows Maul to come at him with everything he had, and Sidious still defeated him in a little over 20 seconds, in spite of the fact that Sidious wasn't trying to kill him. Had Sidious not held back, and actually tried killing Maul, then Maul would have went down in a much shorter period of time. That's why in some vs. forums you are recommended to specify whether or not the character is blood lusted (which means out for the kill), and Maul's fight with Sidious, he was blood lusted, whereas Sidious was not. So no, you can't compare his performance against Sidious to Fisto's.
The best way to compare Fisto to Kenobi, is by comparing their accolades (which Fisto has the better accolades, IMO [being considered by multiple jedi as one of the greatest swordsman the order has ever produced, and being called a celebrated swordsmaster in The Complete Visual Dictionary]) and their respective performances against Grievous. Sorry but Kenobi's consistent struggling against Grievous does not suggest he is better than Fisto, who casually outduelled the same cyborg without any sign of struggling. If fact, Fisto was actually taunting Grievous, which seems to suggest that he didn't find Grievous to be much of a threat at all until Grievous relied on help from magnaguards, while on the other hand, we have Kenobi fleeing from Grievous on more than one occasion. If it weren't for Kenobi's final fight with Grievous, which is the one and only fight he ever actually handily defeated him, I would actually consider Fisto as the better duelist, TBH.
People just don't like to accept the fact that Sidious is one of the most overwhelming saber duelists in the mythos, and that very few can contend with him on any level of combat, so they take their frustration out on the Sidious fans, as if we made Sidious that way. Someone like Kenobi wouldn't stand a chance against him even in a pure saber duel. Sidious is a lot stronger, a lot faster, and a lot more skilled (mastery of every form); he'd make very quick work of Kenobi and Maul. Hell, he already made quick work of Maul while holding back.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
What are Kenobi's ''high end feats'' to be exact?
None that actually suggests he is better than Fisto. Yeah, maybe Fisto has never defeated Ventress, but he was also never owned by her the way Kenobi has been owned by her, despite Kenobi having help from Anakin on one occasion. The only other feats people keep bringing up are opponents Kenobi has fought that Fisto hasn't. If any of them make Kenobi a better fighter, then certainly he shouldn't have consistently struggled against Grievous, he should have handled Grievous with greater ease than Fisto has (which he never has, although he's had numerous tries).
You were correct. Now, the scene is obviously contradicted by the movie, but it's worth noting.
Originally posted by Revenge of the Sith
Obi-Wan nodded, but he still couldn't meet the gaze of the ancient Master. "I'll take Palpatine.""Strong enough to face Lord Sidious, you will never be. Die you will, and painfully."
"Don't make me kill Anakin," he said. "He's like my brother, Master."
"The boy you trained, gone he is-twisted by the dark side. Consumed by Darth Vader. Out of this misery, you must put him. To visit our new Emperor, my job will be."
Now Obi-Wan did face him. "Palpatine faced Mace and Agen and Kit and Saesee-four of the greatest swordsmen our Order has ever produced. By himself. Even both of us together wouldn't have a chance."
"True," Yoda said. "But both of us apart, a chance we might create . . ."
The statement does not make Fisto a superior swordsman, or even an equal in my opinion, but it just furthers the theory that Fisto would put up a very good fight.
Where on God's green earth did this notion of Fisto having more accolades than Kenobi come from? Fisto being a council member longer and being in the order longer and thus having a higher rank before Kenobi.. doesn't mean he has more accolades. Ventress DOMINATED him with relative ease. Kenobi has been defeated as well but he's also beat her with ease. Fisto would have zero chance against Anakin.. and Kenobi beat anakin. Are they pretty close in a saber duel.. sure they are... is kenobi still superior.. yes Ohhh and Kenobi most certainly would last longer against Sids than Fisto did.