Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
i agree.. i mean how are people going to care for these random people who all of a sudden come out of the woodwork and display powers/abilities
Most of DC's characters' origins are relatively simple. You don't really need to explain how Wonder Woman and Aquaman got their powers. The Flash and Green Lantern need it, sure. But the Flash tv show and the old GL have already shown how it they got their powers.
Originally posted by Golgo13
Because there is no right formula. We can agree to disagree til the cows come home, but we won't know if it's a failure until the films come out. I'm in the boat by them not copying Marvel.Tons of things are risks. A lot of movie studios in the past few years has had many bombs.
you really think one movie can tell the origins of the 3-4 superheroes that will most likely be in the league, AND give everyone sufficient screentime?
Originally posted by ares834
That's the thing, they don't need to give them origins.
Skipping the origins willl reduce the build up and make it less epic. It also forces the writers to spend more time giving the unknown characters a required back story instead of getting into the main part of the story like Avengers did. Watchmen and X-Men are poor comparisons, because those franchises' origins don't depend on characters that already have their own franchise. Besides, what's the rush to see a Justice League you don't know? Origins become stale for characters that already have 2 or more reboots under them, not for characters that never had them. Wonder Woman, Aqua Man, and Flash still haven't had their time to shine on the big screen.
Of course I could be wrong and the movie could be amazing, but why rush it?
Originally posted by Femi32
Skipping the origins willl reduce the build up and make it less epic. It also forces the writers to spend more time giving the unknown characters a required back story instead of getting into the main part of the story like Avengers did. Watchmen and X-Men are poor comparisons, because those franchises' origins don't depend on characters that already have their own franchise. Besides, what's the rush to see a Justice League you don't know? Origins become stale for characters that already have 2 or more reboots under them, not for characters that never had them. Wonder Woman, Aqua Man, and Flash still haven't had their time to shine on the big screen.Of course I could be wrong and the movie could be amazing, but why rush it?
👆
Originally posted by Golgo13
Kevin T already said more film series are going to be announced several weeks ago. I remember you saying a JL movie wouldn't happen and that MOS wouldn't start a cinematic universe. Yet, here we are. 😉
...Well, it's been several weeks. What are the other films, with directors and stars attached?
Saying we're looking at it, or we're 'warm to the idea' (like the recent article says about a solo Wonder Woman movie) - that's not news. It's more posturing.
What I said about Justice League two years ago, is that there was no way they were going to have it out by their announced date of summer 2015, despite their enthusiastic press releases about the script being written by the guy who did The Gangster Squad (apparently adapting The Great Darkness Saga.) It proved to be nothing more than them trying to upstage Marvel's Avengers, and the fact Marvel announced Avengers 2 would be out by May 2015.
So, hah - I Was Right. 😉
As far as MOS starting a shared cinematic universe, I was just reporting the feelings of the man they hired to godfather the film, Christopher Nolan. He thought having Superman & Batman share the same universe would rob them of their uniqueness. And there is nothing in MOS that comes from outside the central Superman mythos; the rumours that Harry Lennix was J'onn J'onnz in disguise didn't prove to be true. They were still playing it safe right to the end of the film.
DC & Warners repeatedly give a good impression of all oars not pulling in the same direction, behind the scenes. The additional ten month delay to 2016 that Batman vs. Superman got, AFTER casting the major principals (Affleck and Gadot) and shooting some early footage, was just the latest example.
Originally posted by Femi32
Skipping the origins willl reduce the build up and make it less epic. It also forces the writers to spend more time giving the unknown characters a required back story instead of getting into the main part of the story like Avengers did. Watchmen and X-Men are poor comparisons, because those franchises' origins don't depend on characters that already have their own franchise. Besides, what's the rush to see a Justice League you don't know? Origins become stale for characters that already have 2 or more reboots under them, not for characters that never had them. Wonder Woman, Aqua Man, and Flash still haven't had their time to shine on the big screen.Of course I could be wrong and the movie could be amazing, but why rush it?
I don't want any more origin films. I'm sick of them. I also fail to see why they need to have solo films prior to the JL. Sure, it won't have the euphoric sense of seeing it all come together like what happened near the end of Avengers, but the JL was never going to be able to match that as it has already been done. So why try to do so? I'd rather they do something different, something unique and thankfully that's what they are doing.
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Here is what a typical person knows about the JLSuperman
Batman
The girl
The guy who talks to fish
Ryan Renolds low showing
The fast guy.
The vast majority of people are going to know who Wonder Woman and likely even Aquaman are. Flash and Green Lantern are the less well known, however, Flash will have a television series and GL already has had a movie. People give the GA far too little credit, they will be fine seeing it.
Originally posted by roughrider
...Well, it's been several weeks. What are the other films, with directors and stars attached?
Saying we're looking at it, or we're 'warm to the idea' (like the recent article says about a solo Wonder Woman movie) - that's not news. It's more posturing.What I said about Justice League two years ago, is that there was no way they were going to have it out by their announced date of summer 2015, despite their enthusiastic press releases about the script being written by the guy who did The Gangster Squad (apparently adapting The Great Darkness Saga.) It proved to be nothing more than them trying to upstage Marvel's Avengers, and the fact Marvel announced Avengers 2 would be out by May 2015.
So, hah - I Was Right. 😉As far as MOS starting a shared cinematic universe, I was just reporting the feelings of the man they hired to godfather the film, Christopher Nolan. He thought having Superman & Batman share the same universe would rob them of their uniqueness. And there is nothing in MOS that comes from outside the central Superman mythos; the rumours that Harry Lennix was J'onn J'onnz in disguise didn't prove to be true. They were still playing it safe right to the end of the film.
DC & Warners repeatedly give a good impression of all oars not pulling in the same direction, behind the scenes. The additional ten month delay to 2016 that Batman vs. Superman got, AFTER casting the major principals (Affleck and Gadot) and shooting some early footage, was just the latest example.
He just said they would be announced soon. Most speculate at Comic-Con.
As for the delay, this was because they were getting all the actors on board. It had nothing to do with a tug of war you were claiming. Also, this will also be shot back to back the JL movie.
Originally posted by Golgo13
John Campea says it perfectly. There is no need to do solo movies before the JL movie.
Well, they make it sound really simple.
🙄 If the film can be so easily made, why take this long to do it?
It's revealing in their talk about how all the other heroes can just be bit players in the next film, and Batman & Superman can do the dramatic heavy lifting. Doesn't that sum up the problem DC created for itself decades ago? Pumping the tires and importance of Batman & Superman over all the other DC heroes, making them more important. Contrast that approach with Marvel - decades ago, they made their unified universe the most important aspect of their reality. Cap is very important symbolically, but they don't make their universe dependent on him like they do with Superman. DC has worked for years to make their universe a more unified one like Marvel's, but they still fall back into making Clark & Bruce bigger and more important than the rest.
Four of the Avengers got solo films before the big team up, and the others - Nick Fury, Black Widow and Hawkeye - got introduced as important supporting characters in those films first. I would have liked a solo film for Wonder Woman (out of respect for Diana), but short of that the next film being primarily about the JL holy trinity meeting for the first time.
Now; as far as the panel's suspicion that the delay to 2016 is so Zack Snyder can shoot Batman vs. Superman back to back with Justice League( so it can come out in 2017) I have the following list:
Back To The Future Part II (1989)
Back To The Future Part III (1990)
The Matrix Reloaded (2003)
The Matrix Revolutions (2003)
Pirates Of The Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (2006)
Pirates Of The Caribbean: At World's End (2007)
All these sequel films were shot back to back, all had the same director, and all of them coming out years after the first one in the series got released.
...And all of them got unfavorably compared to the first film in the series. Some got received with outright hostility by the fans & critics, no matter the box office numbers.
So, I've long thought shooting direct sequels back to back doesn't work, at least artistically. Shooting back to back only works if you're willing to do it right from the beginning of the series, like Peter Jackson's LOTR and Hobbit series (a bigger risk, but if the first film works great, you know the rest will will be as well), and the Harry Potter series. The other way it works is if you have different filmmaking crews working on the series (Kenneth Branagh's Thor, Joe Johnston's Captain America, and Joss Whedon's The Avengers all come out in a period of one year's time) with those crews working under a braintrust that assures continuity.
DC & Warners seem to be doing neither, in their approach to the next two films.
😬
Originally posted by roughrider
Now; as far as the panel's suspicion that the delay to 2016 is so Zack Snyder can shoot Batman vs. Superman back to back with Justice League( so it can come out in 2017) I have the following list:Back To The Future Part II (1989)
Back To The Future Part III (1990)The Matrix Reloaded (2003)
The Matrix Revolutions (2003)Pirates Of The Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (2006)
Pirates Of The Caribbean: At World's End (2007)All these sequel films were shot back to back, all had the same director, and all of them coming out years after the first one in the series got released.
...And all of them got unfavorably compared to the first film in the series. Some got received with outright hostility by the fans & critics, no matter the box office numbers.
So, I've long thought shooting direct sequels back to back doesn't work, at least artistically. Shooting back to back only works if you're willing to do it right from the beginning of the series, like Peter Jackson's LOTR and Hobbit series (a bigger risk, but if the first film works great, you know the rest will will be as well), and the Harry Potter series. The other way it works is if you have different filmmaking crews working on the series (Kenneth Branagh's Thor, Joe Johnston's Captain America, and Joss Whedon's The Avengers all come out in a period of one year's time) with those crews working under a braintrust that assures continuity.
DC & Warners seem to be doing neither, in their approach to the next two films.
😬
Jeez that's a reach.
Plus, the Harry Potter films weren't shot back to back. Only the two Deathly Hallows films were and those are considered two of the best HP films.
Originally posted by ares834
Most of DC's characters' origins are relatively simple. You don't really need to explain how Wonder Woman and Aquaman got their powers. The Flash and Green Lantern need it, sure. But the Flash tv show and the old GL have already shown how it they got their powers.
since this has well over a $250 million budget nothing will be small.. the flash will need it unless they connect to the tv show and so far i haven't heard anything.. as for green lantern , well a new origin is needed especially since it may not be hal ..
Originally posted by ares834
That's the thing, they don't need to give them origins.
yes they do, only people who read the comic book know of them, a whole helluva lot of the general public don;t know who aquaman is, or the flash etc..
Originally posted by Femi32
Skipping the origins willl reduce the build up and make it less epic. It also forces the writers to spend more time giving the unknown characters a required back story instead of getting into the main part of the story like Avengers did. Watchmen and X-Men are poor comparisons, because those franchises' origins don't depend on characters that already have their own franchise. Besides, what's the rush to see a Justice League you don't know? Origins become stale for characters that already have 2 or more reboots under them, not for characters that never had them. Wonder Woman, Aqua Man, and Flash still haven't had their time to shine on the big screen.Of course I could be wrong and the movie could be amazing, but why rush it?
well said
Originally posted by roughrider
Well, they make it sound really simple.
🙄 If the film can be so easily made, why take this long to do it?It's revealing in their talk about how all the other heroes can just be bit players in the next film, and Batman & Superman can do the dramatic heavy lifting. Doesn't that sum up the problem DC created for itself decades ago? Pumping the tires and importance of Batman & Superman over all the other DC heroes, making them more important. Contrast that approach with Marvel - decades ago, they made their unified universe the most important aspect of their reality. Cap is very important symbolically, but they don't make their universe dependent on him like they do with Superman. DC has worked for years to make their universe a more unified one like Marvel's, but they still fall back into making Clark & Bruce bigger and more important than the rest.
Four of the Avengers got solo films before the big team up, and the others - Nick Fury, Black Widow and Hawkeye - got introduced as important supporting characters in those films first. I would have liked a solo film for Wonder Woman (out of respect for Diana), but short of that the next film being primarily about the JL holy trinity meeting for the first time.
Now; as far as the panel's suspicion that the delay to 2016 is so Zack Snyder can shoot Batman vs. Superman back to back with Justice League( so it can come out in 2017) I have the following list:
Back To The Future Part II (1989)
Back To The Future Part III (1990)The Matrix Reloaded (2003)
The Matrix Revolutions (2003)Pirates Of The Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (2006)
Pirates Of The Caribbean: At World's End (2007)All these sequel films were shot back to back, all had the same director, and all of them coming out years after the first one in the series got released.
...And all of them got unfavorably compared to the first film in the series. Some got received with outright hostility by the fans & critics, no matter the box office numbers.
So, I've long thought shooting direct sequels back to back doesn't work, at least artistically. Shooting back to back only works if you're willing to do it right from the beginning of the series, like Peter Jackson's LOTR and Hobbit series (a bigger risk, but if the first film works great, you know the rest will will be as well), and the Harry Potter series. The other way it works is if you have different filmmaking crews working on the series (Kenneth Branagh's Thor, Joe Johnston's Captain America, and Joss Whedon's The Avengers all come out in a period of one year's time) with those crews working under a braintrust that assures continuity.
DC & Warners seem to be doing neither, in their approach to the next two films.
😬
well said
Originally posted by ares834
Jeez that's a reach.Plus, the Harry Potter films weren't shot back to back. Only the two Deathly Hallows films were and those are considered two of the best HP films.
Chris Columbus was already shooting the second Harry Potter film when the first one came out. There was a conscious plan to get the films out to mirror every individual school year, so there was no sitting back for a breather then getting the next film out in 2-3 years time. By the time the series wrapped, they have released 8 films in a 9 1/2 year time span. They got a freight train of production started at the beginning, and kept it going to the end.