Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I'm still confused about the reactions. Are the problems with the story itself or the the tone of the movie and if its the latter is it due to execution? Not liking this flick simply for being dark and grimm is kind of a double-standard considering other projects release with similar tones don't get this kind of flack: unless of course the tone of BvS is actively harming the movie.

Also where did golgo go? With all the PR that was going on in this thread would figure that there would be something to follow up on it.

From the video reviews I've watched it's a mix of both. The story, motivations, and actions of the characters in the story don't make sense for the most part due to some of the sequencing of the film, and then on top of that the tone of everything and everyone is dark and grim and there's not enough contrast to justify a lot of the conflict in the eyes of some critics.

I'm just going to judge it for myself because I don't mind dark or grim. I do want a well thought out plot and story progression though.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka

Also where did golgo go?.

But to answer the bulk of your question here are the main problems I've seen listed.

1. The tone is too dark. Not that it's dark. It's TOO dark.
2.

Spoiler:
Batman and Superman are both killers.

EDIT: You know, I'm seriously considering watching this tomorrow night now...I'm curious to see just who to believe...

Originally posted by MF DELPH
I'm hoping I like it when I go to see it on Saturday, but some of the reviews (now Collider and some other related affiliates. Waiting on Screen Junkies) that I trust have been mixed (6-7/10) to bad (2/5 to 5/10). A lot of people seem to be hung up on the fact that the film is seemingly humorless and lacks 'fun' which I don't have an issue with. The Raid didn't have humor pretty much at all and it was amazing and pretty much universally praised. I think people may be holding DC's film to a bad standard that all superhero films need to be family friendly, but the plot/story complaints are a bit worrisome.

Ultimately there's space on the scale between "serious and mature tones" and "joyless". If the tone of BvS is similar to that of MoS, the issue I foresee it having is that its "grittiness" manifests itself in constant glowering and moping from all the characters, with a pitch-black filter on everything and needless melodrama for it's own sake. That isn't "mature", it's just try-hard and self-indulgent. A film's tone should be the consequence of its plot; The Raid has a dark tone because it's a story about brutal and compassionless third-world mobsters ****ing each other over, Watchmen has a dark tone because it's plot is about rape and moral ambiguity and all the worst aspects of human nature.

MoS (and likely this film) on the other hand, are dark for pretty much no reason other than because the people in charge of making them decided that since the Nolan batflicks were successful, all of their films need to be as depressing as possible regardless of what the story is actually about. There's a disingenuousness to Snyder's film-making that makes the entire tone of his Superman films feel vapid and self-aggrandizing.

DC isn't the only one guilty of this btw. Age of Ultron was dogshit and a large portion of that is due to how much Disney!Marvel has doubled-down on the comedy.

edit- This came off a lot more ranty than I had intended. I don't actually disagree with anything you said (I don't mind dark and gritty either, when it fits). I guess this should just be considered my musings on why the DCU's particular brand of dark and gritty doesn't seem to be resonating with audiences.

I hope the spoilers are false because if true it means Snyder is a bigger retard than the haters give him credit for. 😬

Originally posted by Tzeentch

DC isn't the only one guilty of this btw. Age of Ultron was dogshit and a large portion of that is due to how much Disney!Marvel has doubled-down on the comedy.

Does "dogshit" have a non-arbitrary definition that I wasn't aware of?

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Does "dogshit" have a non-arbitrary definition that I wasn't aware of?

Originally posted by Firefly218
I tend to trust particular critics more than the GA when managing my expectations

All I'm saying is critics are just a few people really, whilst the GA is like everyone else.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Sure, if you only care that the tone fits one of the 5 or so characters. other people would like to have elements in the movie that fits their favorite characters.

The film is called Batman V Superman. So the tone fits 1 of the 2 main characters. And the more popular one at that. And to top it all, the film is specifically about Batman trying to take down Superman. You think anything but a serious tone would suit that?

If the tone varied to meet each character, then the criticism would be the movie's tone is all over the place aka The Amazing Spider-Man 2. In fact Justice League which obviously will be about 5/6 different characters has already been confirmed to be much lighter in tone.

A film has to pick a tone that suits it.

So unless the tone just seems out of place in the film itself, I don't buy this criticism of "Oh it's too dark!" Look at TDK and Netflix Daredevil. Doubt this movie will get darker than those.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb

Yah I had to finally put him on ignore. He just kept saying stuff about me that wasn't true. Meh, good riddance.

LOL @ CPT and Quanchi crying together over me.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
All I'm saying is critics are just a few people really, whilst the GA is like everyone else.

Yeah, critics doesn't always = audiences. We'll see how good the legs are for this. This might drop pretty big the second weekend, probably due to it being VERY dark like a lot are saying or because of bad WOM.

Originally posted by Zack M
Yeah, critics doesn't always = audiences. We'll see how good the legs are for this. This might drop pretty big the second weekend, probably due to it being VERY dark like a lot are saying or because of bad WOM.

Yeah Problem with it being too dark is then it's not as family friendly. If it really is THAT Dark (like Watchmen dark), then that would be a mistake to get box office in.

Especially seen as these 2 Icons would naturally draw in a family audience.

Not surprised with many of the reviews, these movies are generally only as good as their villains and Eisenberg-Lex looked awful from day one, let alone the his ridiculous preview showings, so I can definitely see him bringing this film down several notches singlehandedly.

But I also love Watchmen and that wasn't liked all that much by critics nor did it make a whole lot of money, so hopefully this does turn out to be another Watchmen for me, personally.

Well the wait will be over tomorrow so all those fanboys of DC are about to come home to roost. Let's see if your film delivers and whow as right myself or you toads.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah Problem with it being too dark is then it's not as family friendly. If it really is THAT Dark (like Watchmen dark), then that would be a mistake to get box office in.

Especially seen as these 2 Icons would naturally draw in a family audience.

In regards to Batman, "dark" sells. Nolan's films weren't family orientated all too much, sure they had PG-13 ratings, but they weren't aimed at the younger kids with the tone of the films. Teen and up was the likely target. Even Burton's Batman flicks has that aspect and those were a hit, while the following neon lights and candycane goofy nonsense of Forever and B&R were reviled by most.

Personally, I'm hoping Synder and Affleck bring me a live version of Miller's TDKR Batman, which was dark, gritty and violent. I'm counting on this being the highlight of the film.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah Problem with it being too dark is then it's not as family friendly. If it really is THAT Dark (like Watchmen dark), then that would be a mistake to get box office in.

Especially seen as these 2 Icons would naturally draw in a family audience.

Joe Shmoes says there is nothing there for children.

Would $200M-$230M be considered a failure? That's still a really good number for an opening weekend.

I just hope it out performs Deadpool. If not the Fan Wars will never end.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Would $200M-$230M be considered a failure? That's still a really good number for an opening weekend.

I just hope it out performs Deadpool. If not the Fan Wars will never end.

Considering the top three OW range for $207m to $247m, anything over $200m would be smashing. Source

Deadpool is a runaway success; that film is as about as far from "flopping" as one can get. But who knows. Personally I can see it doing more than $132m.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Would $200M-$230M be considered a failure? That's still a really good number for an opening weekend.

I just hope it out performs Deadpool. If not the Fan Wars will never end.

No. Anything over 200+ would be great. Only three films have managed to do that.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Would $200M-$230M be considered a failure? That's still a really good number for an opening weekend.

I just hope it out performs Deadpool. If not the Fan Wars will never end.

200 isn't in the cards and it doesn't need that OW. It's not the OW that matters, it's where it eventually ends up. If there is bad WOM, then hopefully it get's to 350 domestic, which would still be an increase. Around 900 WW.