Originally posted by Estacado
👆
Batman usingSpoiler:was lame imo....
guns
It's the fans' fault at the end of the day. They go on and on about how great Miller was with DKR and the like, and then they get mad when they use that Batman on-screen. I know it's not everyone, but there's a large portion of hypocrisy involved imo.
Originally posted by Lestov16
That's the thing with TDK, TDKR, the MCU films, and this movie. The TDK and BvS are focused on exploring the philosophical concepts behind the heroes, whereas TDKR and the MCU are just concerned with giving you your standard hero vs villain popcorn flick.
Disagree. The Nolan films and BvS are Blockbuster popcorn flicks. As much as you are trying to say they are some form of deep art-house films. They are in fact 100% popcorn blockbuster movies.
The Marvel movies had build up to their team-up movies. They did explore what makes the individual character tick. Even though they sometimes did it with lightheartedness (humor=bad right?).
You actually get to know the characters and what motivations they have . They were not just shoved in your face just for the sake of having a team-up movie as fast as possible. All the while having a faux emotion and themes.
Again, you're looking at this through the preconceived expectations of what you think a comic book movie should be. Marvel and DC tell different stories. Marvel takes stories about superheroes and look at them as flawed men granted great powers and troubled about what to do with it, whereas DC take the grandiose approach and look at superheroes as gods, anthropomorphic personifications of abstract concepts and ideals of which they hold unflinching conviction, and the effect they have on public perception. Both stories are equally interesting, but it seems the MCU has caused bias of one over another. This is my complaint with the criticism of this movie.
Originally posted by Lestov16
Well yeah. Lois and Clark in this felt far more natural and less forced and annoying than Banner and Natasha. And I thought Lex was a better villain than Ultron or Kidritch.
Is it not possible that your greater enjoyment of this movie has made you more forgiving of his flaws?
Speaking of people complaining about it being too dark:
"The Flash / Supergirl crossover is a breath of fresh air coming off the doom and gloom of BvS" - IGN
Originally posted by -Pr-
It's the fans' fault at the end of the day. They go on and on about how great Miller was with DKR and the like, and then they get mad when they use that Batman on-screen. I know it's not everyone, but there's a large portion of hypocrisy involved imo.
Miller's Batman has forbidden Mutants/Sons of Batman to use guns. Or was that in the movie only?
Originally posted by Silent Master
Is it not possible that your greater enjoyment of this movie has made you more forgiving of his flaws?
I like I said, it's not flawless. Matter of fact I gave a good in depth description of what I thought was flawed. It's just that IM3 and AOU are far far far worse than this and somehow have better reviews.
Those films have far worse plots and characters. Watching Lois uncover a conspiracy is better than watching a forced Banner Natasha romance at Hawkeye's happy house or Tony dicking around with small town kids. Lex's domestic abuse-caused misotheism makes more sense than Ultron wanting to end the world because he was on the internet for two minutes, or Killian wanting revenge on Tony for not meeting him that one time way back. Lex was a far better and more thematically suitable villain and less annoying than the Raymond Reddington Ripoff Robot or forgettable and lame ass Fake Mandarin. Doomsday was a far scarier threat than Ultronageddon. And people who say the BvS fight in this was contrived seem to forget the Hulkbuster fight, which was entirely pointless to the film's narrative other than fanboy service, unlike here, where as I stated earlier they have good reasons for going at each other. At no point are Bats or Supes stupid on the level of "Cant protect my armored house" Tony.
And that's just a few of many ways this film is far better than those films yet is unfairly getting lower reviews than them.
I think people are overreacting to the movie's flaws. It's just another popcorn movie, one with a surprisingly dark tone to it. It shouldn't be so difficult to be entertained and yet people expect so much. It's just depressing to me not only because of the amount of people who don't like it, but the amount of people who refuse to like both it and Marvel's movies as a whole. I don't think it's a Marvel conspiracy or anything. I just don't understand why people think it's as bad as it is. Agreeing to disagreeing is the most anyone should do. It doesn't have to be a pissing contest.
Personally, I liked it and can still see its flaws. The writing, pacing, and some of the dialogue was off. I felt that Lois Lane and Martha Kent were misused as the only other major female characters besides Wonder Woman herself. This version of Lex Luthor was waaaay too over-the-top and weird. He should have been put in Arkham Asylum or something. I was under the impression that he' a more subdued villain than this. It also was a little too dark tonally because it never any of Superman's lighter side - something even Man of Steel did. Finally, it just didn't focus enough on the whole "Batman vs Superman" premise that is the very title of the movie.
That said, I was still satisfied overall because of the entertainment factor. It was so badass. They gave us the perfect version of Batman, more true to the comics than any other film incarnation of him. He's the closest thing we'll ever get to a live-action Frank Miller Batman. I appreciated the fight scenes, the darkness, the emotion, the political elements, and the attempt to make the film feel more like our world by having real-life celebrities talk about Superman. I loved the Justice League cameos and all the hints of a much bigger universe. Wonder Woman was cool, although I'm not entirely sold on Gal Gadot yet. The performances themselves are another highlight, given what the actors had to work with. Overall, it just offers a much different experience from the average lighter Marvel film.
The movie was pure fan service. I wish it strove to be more than that though. I hope that the R-rated version with all the deleted footage will redeem it.Despite the film's length, it still needed more story. A better cut of this movie can be made.
I have hope for Justice League because Chris Terrio is writing the script himself without any influence from David S. Goyer. If they completely tossed out Goyer's draft for BvS and had Terrio write it from scratch, it could have been much better. I also hope that Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman succeed where BvS and MoS failed. These films could get so much more than mixed reviews.
Please tell me Lestov16 and myself are not the only ones on KMC who liked the movie. No one ever said it was perfect and perfection is non-existent when it comes to any movie. I happen to like Fox-Men and Marvel as well. I want all three cinematic universes to succeed. I prefer the DC Extended Universe because it strives to be something different, a little edgier. The DCEU has potential and I don't want it to end before it fully started. Warner Bros definitely need to take both fan and critic concerns seriously from here on.
Originally posted by Lestov16You arms must be tired from the amount of reaching you're doing. "Unfairly getting lower scores"? 😆
And that's just a few of many ways this film is far better than those films yet is unfairly getting lower reviews than them.
It's getting lower scores because the critics see the inconsistencies and plot holes. The characters don't have good motivations for their actions. Period. Nothing in this movie is earned. Everything happens at such a blistering pace because:
A) They're trying to fit 3 stories into 1
B) They're racing to establish their universe to catch Marvel.
Neither one of those are a good idea. It's one of the big problems with the film; among many, many others. It's earned the bad scores.