Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Originally posted by -Pr-
Serenity had an entire season to build upon and develop the characters. Guardians worked because none of those characters bar maybe Star-Lord would be expected to carry a movie by their lonesome. It's a team that works best when developed together.

Originally posted by Firefly218
But you CAN jump straight into ensemble movies. Guardians of the Galaxy did it beautifuly. My third favorite movie of all time Serenity did it brilliantly. Just because BvS wasn't good doesn't mean it couldn't have been done. Otherwise I agree on the solo films part.

Guardians of the Galaxy is an ensemble franchise, just like X-Men with common denominators in their origins. Each JL member has their own origin and offers a different look of the world (science fiction, magic and realms, underwater, space, Street conflicts, etc.).

Rushing to JL was already a big mistake. BvS suffered because of it and JL will too if WB doesn't give us enough movies to get to it.

Originally posted by Firefly218
When I first saw Serenity a long time ago I didn't even know what Firefly was, but I still became enamored with the characters and hooked into the story. A good ensemble is a good ensemble, doesn't matter how popular the characters were.

Serenity didn't develop many of the characters at all, though. Firefly did that.

Even for the JL, though, which wouldn't have built up the characters properly first?

Originally posted by Femi32
Guardians of the Galaxy is an ensemble franchise, just like X-Men with common denominators in their origins. Each JL member has their own origin and offers a different look of the world (science fiction, magic and realms, underwater, space, Street conflicts, etc.).

Rushing to JL was already a big mistake. BvS suffered because of it and JL will too if WB doesn't give us enough movies to get to it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Serenity didn't develop many of the characters at all, though. Firefly did that.

Even for the JL, though, which wouldn't have built up the characters properly first?

Serenity did develop the characters as much as it could in the allotted time, but that's not the point. Development isn't a requirement for good quality ensemble films. The first Avengers had almost no character development but people who never saw the previous solo films still loved it. You don't necessarily need to go into a movie knowing everything about every character and what they've been through and what's special about them, sometimes there's more intrigue.

Originally posted by Firefly218
It can't be impossible to make a good quality ensemble flick. You don't necessarily need to show the back stories of every character, you can simply hint at them. You can establish their respective personalities and relationships by the conversations they have. Maybe they already know each other in this universe and have fought side by side before. Ensemble is just about people coming together, that can be done it's not impossible.

Serenity did develop the characters as much as it could in the allotted time, but that's not the point. Development isn't a requirement for good quality ensemble films. The first Avengers had almost no character development but people who never saw the previous solo films still loved it. You don't necessarily need to go into a movie knowing everything about every character and what they've been through and what's special about them, sometimes there's more intrigue.

It's not impossible, but why take the shortcut and kill the hype? Whatever exampe you give for successful ensemble movies will fall into the same category I already described. There are too many varying aspects with each main JL member to shortcut their origins to the general audience.

It's one thing when every character is based on science fiction. It's another to have two movies on one science fiction character and then throw in some magical person in the 3rd doing magical things, further stretching the suspension of disbelief without explaining it long enough, then adding someone else who stretches the science fiction aspect of it even further. If you are a part of the general audience, you will get confused. Its easy for us, because we know the source material. They dont. How many popular non-comic properties are out there that have science fiction and magic with ensemble characters?

I doubt Avengers would be as good or well liked if they didn't make all those solo films outside of Iron Man.

can someone ask Hack Snyder how did Supes know Batman was Bruce Wayne if Supes doesn't use x ray vision???

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman_vs_superman/zack-snyder-explains-supermans-reluctance-to-utilize-super-a137234

Originally posted by Firefly218
Serenity did develop the characters as much as it could in the allotted time, but that's not the point. Development isn't a requirement for good quality ensemble films. The first Avengers had almost no character development but people who never saw the previous solo films still loved it. You don't necessarily need to go into a movie knowing everything about every character and what they've been through and what's special about them, sometimes there's more intrigue.

It's not a requirement if the characters have already been fleshed out. Otherwise it is, imo.

Serenity only developed River, and got Simon and Kaylee together.

Mal, Jayne, Book, Kaylee, Morena Baccarin's character I can never remember, Wash, Wash's wife that's in Suits now; they didn't develop. But they didn't need to, because they'd already been shown to be rounded and developed in the show. Characters people identify with are always better when they've been given time to develop and grow.

Avengers was enjoyed by the general public because a lot of them had seen the previous movies like Iron Man, Thor, Hulk etc. They'd had those movies. The Justice League won't have that.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
can someone ask Hack Snyder how did Supes know Batman was Bruce Wayne if Supes doesn't use x ray vision???

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman_vs_superman/zack-snyder-explains-supermans-reluctance-to-utilize-super-a137234

he used his hearing.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04/08/warner-bros-projected-to-earn-less-from-batman-v-superman-than-it-did-from-man-of-steel

Pitiful.

MoS was amazing not just as a superhero film, but as a film, period. Aside from the wanton destruction of the city that he had just saved, and yes, the trucker's ride--which I'm assuming was the director decided Clark needed to be a little more flawed in his search for who he was going to be--it was really well done.

There should have been a MoS 2, and a smoother intro into this film, if they insisted on having it. They could have taken any mediocre film student and given him the trimmings that this film had and come up with something better from everything I'm reading. There are some things that you absolutely must get right, and when you don't you get messes like this and Lee's version of Hulk.

Here's to better times in the future.

Originally posted by quanchi112
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04/08/warner-bros-projected-to-earn-less-from-batman-v-superman-than-it-did-from-man-of-steel

Pitiful.

Quite frankly, MoS was a much better movie than this.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
MoS was amazing not just as a superhero film, but as a film, period. Aside from the wanton destruction of the city that he had just saved, and yes, the trucker's ride--which I'm assuming was the director decided Clark needed to be a little more flawed in his search for who he was going to be--it was really well done.

There should have been a MoS 2, and a smoother intro into this film, if they insisted on having it. They could have taken any mediocre film student and given him the trimmings that this film had and come up with something better from everything I'm reading. There are some things that you absolutely must get right, and when you don't you get messes like this and Lee's version of Hulk.

Here's to better times in the future.

I know people are saying that this movie had the best Batman to date, but the more I think about it the more I realize that Batman was an absolute phaggot. They call that Batman?

brb never use stealth, just explode in balls out and punch people like Superman
brb never does legit detective work
brb phucking idiot outsmarted by every character in the entire movie
brb psychopath going around murdering people and blowing up shit no phucks given, but Superman is a menace

Whoever said it was Punisher v Superman got it right.

Says more about today's society then it does the comics and movies

Originally posted by Firefly218
But you CAN jump straight into ensemble movies. Guardians of the Galaxy did it beautifuly. My third favorite movie of all time Serenity did it brilliantly. Just because BvS wasn't good doesn't mean it couldn't have been done. Otherwise I agree on the solo films part.

Firstly I liked BvS. But I do think a lot of people would have appreciated it more if the back story was properly developed in solo Batman and WW movies. A lot of the build up in this film could have been left out. If you had a MOS sequel on top then

Spoiler:
Superman's death

Secondly this isn't just an ensemble franchise like X-Men or GOTG, where everyone's a mutant, or everyone's an alien. This is a "multi-franchise" ensemble movie, where every character has a completely unrelated origin to their superpowers, and is a separate franchise on their own. You need to properly develop that to have them in the same Universe.

Heck even the JL cartoon had more build up than these films. They had a solo Batman and solo Superman series first, before a Batman/Superman event, and they even introduced Flash and Green Lantern in full episodes of Superman before jumping into JL. And that was a Shared Cartoon Universe. But they can't be bothered to give the shared film Universe the same respect.

We've argued this in the past, but they've done it the jumping in way now, and there's simply not enough hype for JL. Nor will the final product be appreciated as much as it could have been, just like with BvS. I mean they're going to have to waste time in JL going into Aquaman and Flash's and Cyborg's background/origin. Screw that.

Originally posted by Robtard
You can not like the way it was done; that's fine. I didn't particularly like the tornado scene either, but the point was to illustrate what we're directly talking about, Jonathan and Martha Kent care about Clark's safety above and beyond anything else, ie they're parents in every sense of the word

What exactly were they trying to protect him from though? Humanity was no threat to him. Unless they were trying to protect themselves, it all just seems silly.

Originally posted by tkitna
What exactly were they trying to protect him from though? Humanity was no threat to him. Unless they were trying to protect themselves, it all just seems silly.

As a child he was vulnerable. It's only when he's an adult that he's free to do what he wants and is powerful enough that nothing short of kryptonite or another kryptonian will put him down.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
MoS was amazing not just as a superhero film, but as a film, period.

Originally posted by -Pr-
As a child he was vulnerable. It's only when he's an adult that he's free to do what he wants and is powerful enough that nothing short of kryptonite or another kryptonian will put him down.

That makes the death of Pa Kent even that much worse in my opinion. I remember busting out laughing when I saw that tornado scene at the theater. First problem is he rushed back out into a tornado to save a damn dog and then you have him deciding it would be better to die then to allow his super human son to save him although he had nothing to fear at this point. Lastly, old Clark stood there and let it happen. Lol. Are we supposed to believe that garbage? It was all just so horribly done that it was comical.

Clark was a teenager in that scene, iirc, so it fits with the lore.

Not saying it's a good scene, though.

Originally posted by tkitna
That makes the death of Pa Kent even that much worse in my opinion. I remember busting out laughing when I saw that tornado scene at the theater. First problem is he rushed back out into a tornado to save a damn dog and then you have him deciding it would be better to die then to allow his super human son to save him although he had nothing to fear at this point. Lastly, old Clark stood there and let it happen. Lol. Are we supposed to believe that garbage? It was all just so horribly done that it was comical.