Team Battle Royale Between Platform Duos

Started by Demonic Phoenix11 pages
Originally posted by Sacred 117
Weaknesses, no. Patterns, yes. Kratos approaches combat directly with overreliance on overwhelming force. This is why Cloud lost.

* Brute force with some precision applied. Despite his looks, he's no oaf.

Fodder are just ripped apart.
Higher level foes and such are systematically weakened first (eg. breaking Euryale's arm first, or dismembering Satyrs) and then killed. At least, that's how it was prior to 3, where he more or less ripped nearly everything apart with extreme prejudice, or stabbed with the Blade of Olympus.

Well there is that age old lightning timing argument, that I won't go into. He has batted arrows aside and MM is faster than a race horse.

The lightning thing has been done ad-nauseum, hell i was one of the original supporters of that, but I cannot support it anymore. At this point, we'd need a confirmation from Aonuma himself to make it legit. At what range did he bat the arrows though? And how many?

Not sure how faster than a race horse helps.

In TP he cuts bulbin arrows, some at pretty close range.

I know combat speed=/= travel speed, but the kid's a lot quicker than most people give him credit for. He frequently deals with teleporters and distractions.

I'm not talking about combat speed vs travel.

It's just that running faster than a horse does not say much at all about reaction time.

Cheetahs run faster than horses too. And they don't have a perception speed advantage. If the cheetah was faster physically and faster mentally by the same percentage, then that would be a significant increase over the horse. As it is though, 1 second for a cheetah is still 1 second for a horse.

If Link could run as fast as sound or something and not run into anything, then that would be a worthy combat usable speed feat. Seeing as he would have to see time quicker in order to not run into anything.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
The lightning thing has been done ad-nauseum, hell i was one of the original supporters of that, but I cannot support it anymore. At this point, we'd need a confirmation from Aonuma himself to make it legit. At what range did he bat the arrows though? And how many?

Not sure how faster than a race horse helps.

I thought one of them devs confirmed that he is?

Talking about Link, not Kratos. Then again, maybe one of the LoZ devs confirmed it.

Oh, because I thought CC went against Kratos being a lightning timer at one point. My bad

I'd have banned him from the Kratos fan club if that were the case. uhuh

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Oh, because I thought CC went against Kratos being a lightning timer at one point. My bad

I'm talking about Link here, who is not yet a confirmed Lightning timer.

Kratos now is. I did go against it at one point though, you're right.

And if Kratos didn't have the speed feat in Ascension of moving through a significant time dilation under his own power, I probably still would be. You can't have a reaction time far greater than your running speed, it makes no logical sense. But moving through a time dilation is a great practical speed feat that puts Kratos beyond the typical peak human area of speed that most clumped him in. The feat of falling debris looking like its falling in great slow mo relative to him also helped out.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
You can't have a reaction time far greater than your running speed, it makes no logical sense.

It's been a while since I looked at it, but the last time I checked, average human stats are as follows. Running Speed (average of short + long distance): approx. 10 mph. Striking Speed: approx. 15 mph. Reaction Time: approx. 1/8 seconds. Adjust this for video game characters, and the gap between them grows. For example, Master Chief's running speed is about 50 mph. Proportionally, that already puts his striking speed at around 75 mph. I'm guessing that would also put his reaction time at 1/48 seconds, but even I doubt that. Hopefully, you get what I'm trying to say. I simply wished to point this out. Furthermore, your statements about Kratos being a "confirmed lightning timer" coupled with this seeming "running speed = reaction speed" logic doesn't exactly add up to me. I'm not questioning his feat because I haven't actually played Ascension yet, but based on what your saying, shouldn't Kratos also run at perpetual hypersonic speeds (or however fast his feat suggests he is)?

Cloud didn't lose for this oversimplified reasoning. Cloud lost because for some reason, Death Battle went with the reasoning that Link and Cloud are on equal terms as far as speed and reaction time goes. They aren't. Cloud is much faster and swifter, and thus should have beaten Link.

Lol'd. Cloud cannot compete. Bonking Bahamut and some bullet timing doesn't cut it there. Deathbattle is wrong often enough, that time they were not.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Lol'd. Cloud cannot compete. Bonking Bahamut and some bullet timing doesn't cut it there. Deathbattle is wrong often enough, that time they were not.

Agreed. He was taking on half-ass Omni-Link. He basically had no business taking him on.

Originally posted by Sacred 117
It's been a while since I looked at it, but the last time I checked, average human stats are as follows. Running Speed (average of short + long distance): approx. 10 mph. Striking Speed: approx. 15 mph. Reaction Time: approx. 1/8 seconds. Adjust this for video game characters, and the gap between them grows. For example, Master Chief's running speed is about 50 mph. Proportionally, that already puts his striking speed at around 75 mph. I'm guessing that would also put his reaction time at 1/48 seconds, but even I doubt that. Hopefully, you get what I'm trying to say. I simply wished to point this out. Furthermore, your statements about Kratos being a "confirmed lightning timer" coupled with this seeming "running speed = reaction speed" logic doesn't exactly add up to me. I'm not questioning his feat because I haven't actually played Ascension yet, but based on what your saying, shouldn't Kratos also run at perpetual hypersonic speeds (or however fast his feat suggests he is)?

No, I don't get what you're trying to say because those figures are exactly what I'm talking about here. It illustrates my exact point. Most people can't seem to make sense of this thing though, I've had to talk about it ad-nauseum, I'll try to explain it again here.

No, the gap does not grow. The proportion presumably stays the same. I'll explain.

Movement speed and 'reaction' speed are irreversibly tied. If your perception speed is too slow for you, then your movement speed is too fast for your perception speed. If your perception speed is too fast for you, then your movement speed is going to be too slow to you. The latter is to the type of situation you get when idiots try to create character types that supposedly can 'react' at something ridiculous (like say lightspeed), yet can only run at 'peak human' speed.

Let's illustrate the ridiculousness of that notion. A 'reflex' speed of thousands upon thousands of times greater than your running speed. You know what kind of stupid situation that implies? For one, its like saying something as dumb as; "My muscles move much faster than my muscles."

In the time it takes you to throw a punch, which is like, 1/5 of a second, in that same time frame you can take a step forward with your feet. As many punches as I can throw in a second, I can also take small steps forward with my feet in comparable frequency.

On the other hand, to a character that has a 'reflex' speed of lightspeed, what the hell is keeping them from running at comparable speeds? If their running speed is only peak human, then obviously that has to mean that their running speed is so slow to them as to feel like their legs can't even move. Basically, their legs should feel like they are absolutely useless to them in a fight because they apparently move their arms at thousands of times the speed of their legs and see time fast enough to control their speed in order to even have said lightspeed reflexes. So basically their 'peak human' running speed should feel like they are taking months or something to even visibly move. In such a situation, you have one of two options, you have to call bullshit on their 'reflex' speed being thousands of times faster than their running speed, or you have to call bullshit on their running speed being thousands of times slower than their 'reflex' speed.

Again, what is keeping these people with massive reflexes from running near as fast as they can react? Logically, nothing, because there is no character out there that adheres to the logic that their legs are so slow relative to their reflexes that they can't even see them move a centimeter in a fight, (which would thus mean they are forced to fight like their legs are turned to stone but their upper body is fine.)

Let's take characters like Thanos and Thor, often repeated to be those that can react far faster than they run. Their running speeds are absolutely pathetic in comparison to how fast fans tend to boast their 'reflex' speeds being. But, for those characters, are their legs like statues to them? No. Are their legs useless to them in a fight? No. Have they been shown to move their entire body in situations where they supposedly react at these great speeds? Yes. So they are just like anyone else, their limbs move in proportion to each other as far as speed goes.

If Thanos throws 'lightspeed' punch, and takes a step forward at the same time, and if he can keep taking those steps forward, then he is ALREADY moving at near lightspeed. What keeps him from continuing to take those steps forward in the same time frame as he throws a punch? Theoretically nothing, seeing as his arm and leg speed are not portrayed as being out of proportion. But in all of his portrayals you will never see him being referred to as a fast person. Spiderman would outrun him. You can't have fast reactions without actually being fast. Reaction speed is partly how fast you think and how fast your muscles move. You can't have it without both. When say Flash is running (or even walking) at his normal full capacity from say California to New York, it will take him what? Far less than a second. Let's just say a microsecond. But to Flash, since his reaction time is proportional to his movement speed (just like any normal character), that 1 microsecond is going to feel like months to him.

So in the case of someone like Thanos and Thor, you have to call bullshit on those supposed extrapolations of lightspeed reactions as outliers, and realize that their actual honest to goodness speed is much slower (though still fast), because they do not see their legs as statues in comparison to their reaction time.

It's even worse because what I'm saying here is just an overly simplified version by making it seem like reactions to a stimulus can only happen with the upper body. Obviously it does not. Let's make the idea even more apparently stupid. Let's say someone reacts to a lightspeed arrow from a few feet away by kicking it out of the way, ok, so we still say that their reaction speed is at at that level, even if they used their legs right? Of course we do. But now, are we suddenly able to say that this same person that reacted to a lightspeed attack with their legs can't run faster than peak human speed too? Do you see how stupid an idea that becomes when you think about it? It's absolutely absurd. If they can move their leg in a few nanoseconds to throw a kick, OF COURSE, they can do something far more simple than that by taking a step forward in those same few nanoseconds. And by doing that, they are already moving at or near lightspeed (light moves 1 foot during a nanosecond by the way). In such a situation, the "My muscles move much faster than muscles" statement becomes an even more hilarious one to ponder, because well, you're using the exact same muscle groups lol; the ones in your legs.

As for Kratos, absolutely. I did not mince my words. Kratos has a legit speedster type of speed feat. Moving his body under a heavy time dilation. The implication is obvious for his actual movement speed, and its as I said, something that immediately moves him out of that 'peak human' tier that he got clumped in. This only poses a problem for those that look for a particular visual cue as far as speedster goes, e.g., the audience seeing the character move in a blur or what have you. But that's not required. As I explained with the Flash, the implication is simple; True Super Speed isn't seeing yourself as fast, but seeing everything else as slow.

The Flash sees his speed as entirely normal. Just as I see my speed as normal. It would take me what feels like months to cross the length of America if I could do it non-stop with no breaks, and it would take him what feels like months as well. (the obvious difference is that a month to him is not even an a quarter of a second to me).

As for Kratos? He already falls under that. He doesn't see himself as fast. His perception speed (when its actually made use of) was shown to see other things as slowed down. Such as the other feat in Ascension where falling debris looked to be falling in heavy slow mo to him, while he seemed to be moving at normal speed.

There's also no need to put quotes around the confirmed lightning timer bit. If you weren't aware, it wasn't just fan extrapolation, a developer confirmed that he can lightning time. Developers also confirmed the time dilation feat.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Lol'd. Cloud cannot compete. Bonking Bahamut and some bullet timing doesn't cut it there. Deathbattle is wrong often enough, that time they were not.

Link does not have a single speed feat to suggest that he can bullet time.

He reacted to thrown orb electrical orbs from Ganon. Orbs that cannot be assumed to be lightning speed because they are, well, orbs of electricity and not lightning, and they were propelled by his muscles throwing them, not just simple zapping. The closest thing to that is the
artwork of LTTP showing him blocking lightning with his sword, but that lightning bolt appeared to be made up of hot wax or something, and not to mention we don't know when Link put up his sword; just before the lightning strike reached him, or after it reached him, (e.g. he got struck but pushed it back with his sword so he didn't have to bear the brunt of it anymore).

Link with the full Triforce wins.

Take it away and Kratos solos the field, as well as his own team member.

So what form of Link are we talking about? Composite instantly spites this thread.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
I'm talking about Link here, who is not yet a confirmed Lightning timer.

Kratos now is. I did go against it at one point though, you're right.

And if Kratos didn't have the speed feat in Ascension of moving through a significant time dilation under his own power, I probably still would be. You can't have a reaction time far greater than your running speed, it makes no logical sense. But moving through a time dilation is a great practical speed feat that puts Kratos beyond the typical peak human area of speed that most clumped him in. The feat of falling debris looking like its falling in great slow mo relative to him also helped out.

You're dumb.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Link with the full Triforce wins.

Take it away and Kratos solos the field, as well as his own team member.

Curious, I know you're a Jak fan but have you ever played Jak X Combat Racing and his final, proper game, Jak & Daxter: The Lost Frontier?

The latter came out in 2009, well into the PS3's life span, but it was for the PS2 and PSP. I did not know about it till recently.

Going to have to get it off of E-Bay so I can see what feats for Jak I may have missed.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You're dumb.

Suck mah dick. And nope, I'm right, but you know that.