General Zod Invasion Force vs Marvel Earth

Originally posted by juggerman
Zod doesn't need his helmet. Plus it took him 13 seconds to overcome this weakness so i doubt it wouke the rest much longer to do so as well especially considering he could tell them how to do so

In this scenario as per OP, Zod and crew never met Kal-el and thus would never have known that they can take off their helmets and get powers. So Zod in this fight IS in a helmet unless stated otherwise.

Furthermore, the first time Zod experienced earth's atmosphere without a helmet clearly dazed him. When he was finally able to overcome it, that was 13 seconds where he was completely helpless. Plus this was zod, military head of krypton. To assume that all the kryptonians would have the same mental fortitude as he did would be silly.

Originally posted by FrothByte
In this scenario as per OP, Zod and crew never met Kal-el and thus would never have known that they can take off their helmets and get powers. So Zod in this fight IS in a helmet unless stated otherwise.

Furthermore, the first time Zod experienced earth's atmosphere without a helmet clearly dazed him. When he was finally able to overcome it, that was 13 seconds where he was completely helpless. Plus this was zod, military head of krypton. To assume that all the kryptonians would have the same mental fortitude as he did would be silly.

They still knew they would get powers. As soon as they were off the ship they were lifting cars and leaping at planes. Jor El knew what the yellow sun would do and so did Zod

Zod stated that as a military man he was trained to adapt quickly which inferred they all were trained like this. Plus notice that they never before had these powers yet Faora and Nam Ek were able to evenly match Superman's speed and strength right off. They were even able to accurately gauge where they jumped and sprinted to without any actual training. Seems like adapting quickly is what they all do but i agree that they wouldn't as quickly as Zod. Might take them 15 seconds

Originally posted by juggerman
They still knew they would get powers. As soon as they were off the ship they were lifting cars and leaping at planes. Jor El knew what the yellow sun would do and so did Zod

Zod stated that as a military man he was trained to adapt quickly which inferred they all were trained like this. Plus notice that they never before had these powers yet Faora and Nam Ek were able to evenly match Superman's speed and strength right off. They were even able to accurately gauge where they jumped and sprinted to without any actual training. Seems like adapting quickly is what they all do but i agree that they wouldn't as quickly as Zod. Might take them 15 seconds

They had super strength and speed even with their helmets. Zod wouodn't have had a reason to remove his helmet if he never saw Clark. He wouldn't have even known they could fly. Fact still remains that the kryptonians are in pain and very vulnerable once their helmets are damaged till they get to adjust to it. Zod acclimated in about 15 seconds but that was in a peaceful environment where he wasn't in danger. Completely different circumstances from being in a battlezine wih other superpowered beings. Heck Faora got her helmet damaged while in a battlezone and she got knocked out by human artillery. She didn't look like she was anywhere near to adjusting to it.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Not to mention they have more fighting skill(Faora atleast).

Nah, most skilled is Weapon XI, followed by either Faora or Thor. The rest are brawlers.

Originally posted by FrothByte
They had super strength and speed even with their helmets. Zod wouodn't have had a reason to remove his helmet if he never saw Clark. He wouldn't have even known they could fly. Fact still remains that the kryptonians are in pain and very vulnerable once their helmets are damaged till they get to adjust to it. Zod acclimated in about 15 seconds but that was in a peaceful environment where he wasn't in danger. Completely different circumstances from being in a battlezine wih other superpowered beings. Heck Faora got her helmet damaged while in a battlezone and she got knocked out by human artillery. She didn't look like she was anywhere near to adjusting to it.

Zod didn't look like he was adjusting either. Until he did. Besides the helmets stood up to enraged punches from Superman. I highly doubt the team could breach them easily. And that's assuming they go for the helmets at all. How long was Faora KO'd? I doubt it was long enough to net the Marvel guys a win here. She was up destroying ships a bit later that day iirc.

And they had speed and strength due to the yellow sun which they all adjusted to right away. And Zod adjusted to flying and HV mid fight. Shows how quickly they adapt. You are underestimating these guys while overestimating the Marvel guys. A dash punch from Faora would kill 90% of them.

The dash punch i was referring to starts at 0:35

YouTube video

Originally posted by juggerman
Zod didn't look like he was adjusting either. Until he did. Besides the helmets stood up to enraged punches from Superman. I highly doubt the team could breach them easily. And that's assuming they go for the helmets at all. How long was Faora KO'd? I doubt it was long enough to net the Marvel guys a win here. She was up destroying ships a bit later that day iirc.

And they had speed and strength due to the yellow sun which they all adjusted to right away. And Zod adjusted to flying and HV mid fight. Shows how quickly they adapt. You are underestimating these guys while overestimating the Marvel guys. A dash punch from Faora would kill 90% of them.

Why wouldn't the team go for the helmets? Isn't it basic fight strategy to try to hit people in the face/head?

Zod adjusted to flying and HV mid fight BUT he had already tried taking out his helmet and experienced (and withstood) the effects of earth's atmosphere before hand. Claiming that any of the kryptonians can quickly adapt once their helmets are damaged in the middle of the fight is absurd and completely without proof.

First time Zod experienced earth's atmosphere, he collapsed on his knees and was completely helpless. It wasn't until later that he was able to control it. Faora had her helmet damaged (not even completely removed) and not only was she unable to adjust to it, she got completely knocked out by a missile after. Then she had to be carried back to the ship (in a safe kryptonian environment) before she recuperated. And when next we see her, guess what, she had her helmet back on. Proving that she was unable to adjust to earth's atmosphere. Fact still remains that once their helmets are damaged, the Marvel heroes can make short work of them.

As for how durable the helmets are, yes they're durable, but not quite as durable as the kryptonians themselves. Among the Marvel heroes you have quite a number of them powerful enough to damage those helmets. Thor, Hulk, Doom, Weapon XI's adamantium blades, probably even Magneto's magnetism if he can wrap some metal around it. Heck, they don't even need to destroy them, Magneto and Phoenix can just latch pieces of metal in front of their helmets and now they're blind. They'll have to keep ripping off those pieces of metal in order to fight and that's going to be very troublesome for them.

And LOL at Faora killing 90% of them by a single dash punch. Hulk is extremely tough and has HF on top of that. Thor is tough enough to survive the bifrost explosion without a scratch. Doom is tough on his own, but add to that Thing's and Reed's toughness, plus Sue's shield capabilites and you have a guy that's near impossible to hurt. Then there's Weapon XI's HF as well. No, the kryptonians aren't going to one-shot these guys. You're seriously under estimating the Marvel heroes.

And while I make no claims that the Marvel guys can win this fight easily or without casualties, they just have far more options to exploit the Kryptonian's weakness than the other way around.

If it weren't for the helmet weakness, then the kryptonians would have this fight in the bag.

Wonder how many kryptonians were hanging out in Zod's ship. Looked like 15, maybe more.

Zod should've just unleashed them all in the movie.

GG Earth.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Why wouldn't the team go for the helmets? Isn't it basic fight strategy to try to hit people in the face/head?

Zod adjusted to flying and HV mid fight BUT he had already tried taking out his helmet and experienced (and withstood) the effects of earth's atmosphere before hand. Claiming that any of the kryptonians can quickly adapt once their helmets are damaged in the middle of the fight is absurd and completely without proof.

First time Zod experienced earth's atmosphere, he collapsed on his knees and was completely helpless. It wasn't until later that he was able to control it. Faora had her helmet damaged (not even completely removed) and not only was she unable to adjust to it, she got completely knocked out by a missile after. Then she had to be carried back to the ship (in a safe kryptonian environment) before she recuperated. And when next we see her, guess what, she had her helmet back on. Proving that she was unable to adjust to earth's atmosphere. Fact still remains that once their helmets are damaged, the Marvel heroes can make short work of them.

As for how durable the helmets are, yes they're durable, but not quite as durable as the kryptonians themselves. Among the Marvel heroes you have quite a number of them powerful enough to damage those helmets. Thor, Hulk, Doom, Weapon XI's adamantium blades, probably even Magneto's magnetism if he can wrap some metal around it. Heck, they don't even need to destroy them, Magneto and Phoenix can just latch pieces of metal in front of their helmets and now they're blind. They'll have to keep ripping off those pieces of metal in order to fight and that's going to be very troublesome for them.

And LOL at Faora killing 90% of them by a single dash punch. Hulk is extremely tough and has HF on top of that. Thor is tough enough to survive the bifrost explosion without a scratch. Doom is tough on his own, but add to that Thing's and Reed's toughness, plus Sue's shield capabilites and you have a guy that's near impossible to hurt. Then there's Weapon XI's HF as well. No, the kryptonians aren't going to one-shot these guys. You're seriously under estimating the Marvel heroes.

And while I make no claims that the Marvel guys can win this fight easily or without casualties, they just have far more options to exploit the Kryptonian's weakness than the other way around.

If it weren't for the helmet weakness, then the kryptonians would have this fight in the bag.

I meant as far as removing the helmets. You made it seem like the Marvel side would jump to the conclusion of “Hey we should remove their helmets anyway we can” from go.

Zod already proved they could adapt quickly if they chose to try.

Their senses being overloaded is what caused them pain. It does not however weaken them. The missile caused extra stimuli on top of what she was dealing with, which resulted in Faora being knocked out. It was highly unlikely that the force of a missile explosion was all it took. The team seeing aliens covered in space gear being in pain once breached would not jump to the conclusion of “sensory overload”. They would assume the air/environment actually weakened them and would continue to pound on them. It wouldn’t be enough to KO them tho. So even if their helmet was breached it is unlikely the team would be able to finish them off before they were able to fully adjust.

Thor maybe. Hulk yes. Doom no. Deadpool yes. Magneto no. I have never seen Magneto or Jean fight in this way. Care to show me an example?

Ok here I admit to exaggerating a bit. Magneto and Jean would die. Ironman and Deadpool would be taken out. Doom and Thor would be rocked but still in the fray. Hulk wouldn’t be too bad off. But that’s within the first few seconds of the fight and with only one Kryptonian attacking. If they all did at once, I think there were about 10, that leaves 3 on Thor 3 on Doom and 3 on Hulk while Zod watches on eating popcorn. Hell they still need to bring down the World Engine and Zod’s ship which splits their forces across the planet. Not one of them is making it across the globe to help the others. Plus don’t the Tonians have a bunch of smaller ships that fire lasers capable of launching Superman?

I disagree. The Marvel team is too fragile to be too much of a threat here.

They have it in the bag regardless

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Wonder how many kryptonians were hanging out in Zod's ship. Looked like 15, maybe more.

Zod should've just unleashed them all in the movie.

GG Earth.

I always wondered why we never got to see those others. I'd say it looked more like 20. If I was getting into a fight, I wouldn't just ask 2 of my guys to fight with me right?

Originally posted by juggerman
I meant as far as removing the helmets. You made it seem like the Marvel side would jump to the conclusion of “Hey we should remove their helmets anyway we can” from go.

Zod already proved they could adapt quickly if they chose to try.

Their senses being overloaded is what caused them pain. It does not however weaken them. The missile caused extra stimuli on top of what she was dealing with, which resulted in Faora being knocked out. It was highly unlikely that the force of a missile explosion was all it took. The team seeing aliens covered in space gear being in pain once breached would not jump to the conclusion of “sensory overload”. They would assume the air/environment actually weakened them and would continue to pound on them. It wouldn’t be enough to KO them tho. So even if their helmet was breached it is unlikely the team would be able to finish them off before they were able to fully adjust.

Thor maybe. Hulk yes. Doom no. Deadpool yes. Magneto no. I have never seen Magneto or Jean fight in this way. Care to show me an example?

Ok here I admit to exaggerating a bit. Magneto and Jean would die. Ironman and Deadpool would be taken out. Doom and Thor would be rocked but still in the fray. Hulk wouldn’t be too bad off. But that’s within the first few seconds of the fight and with only one Kryptonian attacking. If they all did at once, I think there were about 10, that leaves 3 on Thor 3 on Doom and 3 on Hulk while Zod watches on eating popcorn. Hell they still need to bring down the World Engine and Zod’s ship which splits their forces across the planet. Not one of them is making it across the globe to help the others. Plus don’t the Tonians have a bunch of smaller ships that fire lasers capable of launching Superman?

I disagree. The Marvel team is too fragile to be too much of a threat here.

They have it in the bag regardless

We know Faora was in pain from sensory overload, but we don't really know if it was sensory overload that knocked her out or the missile's explosion itself. We have to remember that sense of touch is still part of our senses, so getting hit with blunt trauma is still valid for "sensory overload". Meaning once their helmets are damaged and they're suffering from sensory overload, a Hulk punch or Thor hammerstrike should be sufficient to knock them out.

All we really know is that a missile's power was enough to knock out Faora while in a disoriented state. As long as the Marvel heroes can attack with something as strong or stronger than the missile, then that should knock the aliens out. There's nothing really shown to indicate otherwise.

Doom... you have to remember has the power of the entire fantastic four as per OP, which would make him the most powerful member in the team. Magneto has enough magnetic strength to lift a bridge, something which none of the other combatants have shown capable of doing. And while Jean and Magneto would definitely get killed with a single shot, we really shouldn't underestimate them.

Weapon XI can teleport and would be extremely hard to hit. The kryptonians showed super speed but not super reflexes. Plus adamantium blades should still injure the kryptonians. Add to that his HF and optic blasts and he'd be one tough guy to put down.

But all of these, I was considering that there was a 1 to 1 ratio between kryptonians and heroes. If the kryptonians have them outnumbered by even like just 2 extra members, that tips the scales heavily in the kyrptonans' favor.

Teams are even numbered.

Originally posted by FrothByte
We know Faora was in pain from sensory overload, but we don't really know if it was sensory overload that knocked her out or the missile's explosion itself. We have to remember that sense of touch is still part of our senses, so getting hit with blunt trauma is still valid for "sensory overload". Meaning once their helmets are damaged and they're suffering from sensory overload, a Hulk punch or Thor hammerstrike should be sufficient to knock them out.

All we really know is that a missile's power was enough to knock out Faora while in a disoriented state. As long as the Marvel heroes can attack with something as strong or stronger than the missile, then that should knock the aliens out. There's nothing really shown to indicate otherwise.

Doom... you have to remember has the power of the entire fantastic four as per OP, which would make him the most powerful member in the team. Magneto has enough magnetic strength to lift a bridge, something which none of the other combatants have shown capable of doing. And while Jean and Magneto would definitely get killed with a single shot, we really shouldn't underestimate them.

Weapon XI can teleport and would be extremely hard to hit. The kryptonians showed super speed but not super reflexes. Plus adamantium blades should still injure the kryptonians. Add to that his HF and optic blasts and he'd be one tough guy to put down.

But all of these, I was considering that there was a 1 to 1 ratio between kryptonians and heroes. If the kryptonians have them outnumbered by even like just 2 extra members, that tips the scales heavily in the kyrptonans' favor.

Ok i'll give you the sensory stuff. But even still as i said most of the Marvel team would be dead/KO'd within a few seconds. Faora would dash blast them and none of them are quick enough to avoid it. And that's just her.

Then the rest would be outnumbered and overwhelmed at this point.. And that's not even taking into account that they are seperated and need to destroy the ships.

Deadpool was not fast/durable enough to take these punches as he was getting tagged by Wolverine and Sabretooth even tho he could teleport.

They don't have super reflexes? Seriously? Just watch the fight again and you'll see Faora dodging a super fast Superman and counter hitting him. If that's not super reflexes i don't know what is. And those are speeds far greater than any of the Marvel guys.

Ok 7 on 7 here but once Magneto, Jean, Ironman and Deadpool are taken out, which would take seconds, it would be 7 on 3. Still way too much for Marvel to handle imo

In terms of power Marvel gets rape stomped. Faora and Supes had roughly equal strength yet neither of them actually got hurt from one another. No bruisings, no dust, no blood not even a speck of dirt. However there is the adjusting to Earth that could give Marvel the edge but in a straight fight, Faora solos.

Thor bled against the Hulk and the Hulk bled from the Chitauri. Their durability ain't as good as the Kryptonians.

Kneel before Zod.

Faora arguably is a more skilled fighter than anyone on the Marvel team.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Faora arguably is a more skilled fighter than anyone on the Marvel team.

That's very arguable since she hasn't tested her fighting skills against anyone of note. She beat up humans whom she had a huge strength and speed advantage against. She out-skilled a farm boy who's never been in a fight in his entire life, not even a school fight. Fancy moves don't necessarily make you a skilled fighter.

Weapon XI is by far a better fighter, and I'd say Thor is as well. At least Thor has proven his fighting skill while he was human.

Originally posted by FrothByte
That's very arguable since she hasn't tested her fighting skills against anyone of note. She beat up humans whom she had a huge strength and speed advantage against. She out-skilled a farm boy who's never been in a fight in his entire life, not even a school fight. Fancy moves don't necessarily make you a skilled fighter.

Weapon XI is by far a better fighter, and I'd say Thor is as well. At least Thor has proven his fighting skill while he was human.

I agree but her skill isn't very important here. Mayweather is much more skilled than this Superman yet would still lose. Same concept here. She's way too powerful

Originally posted by juggerman
I agree but her skill isn't very important here. Mayweather is much more skilled than this Superman yet would still lose. Same concept here. She's way too powerful

Mayweather is a poor comparison for Thor or Weapon XI. He may be skilled, but he's human and completely without powers. Thor is skilled AND powerful, and so is Weapon XI though to a lesser degree. There's already a Thor vs. Faora thread and IIRC, Thor was actually winning that debate.

The kryptonians have no proper way to kill those on the Marvel side who can fly. They kryptonians can jump but they're not super fast when they do so, nor do they have maneuverability. How are they going to take out IM or Doom or Thor if they're flying around?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Weapon XI is by far a better fighter, and I'd say Thor is as well. At least Thor has proven his fighting skill while he was human.