General Zod Invasion Force vs Marvel Earth

Originally posted by FrothByte
Mayweather is a poor comparison for Thor or Weapon XI. He may be skilled, but he's human and completely without powers. Thor is skilled AND powerful, and so is Weapon XI though to a lesser degree. There's already a Thor vs. Faora thread and IIRC, Thor was actually winning that debate.

The kryptonians have no proper way to kill those on the Marvel side who can fly. They kryptonians can jump but they're not super fast when they do so, nor do they have maneuverability. How are they going to take out IM or Doom or Thor if they're flying around?

It's the same since Thor and Deadpool are not in the same range as these guys. I'll come ove to that thread and set it straight lol

They do as the marvel will not just hover above them. They will engage like they always do. You're trying to have them fight out of character so they can win. Ironman and Doom are not untouchable when in flight.

Hulk is like that big dude that was fighting Superman with Faora except Hulk is stronger and faster. Thor can hold his own against a kryptonian as well. The rest sucks. Kryptonians wins.

Phoenix Jean was disintegrating buildings, Magneto can manipulate masses as large as the Golden Gate bridge, Thor was destroying small landmasses, Doom can create force fields that withstand near supernova-level energy, and XI has bullet-slicing reflexes and the ability to teleport. This won't be easy for the Kryptonians by a long shot.

Originally posted by juggerman
It's the same since Thor and Deadpool are not in the same range as these guys. I'll come ove to that thread and set it straight lol

They do as the marvel will not just hover above them. They will engage like they always do. You're trying to have them fight out of character so they can win. Ironman and Doom are not untouchable when in flight.

Same range as these guys? I don't quite follow. You were stating that no matter how much more skilled Mayweather is, he cannot beat Superman. Then you compare Thor/Weapon XI and Faora to that match. Do you honestly believe that the power difference between Thor and Faora is as big as the power difference between Mayweather and Superman? Seriously? C'mon man, even you have to admit that's a huge exaggeration.

As for fighting out of character.... we've never seen Doom given the power of flight before. How can you say it's out of character for him to just hover in the air and spam fire when he's never been able to fly before? You're trying to dumb down Doom so he will brawl against the Kryptonians. As for Thor, he actually uses flight and weather manipulation quite well when he needs to. Remember how he dealt with the Destroyer? Not once did he try to brawl with that thing, not once did his feet touch the ground once he decided to get serious with it. So it's not quite out of character.

Ironman, meh, I'll give you that. He's probably the first one who dies anyway.

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk is like that big dude that was fighting Superman with Faora except Hulk is stronger and faster. Thor can hold his own against a kryptonian as well. The rest sucks. Kryptonians wins.

lol Hulk isn't near the speed of any of the Kryptonians.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
You said it yourself with fancy moves. Weapon XI was impressive but he also had teleportation which is a massive aid.

Yes Weapon XI had fancy moves, but at least he's proven himself against better competition than Faora did. Even before his transformation, Deadpool was able to take out a whole room of soldiers unloading guns into him, all the while armed with nothing but swords. He had no super speed, no super strength, no invulnerability, no super tough armor... that alone displayed far more skill than Faora ever did. And even when he had teleportation, he was still taking on two mutants with powers and skills a lot closer to his own than humans are close to Faora's.

Faora killed humans who didn't have a tenth of her speed and strength. Woohoo, big deal. Then she fought a farmboy and even had the help of Nam-ek to do it. So again, there's really no reason to think that Faora has better fighting skill than either Thor or Weapon XI. Until proven otherwise, she's just fancy moves.

Weapons XI may have fancier moves than her but at least he's used it against more challenging odds.

Originally posted by FrothByte
That's very arguable since she hasn't tested her fighting skills against anyone of note. She beat up humans whom she had a huge strength and speed advantage against. She out-skilled a farm boy who's never been in a fight in his entire life, not even a school fight. Fancy moves don't necessarily make you a skilled fighter.

Weapon XI is by far a better fighter, and I'd say Thor is as well. At least Thor has proven his fighting skill while he was human.

She's a genetically designed fighter and since it's her role to be a solider it's no stretch of the imagination to denote her as skilled...

By that token what make sThor skilled? You say there's no proof for Faora yet we're going to accept your opinion on Thor's skill? I also don't count subjective accounts on Thor's powerless self as proof either.

Originally posted by ares834
lol Hulk isn't near the speed of any of the Kryptonians.

No he's not. But he's arguably tougher and stronger. Remember this is Bana hulk we're talking about.

Originally posted by Based
She's a genetically designed fighter and since it's her role to be a solider it's no stretch of the imagination to denote her as skilled...

By that token what make sThor skilled? You say there's no proof for Faora yet we're going to accept your opinion on Thor's skill? I also don't count subjective accounts on Thor's powerless self as proof either.

There's proof of Thor's skill. Thor took on a whole camp's worth of armed SHIELD soldiers with nothing but his fists, and this was while he was human. He had no power to help him and had only his skill to rely on. Show me Faora taking on multiple trained and armed opponents of similar strength and speed to her. Did she every take on multiple armed kryptonains while unarmed? Did she lose her powers and take on multiple humans with nothing but her skill?

Thor took on multiple Ice giants whom although weren't exactly trained in martial arts, still was a warrior race who have been veterans of battle. Show me Faora taking on opponents near her strength range who have seen battle before.

Faora was bred as a soldier but Thor is a thousand year old warrior. Whom do you think was trained more?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Same range as these guys? I don't quite follow. You were stating that no matter how much more skilled Mayweather is, he cannot beat Superman. Then you compare Thor/Weapon XI and Faora to that match. Do you honestly believe that the power difference between Thor and Faora is as big as the power difference between Mayweather and Superman? Seriously? C'mon man, even you have to admit that's a huge exaggeration.

As for fighting out of character.... we've never seen Doom given the power of flight before. How can you say it's out of character for him to just hover in the air and spam fire when he's never been able to fly before? You're trying to dumb down Doom so he will brawl against the Kryptonians. As for Thor, he actually uses flight and weather manipulation quite well when he needs to. Remember how he dealt with the Destroyer? Not once did he try to brawl with that thing, not once did his feet touch the ground once he decided to get serious with it. So it's not quite out of character.

Ironman, meh, I'll give you that. He's probably the first one who dies anyway.

I'm not saying Mayweather is on the level of Thor and such. I'm saying that the Kryptonians are so far ahead of them as well that it wouldn't matter the skill level

Doom was pretty dumb in fights. This isn't comic Doom. And yeah Thor used weather in a fight.... once. Look at his other fights tho. Frost Giants, Loki, Ironman, Cap(not really a fight but still), Hulk, and the aliens. Are you suggesting the Destroyer bit is how he NORMALLY fights? He'll brawl and he'll fall.

Originally posted by ares834
lol Hulk isn't near the speed of any of the Kryptonians.

What speed fts did that big guy have?

He was running next to and caught a missile, and outran Apache mini-gun fire IIRC

Originally posted by juggerman
I'm not saying Mayweather is on the level of Thor and such. I'm saying that the Kryptonians are so far ahead of them as well that it wouldn't matter the skill level

Doom was pretty dumb in fights. This isn't comic Doom. And yeah Thor used weather in a fight.... once. Look at his other fights tho. Frost Giants, Loki, Ironman, Cap(not really a fight but still), Hulk, and the aliens. Are you suggesting the Destroyer bit is how he NORMALLY fights? He'll brawl and he'll fall.

So because Thor only did it once you're assuming that he can't and won't use it in this fight? If he did it once, it's still a viable option for him. Against frost giants, loki, Ironman, he never needed to use it because he was dominating them using only fists and hammer. No need to use more exotic powers. There has only ever been two opponents he couldn't dominate with fists and hammer: Hulk and Destroyer. Hulk he fought inside the hellicarrier, and Destroyer... well you saw what he did to it. Don't you think that once Thor realizes he can't brawl against the Kryptonians that he'll resort to other tactics? He's not dumb you know.

Same with Doom. He might try to brawl, fail at brawling, and do you honestly think he'll still continue to brawl?? One thing the marvel side has as an advantage is that if brawling fails, they have other means to fight. The kryptonians can only brawl.

Besides, Phoenix Jean can simply levitate the kryptonians and they'll be helpless in the air. Then Thor, Doom and the others can take their sweet time figuring out how to crack those helmets and knock out the kryptonians.

Considering that Faora and a bunch of the kryptonians were killed by a plane crash (lol), it stands to reason that Thor and Hulk would just murder them all.

This thread can be closed now.

Ah, suddenly your hate for the movie makes sense. It's because you didn't see the same one. Because, in Man of Steel, Faora and the other Kryptonians were killed by getting sucked into a black hole.

Originally posted by FrothByte
So because Thor only did it once you're assuming that he can't and won't use it in this fight? If he did it once, it's still a viable option for him. Against frost giants, loki, Ironman, he never needed to use it because he was dominating them using only fists and hammer. No need to use more exotic powers. There has only ever been two opponents he couldn't dominate with fists and hammer: Hulk and Destroyer. Hulk he fought inside the hellicarrier, and Destroyer... well you saw what he did to it. Don't you think that once Thor realizes he can't brawl against the Kryptonians that he'll resort to other tactics? He's not dumb you know.

Same with Doom. He might try to brawl, fail at brawling, and do you honestly think he'll still continue to brawl?? One thing the marvel side has as an advantage is that if brawling fails, they have other means to fight. The kryptonians can only brawl.

Besides, Phoenix Jean can simply levitate the kryptonians and they'll be helpless in the air. Then Thor, Doom and the others can take their sweet time figuring out how to crack those helmets and knock out the kryptonians.

No i'm suggesting that since it's hardly ever his "go-to" tactic that it wouldn't be here. Besides we can assume that he had intimate knowledge about the Destroyer that he wouldn't have with the other opponents except for Loki. He knew he needed to get exotic with the Destroyer and knew brwaling was enough for Loki. But against enemies he didn't know, he brawled and never got too exotic. Some every single time he went up against an opponent he knew nothing about he's resorted to brawling and he will do so here. Too bad he'll be KO'd before he realises they are too much.

You make it seem like Doom can take hits from these guys. He can't. He'd be two or three shotted. He's going down quick and wouldn't have the time to adjust he tactics as you seem to think.

Pheonix already died. Faora dashed in and knocked her head off. Besides you keep forgetting that they still need to take out two ships on opposite ends of the Earth. Jean would be killed by the environment or gravity alone.

Originally posted by ares834
Ah, suddenly your hate for the movie makes sense. It's because you didn't see the same one. Because, in Man of Steel, Faora and the other Kryptonians were killed by getting sucked into a black hole.

They were returned to the Phantom Zone. No reason to think they died imo

Originally posted by juggerman
No i'm suggesting that since it's hardly ever his "go-to" tactic that it wouldn't be here. Besides we can assume that he had intimate knowledge about the Destroyer that he wouldn't have with the other opponents except for Loki. He knew he needed to get exotic with the Destroyer and knew brwaling was enough for Loki. But against enemies he didn't know, he brawled and never got too exotic. Some every single time he went up against an opponent he knew nothing about he's resorted to brawling and he will do so here. Too bad he'll be KO'd before he realises they are too much.

You make it seem like Doom can take hits from these guys. He can't. He'd be two or three shotted. He's going down quick and wouldn't have the time to adjust he tactics as you seem to think.

Pheonix already died. Faora dashed in and knocked her head off. Besides you keep forgetting that they still need to take out two ships on opposite ends of the Earth. Jean would be killed by the environment or gravity alone.

It's not a go to tactic, never said it was, just that he can use it if he realizes he can't outbrawl the kryptonians. You talk as if Thor will be KO'd with a few shots, despite the fact that we've never seen Thor KO'd (unless you count his near death experience as a mortal). He has survived the bifrost explosion, a zap from Odin's spear (which disintegrated Frost Giants), a punch from Hulk (twice), and has never been KO'd. Never even been groggy. Most you got was a slightly bloody nose. Same can't be said for the kryptonians. Clark was KO'd by a falling oil rig, Faora was KO'd by a missile against her damaged helmet, Clark knocked himself groggy by crash landing after flight.

As for Jean dying immediately, the combatants aren't just standing right in front of each other that the kryptonians can bum rush her. The kryptonians are already on earth and the Marvel heroes are sent to stop them, meaning the marvel team has some time to plan and strategize. Again, Phoenix can just levitate them and all of them will be helpless from there. You really don't have any counter-argument to this. Once kryptonians are down then the marvel team can take their time on disabling the world engines.

Originally posted by FrothByte
It's not a go to tactic, never said it was, just that he can use it if he realizes he can't outbrawl the kryptonians. You talk as if Thor will be KO'd with a few shots, despite the fact that we've never seen Thor KO'd (unless you count his near death experience as a mortal). He has survived the bifrost explosion, a zap from Odin's spear (which disintegrated Frost Giants), a punch from Hulk (twice), and has never been KO'd. Never even been groggy. Most you got was a slightly bloody nose. Same can't be said for the kryptonians. Clark was KO'd by a falling oil rig, Faora was KO'd by a missile against her damaged helmet, Clark knocked himself groggy by crash landing after flight.

As for Jean dying immediately, the combatants aren't just standing right in front of each other that the kryptonians can bum rush her. The kryptonians are already on earth and the Marvel heroes are sent to stop them, meaning the marvel team has some time to plan and strategize. Again, Phoenix can just levitate them and all of them will be helpless from there. You really don't have any counter-argument to this. Once kryptonians are down then the marvel team can take their time on disabling the world engines.

Thor was not hit by beings as stong as these. Bifrost and Odin's spear have magical properties about them and aren't just a physical force. Thor feared falling to his death. A supersonic punch would likely pack more force than this impact. Several equals a dead thunder god any way you slice it.

Oil rig wasn't a KO and Clark wasn't groggy when he fell(i assume you meant when he was learning to fly)

Again you expect your team to just act out of character when it suits you. Jean doesn't fight in this manner. And the Kryptonians aren't all just standing in a lump waiting to be hit either. The team has two goals, the first of which splits them up. Jean would either be killed by the atmosphere(poision air+crushing gravity) or she would be kill right afterwards by several enraged Kryptonians.

You act as if the Kryptonians would just sit around while their machines were being destroyed and then continue sitting around while the Marvel team regroups and one again sit around waiting for the fight to be brought to them. Faora jumped into action against the humans attacking their ship and would do the same here. So would the others and they would plot and plan as well. They would just hold still waiting to be picked up like you seem to believe. The would be jumping all over the place bringing down the Marvel team. They also have fast ships with fire power more than powerful enough to take out anything the Marvel team has.

Originally posted by juggerman
Thor was not hit by beings as stong as these. Bifrost and Odin's spear have magical properties about them and aren't just a physical force. Thor feared falling to his death. A supersonic punch would likely pack more force than this impact. Several equals a dead thunder god any way you slice it.

Oil rig wasn't a KO and Clark wasn't groggy when he fell(i assume you meant when he was learning to fly)

Again you expect your team to just act out of character when it suits you. Jean doesn't fight in this manner. And the Kryptonians aren't all just standing in a lump waiting to be hit either. The team has two goals, the first of which splits them up. Jean would either be killed by the atmosphere(poision air+crushing gravity) or she would be kill right afterwards by several enraged Kryptonians.

You act as if the Kryptonians would just sit around while their machines were being destroyed and then continue sitting around while the Marvel team regroups and one again sit around waiting for the fight to be brought to them. Faora jumped into action against the humans attacking their ship and would do the same here. So would the others and they would plot and plan as well. They would just hold still waiting to be picked up like you seem to believe. The would be jumping all over the place bringing down the Marvel team. They also have fast ships with fire power more than powerful enough to take out anything the Marvel team has.

Why would they split up first and stop the world engines before taking out the kryptonians? THat would make them dumb. You're acting like the marvel team just stands there and allows the kryptonians to hit them. Many on the Marvel team can fly, kryptonians will have a hard time hitting them then. What you are trying to do, my friend, is make the Marvel team fight stupidly. I'm not trying to make them fight out of character, I'm just trying to make them fight not stupidly, as you're trying to do. You seem to think all of the Marvel team will simply try to brawl. The Marvel team has other options, and everytime I mention these other options you end up resorting to "that's out of character". Thor already has proven that he can use a whirlwind to keep a character off the ground as he finishes him off. Jean already showed that she can levitate characters while she finishes them off (Prof. X). Yet when I cite these same examples you just say "it's out of character".

It can't be out of character because they've already done them before.

If Clark wasn't knocked out by the falling rig, then what was he doing floating in the sea with eyes closed for a long time? Sun bathing?

You can claim that the kryptonians can deliver punches stronger than Hulk, but you don't really have proof of that. Thor has not been knocked out, ever. We don't even see him get knocked out by his fall. So you assuming that he'll get knocked out by a punch from Faora is simply assumption.