Galen Marek & Rahm Kota vs Count Dooku & Darth Maul

Started by Ziggystardust6 pages
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I'd ask that you not tarnish this sacred word with your foul breath.

If you wish to respond to our plalaver, perhaps you can tell me why Flailen wins here, or at least why he shouldn't be scaled off nameless opponents when the best achievements of his adversaries are as follows :

Rham Kota - Getting beaten by Boba Fett
Kazdan Paratus - nothing
Shaak Ti - Getting stomped and hospitalised by Grievous
Darth Desolus Simulation - Getting beaten by Padawans
Maris Brood - Nothing
Vader - Stalemating Old Ben Kenobi

Originally posted by MythLord
Wait, what if, the thousand Jedi he slaughtered were unimpressive padawans or fodder and maybe, just maybe(now hear me out on this) he did it with his amazing Sith army, or a couple after a couple ala Meetra Surik or Tulak Hord?

In which case, if he can only slaughter the really unimpressive padawans, a top tier padawan can beat him. 👆

But it also included the Jedi Council, so yeh.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
If you wish to respond to our plalaver, perhaps you can tell me why Flailen wins here, or at least why he shouldn't be scaled off nameless opponents when the best achievements of his adversaries are as follows :

Rham Kota - Getting beaten by Boba Fett
Kazdan Paratus - nothing
Shaak Ti - Getting stomped and hospitalised by Grievous
Darth Desolus Simulation - Getting beaten by Padawans
Maris Brood - Nothing
Vader - Stalemating Old Ben Kenobi

Why is stalemating Ben Kenobi unimpressive?

Syndi, how old are you?

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
If you wish to respond to our plalaver, perhaps you can tell me why Flailen wins here, or at least why he shouldn't be scaled off nameless opponents when the best achievements of his adversaries are as follows :

Rham Kota - Getting beaten by Boba Fett
Kazdan Paratus - nothing
Shaak Ti - Getting stomped and hospitalised by Grievous
Darth Desolus Simulation - Getting beaten by Padawans
Maris Brood - Nothing
Vader - Stalemating Old Ben Kenobi

Galen wins here because his Force feats and scaling place him far above Maul and Dooku as a force user and he's already shown he's capable of matching or exceeding someone on Dooku's level as a lightsaber combatant.

He can be scaled off those opponents but those opponents positions are solely dictated on their performance again Galen since that performance is their only showing.

You have to understand that listing a character's worst showing or trying to paint them out to be bad can be done to literally any character.

Vader? He slipped on his severed arm.

Sidious? He got thrown down a shaft by a one armed dying man.

Maul? He couldn't hit a man lying on the floor in front of him.

Dooku? He was captured by pirates.

And does that mean all of the characters I mentioned above are terrible combatants?

I was going to answer this rhetorically but I want to hear your response just to get a good chuckle.

Originally posted by Azronger
Syndi, how old are you?

Turned 20 about 2 weeks ago.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Turned 20 about 2 weeks ago.
You're the same age as me now 😄

Originally posted by Jmanghan
I dont believe AOTC Anakin is > 1000 Fodder Padawans.

At the same time, no. But he can take on group after group of them, with the aid of an army.

Originally posted by MythLord
At the same time, no. But he can take on group after group of them, with the aid of an army.
I don't think he took his army everywhere he went.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Turned 20 about 2 weeks ago.

That's kinda hard to believe, given the way you start crying over fictional characters.

Originally posted by Azronger
That's kinda hard to believe, given the way you start crying over fictional characters.
...You're hypocritical asf.

Link me to a thread where I have started randomly insulting someone for their opinions.

Originally posted by Azronger
That's kinda hard to believe, given the way you start crying over fictional characters.

Given how defensive you get over anybody expressing disbelief at your stances I can understand your constant need to project. 🙂

Originally posted by Azronger
Link me to a thread where I have started randomly insulting someone for their opinions.

Learn to take a like you take a dick or get off KMC. Nobody's going to hold back to spare your wittle feewings.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
I don't think he took his army everywhere he went.

So if you have an army, and you're about to fight a massive horde of lightsaber wielding beings... you wouldn't take that army with you?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
[B]Galen wins here because his Force feats and scaling place him far above Maul and Dooku

The scaling stratum of Force feats based around telekinesis on inanimate objects or displays of the Force outside of combat, are rarely good indications of well someone will perform during combat, against another Force wielder. In the case of Dooku, we don't really have a defined limit to how much he can "bench press" with the Force. Yet his capabilities might well exceed Galen if the Korriban-Cruiser feat can be clarified. On top of that point, Galen has demonstrated far less precision than Dooku on any given day when it comes to direct telekinesis on other Force users. The Count's ability to sweep aside powerful foes while engaging even more powerful individuals is leaps ahead of Whailen's, someone who can't even penetrate the Force shields of am Imperial Shadow Guard. Heh. But more to the point, Dooku's foes simply have more going for them via both feat and accolade, and they exist in an arena where powerful Force users are in somewhat abundance, and not simply scraps escaping a grand purge.

and he's already shown he's capable of matching or exceeding someone on Dooku's level as a lightsaber combatant.

Lightsaber combat is tricky to define across era's, usually some arbitrary ruling can be salvaged from detailed accolades, but in the case of Dooku and Vader, there's a very direct comparison to be made, and perhaps more than just one. It's simple, Vader could not breach the guard of an old and decrepit Ben Kenobi, while Dooku was doing fine contending with / beating Obi Wan in his prime, and with Anakin breathing down his neck too. The other case is this, Dooku handily beat Anakin in Attack of the Clones, someone who exceeds ROTJ Luke in both potential and training, while Vader in his prime, was matched by the latter an unable to pierce his Force guard in ESB.

He can be scaled off those opponents but those opponents positions are solely dictated on their performance again Galen since that performance is their only showing.

You need to look up the definition of circular logic, and try and find out why it applies here.

You have to understand that listing a character's worst showing or trying to paint them out to be bad can be done to literally any character.

Vader? He slipped on his severed arm.

Sidious? He got thrown down a shaft by a one armed dying man.

Maul? He couldn't hit a man lying on the floor in front of him.

Dooku? He was captured by pirates.

And does that mean all of the characters I mentioned above are terrible combatants?

I was going to answer this rhetorically but I want to hear your response just to get a good chuckle.

Well I don't have to answer for Vader, if you want to shoot yourself in the foot by talking down Galen's only worthy trophy, than it serves me all the better. Otherwise, my response to you is this : what does it tell you when the only lowball-esq feats of the three characters mentioned, are taken from mediums where Force itself is depicted to be more subtle, where the writers have illicitly stated their desire to scale things back? An then you have the Force Unleashed, where the polar opposite is the case, and yet, Galen still gets slapped by randomers, for a reason maybe?

Originally posted by MythLord
So if you have an army, and you're about to fight a massive horde of lightsaber wielding beings... you wouldn't take that army with you?
He didn't know he was about to be ambushed tho. Of course I would, but Desolous has personally killed at least a thousand Jedi of his own hand.

Originally posted by Azronger
Link me to a thread where I have started randomly insulting someone for their opinions.
Link me to a thread where Syn has done that? 😬

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
The scaling stratum of Force feats based around telekinesis on inanimate objects or displays of the Force outside of combat, are rarely good indications of well someone will perform during combat, against another Force wielder. In the case of Dooku, we don't really have a defined limit to how much he can "bench press" with the Force. Yet his capabilities might well exceed Galen if the Korriban-Cruiser feat can be clarified. On top of that point, Galen has demonstrated far less precision than Dooku on any given day when it comes to direct telekinesis on other Force users. The Count's ability to sweep aside powerful foes while engaging even more powerful individuals is leaps ahead of Whailen's, someone who can't even penetrate the Force shields of am Imperial Shadow Guard. Heh. But more to the point, Dooku's foes simply have more going for them via both feat and accolade, and they exist in an arena where powerful Force users are in somewhat abundance, and not simply scraps escaping a grand purge.

Lightsaber combat is tricky to define across era's, usually some arbitrary ruling can be salvaged from detailed accolades, but in the case of Dooku and Vader, there's a very direct comparison to be made, and perhaps more than just one. It's simple, Vader could not breach the guard of an old and decrepit Ben Kenobi, while Dooku was doing fine contending with / beating Obi Wan in his prime, and with Anakin breathing down his neck too. The other case is this, Dooku handily beat Anakin in Attack of the Clones, someone who exceeds ROTJ Luke in both potential and training, while Vader in his prime, was matched by the latter an unable to pierce his Force guard in ESB.

You need to look up the definition of circular logic, and try and find out why it applies here.

Well I don't have to answer for Vader, if you want to shoot yourself in the foot by talking down Galen's only worthy trophy, than it serves me all the better. Otherwise, my response to you is this : what does it tell you when the only lowball-esq feats of the three characters mentioned, are taken from mediums where Force itself is depicted to be more subtle, where the writers have illicitly stated their desire to scale things back? An then you have the Force Unleashed, where the polar opposite is the case, and yet, Galen still gets slapped by randomers, for a reason maybe?

1. I'm referring to his scaling off of his domination of opponents like Vader and ability to match opponents like Sidious.

Dooku's feat would still not compare to matching Sidious as we've been actively shown Sidious is capable of choking him from across the Galaxy.

I'd ask what you're referring to in regards to Dooku that puts him above Galen in control given it's been shown that Galen has telekinetically triggered explosives and force pushed sub lightspeed fighters midflight ( TIE's ).

Can you please elaborate here? As far as I'm aware Galen has never attempted to penetrate the Force defenses of a shadow guard and failed. Unless you're just assuming he can't because he didn't. 🙂

Given Galen beat an opponents confirmed to be superior to the one that beat Dooku you'd be mistaken in such an assumption.

2. Vader has been confirmed to be more powerful then Anakin and is more experienced and skill. It is true Vader didn't defeat Ben during the time that they had fought but that does not mean he was incapable of doing so had the fight gone on for a longer period. This doesn't have any bearing on RotS Obi Wan's capabilities however as Ben is confirmed to be more powerful then his RotS self though like you said he's logically atrophied in skill and physical ability. As for your Luke/Anakin comparison we know that Force potential does not always scale to greater growth as is clear if we compare someone like Galen and Anakin where Galen grows from stalemating Rahm to contending with Sidious and Anakin grows from losing to Dooku to contending with Dooku throughout the Clone Wars.

3. Circular reasoning: (Latin: circulus in probando, "circle in proving"; also known as circular logic) is a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end with. The components of a circular argument are often logically valid because if the premises are true, the conclusion must be true.

Seems as if it's the latter case here given an opponent cannot be scaled as a combatant except off their accolades and showings and given they have none except for their performance against Galen that's the only thing they can be judged off of.

4. Who said that was those characters only low showings in the mythos? I'm saying that using low showings for any character to invalidate them is not an unbiased or logical way to assess said characters.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
He didn't know he was about to be ambushed tho. Of course I would, but Desolous has personally killed at least a thousand Jedi of his own hand.

Did a thousand Jedi just suddenly ambush him? And they can ambush him if he had an army near him.